What makes a great game of football

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Partridge

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Boooooring! None wants to see that sh*t.
Check out this quality game from last year.
Was way better cause it was close.
View attachment 1054792
Yeah one rule change isn't going to make much difference. Coaches have taken over the tactics and unless they all decide they want to see forty goals a game it isn't changing.

I liked how the AFL in their infinite wisdom decreed that 6-6-6 was going to open everything up. We ended up with the lowest scoring season in 50 years.

Their insight knows no bounds.
 

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Spazz Cat

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Yeah one rule change isn't going to make much difference. Coaches have taken over the tactics and unless they all decide they want to see forty goals a game it isn't changing.

I liked how the AFL in their infinite wisdom decreed that 6-6-6 was going to open everything up. We ended up with the lowest scoring season in 50 years.

Their insight knows no bounds.
It's funny. The rule that slows the game down the most. The idiotic ruck nomination they have no plans on changing.
 

kickazz

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1. Individual skills over a well-executed plan.

A plan working out can be good to watch - especially if it's a one-off or special case (think Footscray v Essendon in 2000). But I loved those Geelong Hawthorn games of the 2010s (and a bit earlier) where the last quarter became about taking risks, kicking to contests, making mistakes and trying again.

2. Momentum shifts over close all day.

Games that are close all day - I dunno, it seems the crowd never gets out of second gear, you don't get those moments where you think you might be pulling away so can really cheer loud; likewise, you don't get any significant coming from behind that has a similar effect on crowd excitement. Think 2012 Grand Final vs 2009 Grand Final.

3. A game where all skills get a chance to shine

-great goals, marks, run-down tackles, spoils, smothers, ruckwork. Overcoached games that emphasise one or two of these and seek to nullify the others are less watchable.
 

ATSAM

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Your right! This is best i could find. I used to have the same problem living up North.
Missed out on some great games.
Thanks for posting that. Beautiful skilled, free flowing, fast footy. Players always there, always someone to pass the ball to, get into trouble just handball off.
That is good footy. That was an amazing team. But it was also the Geelong way. What has happened to it.
 

goyoucatters

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Thanks for posting that. Beautiful skilled, free flowing, fast footy. Players always there, always someone to pass the ball to, get into trouble just handball off.
That is good footy. That was an amazing team. But it was also the Geelong way. What has happened to it.
Well, it got massively found out (to the tune of 81 points in just over a half of football) in the 2010 PF. And then other teams went from there on working out better and better systems to smother truly attacking footy. And football has never been the same aesthetically since.
 
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you pick one

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Thanks for posting that. Beautiful skilled, free flowing, fast footy. Players always there, always someone to pass the ball to, get into trouble just handball off.
That is good footy. That was an amazing team. But it was also the Geelong way. What has happened to it.
Scott was given the top job at Geelong on his pledge to develop a more defensive approach to the Cats on that no one can dispute he has delivered.
 

Vdubs

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Well, it got massively found out (to the tune of 81 points in just over a half of football) in the 2010 PF. And then other teams went from there on working out better and better systems to smother truly attacking footy. And football has never been the same aesthetically since.
Yet less than 12m later we smashed that team by over 100 points, on our way to a beautiful premiership, after just having obliterated Melbourne a week or so before, nearing another record score...
Scott was given the top job at Geelong on his pledge to develop a more defensive approach to the Cats on that no one can dispute he has delivered.
And the coach was C Scott.
 

Vdubs

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Thanks for posting that. Beautiful skilled, free flowing, fast footy. Players always there, always someone to pass the ball to, get into trouble just handball off.
That is good footy. That was an amazing team. But it was also the Geelong way. What has happened to it.
We gradually lost the best list ever at Geelong FC.
3 players remain from the 11 flag, 1 from the 07 flag.
Those Immortals are irreplaceable, and the game has changed.
 

goyoucatters

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Yet less than 12m later we smashed that team by over 100 points, on our way to a beautiful premiership, after just having obliterated Melbourne a week or so before, nearing another record score...

And the coach was C Scott.
Both of those games were not indicative of where footy was truly heading, though. The 2011 season overall (alongside the 2010 PF debacle) gave an indication that our style of '07-'10 could no longer take the competition by storm. We had to adapt, as we did in 2011, and as we have continued to strive to do since then.

In the end, it's clear that football like we played back in the glory years is not sustainable or even possible with the current defensive structures in place. And, like you, I don't blame Chris Scott too much for all of that. There's coaches who have set up systems far less attacking (as indicated by their 'points for' column every season) than our current coach.

To blame him for defensive football when we have continued to win lots of games and kick more goals than just about everyone else for years on end is further evidence of the confirmation bias that masquerades as objective opinion around here.
 
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Spazz Cat

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Both of those games were not indicative of where footy was truly heading, though. The 2011 season overall (alongside the 2010 PF debacle) gave an indication that our style of '07-'10 could no longer take the competition by storm. We had to adapt, as we did in 2011, and as we have continued to strive to do since then.

In the end, it's clear that football like we played back in the glory years is not sustainable or even possible with the current defensive structures in place. And, like you, I don't blame Chris Scott too much for all of that. There's coaches who have set up systems far less attacking (as indicated by their 'points for' column every season) than our current coach.

To blame him for defensive football when we continue to win lots of games and kick more goals than just about everyone for years on end is further evidence of the confirmation bias that masquerades as objective opinion around here.
To be fair footy was ultra defensive before our great era. Possibly more so.
It was just this bizarre awesome thing that came out of nowhere. Then went away.
 

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goyoucatters

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To be fair footy was ultra defensive before our great era. Possibly more so.
It was just this bizarre awesome thing that came out of nowhere. Then went away.
Even the stats support the assertion that footy is more defensive now than in the early days of the flood, though.
Scores are through the floor and show no sign of improving any time soon.

In the first 16 rounds of 2020, the average score was 60.6 points per game. 2020 football is being played with shorter quarters, so adjusting to 2019 game length brings this up to 72.9 points per game.

72.9 points is down from 80.4 in 2019, and more than 20 points less than the highest of the last decade, 93 points in 2011. By historical comparison, the last time the average score was under 73 points was 1964.
 

Spazz Cat

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Even the stats support the assertion that footy is more defensive now than in the early days of the flood, though.
Scores are through the floor and show no sign of improving any time soon.



True. I was probably focusing on the 05 & 06 grand finals too much
 

goyoucatters

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To be fair footy was ultra defensive before our great era. Possibly more so.
It was just this bizarre awesome thing that came out of nowhere. Then went away.
More info from the same article further supports the assertion that footy is more defensive than ever...

Since the mid-2000s, greater emphasis has been placed on coaching defensive systems, resulting in increased difficulty of ball movement.

In 2007, the best team at defending the opposition moving the length of the ground, the Sydney Swans, would allow 30.7% of opposition Rebound 50s to become Inside 50s.

By 2012, 30.7% would rank 15th, with the best now at 18.3% (Fremantle).

By 2019, 30.7% would rank 18th and be more than 4% worse than 17th. The equal no.1 teams at preventing full ground ball movement in 2019, North Melbourne and Hawthorn, conceded Inside 50s from just 16.7% of their opposition’s Rebound 50s.
 

Goggin Our Best

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Both of those games were not indicative of where footy was truly heading, though. The 2011 season overall (alongside the 2010 PF debacle) gave an indication that our style of '07-'10 could no longer take the competition by storm. We had to adapt, as we did in 2011, and as we have continued to strive to do since then.

In the end, it's clear that football like we played back in the glory years is not sustainable or even possible with the current defensive structures in place. And, like you, I don't blame Chris Scott too much for all of that. There's coaches who have set up systems far less attacking (as indicated by their 'points for' column every season) than our current coach.

To blame him for defensive football when we have continued to win lots of games and kick more goals than just about everyone else for years on end is further evidence of the confirmation bias that masquerades as objective opinion around here.
Surely it comes down to what talent youve got - current Geel team have done well to get where they have got - with the players they have got - Geel have got plenty of ordinary players - and really aernt a patch on the 07-13 teams

Current reigning premiers Richmond smash your defensive theory to smithereens

I dont see Rich as a defensive side at all ( sure they know when to defend when neccessary ) but their half back line is a very dangerous rebounding line - blokes like Houli and Vaustin - intercepting marking - and BH a brilliant kick - and look at the game at the Gold Coast - Grimes was taking screamers on the last line of the backline - i wouldnt call that a defensive mindset

Richmond if they are 6 pts or 66pts in front - their style or thought process doesnt change - its lets keep attacking and kicking goals - you dont see them waxing on the half back line killing time - vary rarely .

If Geel had better players - they could probably bring in a more attacking game plan - look at the current lot re defenders - Kol Occonor and Jack Henry - contrast them to Mackie and Wojo - who both loved to bounce the ball multiple times and run - and Mackie kicked some terrific goals on the run -particularly against Haw in that 11 winning game sequence .
 

goyoucatters

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Surely it comes down to what talent youve got - current Geel team have done well to get where they have got - with the players they have got - Geel have got plenty of ordinary players - and really aernt a patch on the 07-13 teams

Current reigning premiers Richmond smash your defensive theory to smithereens

I dont see Rich as a defensive side at all ( sure they know when to defend when neccessary ) but their half back line is a very dangerous rebounding line - blokes like Houli and Vaustin - intercepting marking - and BH a brilliant kick - and look at the game at the Gold Coast - Grimes was taking screamers on the last line of the backline - i wouldnt call that a defensive mindset

Richmond if they are 6 pts or 66pts in front - their style or thought process doesnt change - its lets keep attacking and kicking goals - you dont see them waxing on the half back line killing time - vary rarely .

If Geel had better players - they could probably bring in a more attacking game plan - look at the current lot re defenders - Kol Occonor and Jack Henry - contrast them to Mackie and Wojo - who both loved to bounce the ball multiple times and run - and Mackie kicked some terrific goals on the run -particularly against Haw in that 11 winning game sequence .
Don't disagree about the quality of players at the Cattery now being vastly different. But I certainly disagree about Richmond not being a defensive side. Their entire game plan is built on strangling the opposition's ball movement, and then bashing the ball forward at breakneck speed by whatever means possible. I acknowledge that Houli is a very good user off their half-back line. But the others you mention are brilliant interceptors and merely serviceable players when it comes to disposing of the football.

The Tigers don't actually set out with an incredibly attacking mindset. It's why they're generally quite comfortable to concede first possession and then harass their opponents out of it and smash them on the break. They ranked 16th for clearance differential in 2020 (Cats ranked 2nd).

Very effective on the counter-attack? Most certainly. Actually primarily an attacking unit, though? Certainly not in my opinion.
 
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Partridge

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Well, it got massively found out (to the tune of 81 points in just over a half of football) in the 2010 PF. And then other teams went from there on working out better and better systems to smother truly attacking footy. And football has never been the same aesthetically since.
Except the following year we had 150+ point wins in successive weeks; Rounds 19 and 20 versus Melbourne and Gold Coast. Then as mentioned followed up by a 96-point trouncing of the same Collingwood team the week before the finals.
 

ATSAM

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I thought it was his plan to gradually turnover the champion list, based on 2010 ending. 2011 altered it a bit.
JUst like Ayres was given the job to change the Blight era. And look where that went. Scott did jag one premiership though, thanks to the players. Ayres just missed out on a chance thanks to Umpires
 

goyoucatters

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Except the following year we had 150+ point wins in successive weeks; Rounds 19 and 20 versus Melbourne and Gold Coast. Then as mentioned followed up by a 96-point trouncing of the same Collingwood team the week before the finals.
Surely nobody is suggesting that the wins against Melbourne and Gold Coast proved that the meaningful competition across the league wasn't getting far better at containing attacking football by 2011. Both clubs were absolute laughing stocks of the AFL at the time.

As for the Collingwood game, it was certainly an incredible demolition. But hardly indicative of a yawning chasm between the sides in the objective sense. As the GF a few weeks later revealed, the teams were actually very well matched, and arresting their momentum in the second quarter proved crucial to keeping us in that game.

There are the odd exceptions, like the games you mention above. But overall it seems ridiculous to me to suggest that the game hasn't become far more defensive (and teams far more effective defensively) over recent years. The scoring downturn over numerous seasons now objectively bears out the observation of a reliance of all clubs on a predominantly defensive mindset.

And the proposition that our coach has played a huge role in lurching in this direction just doesn't hold up, given our position on the 'points for' ladder over every year of his tenure.

2011 1st
2012 7th
2013 2nd
2014 6th
2015 9th
2016 3rd
2017 5th
2018 4th
2019 3rd
2020 1st


In the end, averaging fourth on points scored over the 10 years is hardly grounds for proposing that our coach is the key player in driving a defensive mentality across the comp.
 

Goggin Our Best

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The Tigers don't actually set out with an incredibly attacking mindset. It's why they're generally quite comfortable to concede first possession and then harass their opponents out of it and smash them on the break. They ranked 16th for clearance differential in 2020 (Cats ranked 2nd).

Very effective on the counter-attack? Most certainly. Actually primarily an attacking unit, though? Certainly not in my opinion.
You make some good general points

However re the bolded - im pretty sure in the - definitely the PF - maybe the GF as well - or the final before the PF - Richmond won the clearances - . An area where say the opposition maybe could get a slight advantage - they turned that on their ear and won them - made them even harder to beat .

To beat Rich you obviously have to play the entire game - they are like a boxer who continually throws punches - not someone who just hangs on and jabs and wastes a stack of the time - the Cats love opponents who do the latter
 

goyoucatters

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You make some good general points

However re the bolded - im pretty sure in the - definitely the PF - maybe the GF as well - or the final before the PF - Richmond won the clearances - . An area where say the opposition maybe could get a slight advantage - they turned that on their ear and won them - made them even harder to beat .

To beat Rich you obviously have to play the entire game - they are like a boxer who continually throws punches - not someone who just hangs on and jabs and wastes a stack of the time - the Cats love opponents who do the latter
You are right about this.

Tigers won the clearances 40-36 in the GF. And 41-29 in the PF. Against the two teams that were highest ranked for clearances across the whole season. I agree with you that this made a huge difference, where they turned an area that was normally a 'weakness' of theirs into a real strength. And robbed their opposition of one of their real strengths at the same time.

I don't have a breakdown of the numbers. But I seriously suspect we were up on clearances at half-time in the GF. And then got belted in this area after the long break, resulting in a narrow loss in the overall stat over the course of the game. For all of Dusty's brilliance, this was another really significant factor in our demise on the night in my view.

In the end, this current Tigers team wins a lot of games even when they lose the clearances. Surely their winning percentage grows even stronger when they actually win the clearances as well. So when one of their key vulnerabilities actually became a winner for them, we were always going to be struggling to overcome the disadvantage to us that resulted.
 

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