What makes a great game of football

[geelong_crazy26]

This is all just my take. Im hardly an expert.
But Ross Lyon was a brilliant coach. But he never addressed his one major failing.
Not being able to score quickly.
It was brilliant, but couldn't win.
Because it's like being the best boxer in the world but having a glass jaw.
Destined to fail against the best.
Yeah we deserved another one. At least a back to back anyway.
Outplayed and outcoached in 08 unfortunately, didn't go our way in 13.

he definitely was a fantastic coach, we just had a champion team... anyone else I think they would have won. They slipped a bit in 2010.

Strange you say outcoached in 08 but not 10 which was just as bad IMO.

I honestly think that geelong team should have won 5 flags and be sitting as the undisputed no 1... they were that good a side. The fact Richmond have equal flags and so do that hawks shows a huge injustice given the comparative talents

 

[catscollector]

did Brisbane need a wake up call to win 3 flags in a row?? How about hawthorn with their triple peat?? Richmond have now gone back to back and history will say they are as good a premiership team as ours was... yet we know that simply isn’t true.

if your good enough you don’t need wake up calls, wake up calls are excuses for poor execution or strategy, nothing more.

if we changed the game plan in 2008 and 2009 we should have comfortably won like we did in 2011

Brisbane had the luxury of playing Mick Malthouse's Colliwobbles on back2back occasions. There was no alternate game plan going in to try and combat the might of Brisbane. They played lesser quality than what Geelong did in 2008 against arguably the greatest coach in VFL/AFL history.
Had Geelong's super team of 07 played against that Collingwood team in the early 00's, I think we wallop them both times.

Hawthorn going on to win 3 in a row in later years was proof of just how good of an organization they were.

Richmond? They should not even be in the same discussion as Brisbane, Geelong or Hawthorn. Lonergan, Scarlett, Milburn, Taylor would have run rings around Riewoldt and Lynch.
Even Milburn was a better player than Vlastuin.

 

[Spazz Cat]

he definitely was a fantastic coach, we just had a champion team... anyone else I think they would have won. They slipped a bit in 2010.

Strange you say outcoached in 08 but not 10 which was just as bad IMO.

I honestly think that geelong team should have won 5 flags and be sitting as the undisputed no 1... they were that good a side. The fact Richmond have equal flags and so do that hawks shows a huge injustice given the comparative talents

Thought Saints had a great list. We both started at the same and they were rated higher and with good reason.
Well we were outcoached in 10 I guess. But were outcoched and outplayed by the better teams of that year in the finals. Way it goes.
Different to 08.
If anyone should be whinging its the Saints. Had talent, but got 2 ego maniac coaches in a row and wasted it.
Major failure at board level.

 

[catscollector]

Thought Saints had a great list. We both started at the same and they were rated higher and with good reason.
Well we were outcoached in 10 I guess. But were outcoched and outplayed by the better teams of that year in the finals. Way it goes.
Different to 08.
If anyone should be whinging its the Saints. Had talent, but got 2 ego maniac coaches in a row and wasted it.
Major failure at board level.

They had a pretty short back line and it always meant power forwards could break away against them. Similarly to what Hawthorn were before they went out and brought in Brian Lake.
Gilbert, while tall was hardly a solid key defender. Was more like a Mackie type.
It was only Max Hudghton who could stop some of key forwards at the time.

Most teams back then (07-11) had at least two KPD's 193cm/95kg+. It's why Fremantle were so tough to score against. They had an abudnace of key defenders to prevent the likes of Podsiadly, Hawkins from kicking a bag against them.

 

[Partridge]

This is all just my take. Im hardly an expert.
But Ross Lyon was a brilliant coach. But he never addressed his one major failing.
Not being able to score quickly.
It was brilliant, but couldn't win.
Because it's like being the best boxer in the world but having a glass jaw.
Destined to fail against the best.
Yeah we deserved another one. At least a back to back anyway.
Outplayed and outcoached in 08 unfortunately, didn't go our way in 13.

That's it. And because of that, the opposition could be dominated in general play but not put away on the scoreboard. Came back to bit them twice.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Brisbane had the luxury of playing Mick Malthouse's Colliwobbles on back2back occasions. There was no alternate game plan going in to try and combat the might of Brisbane. They played lesser quality than what Geelong did in 2008 against arguably the greatest coach in VFL/AFL history.
Had Geelong's super team of 07 played against that Collingwood team in the early 00's, I think we wallop them both times.

Hawthorn going on to win 3 in a row in later years was proof of just how good of an organization they were.

Richmond? They should not even be in the same discussion as Brisbane, Geelong or Hawthorn. Lonergan, Scarlett, Milburn, Taylor would have run rings around Riewoldt and Lynch.
Even Milburn was a better player than Vlastuin.

but people will talk about geelong and Richmond in the same light because the results show they won 3 as well... I don’t disagree that we had tougher opponents, we had to go through two 20-2 sides to win two of our flags. Nobody else has done that.

that geelong team deserved at least another flag, I would say two more and be sitting as the undisputed kings. Tactically we just got outcoached in both 08 and 10 which is were I look back with regret and see it as an unfulfilled period.

to give you a silly idea, it feels a bit like annakin skywalker being cut down into Vader and having his potential reduced. Still reached great heights, but not the fullest of their potentials

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Thought Saints had a great list. We both started at the same and they were rated higher and with good reason.
Well we were outcoached in 10 I guess. But were outcoched and outplayed by the better teams of that year in the finals. Way it goes.
Different to 08.
If anyone should be whinging its the Saints. Had talent, but got 2 ego maniac coaches in a row and wasted it.
Major failure at board level.

I don’t think st kilda or collingwood were better teams in 2010, just better coached. I can’t on any level believe they were better at all than us. That geelong team is the greatest to ever play football and hearing debates about who’s better Richmond or geelong... well that’s just a sad thing and an injustice to the game

 

[Spazz Cat]

but people will talk about geelong and Richmond in the same light because the results show they won 3 as well... I don’t disagree that we had tougher opponents, we had to go through two 20-2 sides to win two of our flags. Nobody else has done that.

that geelong team deserved at least another flag, I would say two more and be sitting as the undisputed kings. Tactically we just got outcoached in both 08 and 10 which is were I look back with regret and see it as an unfulfilled period.

to give you a silly idea, it feels a bit like annakin skywalker being cut down into Vader and having his potential reduced. Still reached great heights, but not the fullest of their potentials

Thing is though, who goes looking through record books looking at who won flags and judging them? It doesn't really happen.
We're going to go down as playing the best footy ever seen.
That's not a bad legacy. Something to be proud of.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I don’t think st kilda or collingwood were better teams in 2010, just better coached. I can’t on any level believe they were better at all than us. That geelong team is the greatest to ever play football and hearing debates about who’s better Richmond or geelong... well that’s just a sad thing and an injustice to the game

Way it goes. Players can't play forever. And the standard gets lower.
Richmond will be complaining in 20 years that a team even worse than them won 4 flags.
I dunno, we were losing that Pies game by like 80 points at one stage. 80 points aint just coaching. It was their year.

 

[Partridge]

Way it goes. Players can't play forever. And the standard gets lower.
Richmond will be complaining in 20 years that a team even worse than them won 4 flags.
I dunno, we were losing that Pies game by like 80 points at one stage. 80 points aint just coaching. It was their year.

It was. They were clearly the best team by September, and St.Kilda had us as well. It wasn't a coincidence our record against those two teams was 1-4 that season. It happens. Every year is different.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

I don’t think st kilda or collingwood were better teams in 2010, just better coached. I can’t on any level believe they were better at all than us. That geelong team is the greatest to ever play football and hearing debates about who’s better Richmond or geelong... well that’s just a sad thing and an injustice to the game

I think you are half right and half wrong - re 2010

I think you have got a valid reasonable argument that the Cats were better than StKilda in 2010 - in that qualifying which Geel lost by less than a goal to Saints - i think the inside 50s in the last qtr were something like 19 to 1 Geelongs way - a certainty beaten the Cats that night

But i totally disagree that Geel were somehow better than Coll in 2010 - in that PF they obliterated Geel ( 81pts up at one stage ) with unstoppable football - it was like watching the West Indies in their heyday ( 70/80s ) with their 4 terrifying 4 fast bowlers skittling some side for about 60 or 70 in the 1st innings - just destroyed them - wiped them off the park - thats exactly what happened in the 10 PF

You say Geel could have won extra flags ( agree about 2013 ) but what about Coll - premiers in 10 - sitting on top of the ladder in 2011 - theve got a coach ( and i dont care who the coach was - and what strengths and weaknesses hes got ) going for back to back flags - and they have got that stupid handover at the end of the year - they should have said midway through 2011 - look circumstances have changed - there will be no handover at end of 2011 - we are just totally focussed on winning the 11 flag - that would have knocked all the circus shitt ( which followed ) on the head

 

[Partridge]

But i totally disagree that Geel were somehow better than Coll in 2010 - in that PF they obliterated Geel ( 81pts up at one stage ) with unstoppable football - it was like watching the West Indies in their heyday ( 70/80s ) with their 4 terrifying 4 fast bowlers skittling some side for about 60 or 70 in the 1st innings - just destroyed them - wiped them off the park - thats exactly what happened in the 10 PF

It wasn't just the Prelim though. They comfortably beat us in Round 19 before the finals, and when we played St.Kilda were kept goalless in the second half and scoreless in the third quarter. So it's not a fluke that those sides reached the Grand final and we didn't.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Way it goes. Players can't play forever. And the standard gets lower.
Richmond will be complaining in 20 years that a team even worse than them won 4 flags.
I dunno, we were losing that Pies game by like 80 points at one stage. 80 points aint just coaching. It was their year.

I know you disagree largely but essentially the exact same playing group played in the grand final 12 months later except we lost ablett who of cause was a massive loss to our side, and we beat them by six goals. You could also argue they were a better team in 2011 only losing to us and winning more games.

What essentially changed was our game plan changed. In particular probably our ball movement and the way we defended the entire ground and not just the corridor.

in that prelim even looking at the highlights, collingwood ran the ball from the back half to the forward line down the wing essentially without a single bit of pressure. It was embarrassing a little.

it became known that geelong defended the corridor and if you moved the ball very quick wide down the wing of the MCG you could open us up, Shane Crawford said this was a huge emphasis of clarksons plan in the grand final in08 and it worked. Even just look at the highlights and you will see they hugged the boundary for their goals. In 10 in that prelim it was just too much. It was a huge flaw that was a key part of costing us two flags

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I think you are half right and half wrong - re 2010

I think you have got a valid reasonable argument that the Cats were better than StKilda in 2010 - in that qualifying which Geel lost by less than a goal to Saints - i think the inside 50s in the last qtr were something like 19 to 1 Geelongs way - a certainty beaten the Cats that night

But i totally disagree that Geel were somehow better than Coll in 2010 - in that PF they obliterated Geel ( 81pts up at one stage ) with unstoppable football - it was like watching the West Indies in their heyday ( 70/80s ) with their 4 terrifying 4 fast bowlers skittling some side for about 60 or 70 in the 1st innings - just destroyed them - wiped them off the park - thats exactly what happened in the 10 PF

You say Geel could have won extra flags ( agree about 2013 ) but what about Coll - premiers in 10 - sitting on top of the ladder in 2011 - theve got a coach ( and i dont care who the coach was - and what strengths and weaknesses hes got ) going for back to back flags - and they have got that stupid handover at the end of the year - they should have said midway through 2011 - look circumstances have changed - there will be no handover at end of 2011 - we are just totally focussed on winning the 11 flag - that would have knocked all the circus shitt ( which followed ) on the head

my post above to spazz is probably my reply to this. You can’t look at 10 and 11 and put it down to anything besides coaching. I pointed out one of the well known flaws defensively of that geelong side, both the 08 grand final and the 2010 prelim it probably played massive roles in us losing the games. Also our handball frenzy game was too easy to pressure.

that geelong side deserved 4-5 flags, not 3. The team Thompson wells and co put together was the best we have ever witnessed.

the idea still of putting side by side that Richmond and geelong team on paper is laughable... yet they have achieved as much as we did.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

It wasn't just the Prelim though. They comfortably beat us in Round 19 before the finals, and when we played St.Kilda were kept goalless in the second half and scoreless in the third quarter. So it's not a fluke that those sides reached the Grand final and we didn't.

no doubt they were better than us in 2010, it’s more the reason why they were better than us in 2010 is what I am saying. Agree with what your saying

 

[Spazz Cat]

I know you disagree largely but essentially the exact same playing group played in the grand final 12 months later except we lost ablett who of cause was a massive loss to our side, and we beat them by six goals. You could also argue they were a better team in 2011 only losing to us and winning more games.

What essentially changed was our game plan changed. In particular probably our ball movement and the way we defended the entire ground and not just the corridor.

in that prelim even looking at the highlights, collingwood ran the ball from the back half to the forward line down the wing essentially without a single bit of pressure. It was embarrassing a little.

it became known that geelong defended the corridor and if you moved the ball very quick wide down the wing of the MCG you could open us up, Shane Crawford said this was a huge emphasis of clarksons plan in the grand final in08 and it worked. Even just look at the highlights and you will see they hugged the boundary for their goals. In 10 in that prelim it was just too much. It was a huge flaw that was a key part of costing us two flags

Yeah CS coached awesome in 2011, and Malthouse/Buckley f**ked up.
Not to mention Cloke contract, gambling incident etc.
The coaching was a big reason why we won 2011 but not why we lost 2010 or 2012.
Sometimes teams are better. Sometimes your not the best.

Like Richmond now. I'd hardly say we lost cause of our coach, but their coaching is just better.
Sometimes you've just got to accept that other teams do things better.

Just like other teams had to accept we were better when we were smashing them by 100 points with a team we 99% developed ourselves with no No.1 or priority picks.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Yeah CS coached awesome in 2011, and Malthouse/Buckley f**ked up.
Not to mention Cloke contract, gambling incident etc.
The coaching was a big reason why we won 2011 but not why we lost 2010 or 2012.
Sometimes teams are better. Sometimes your not the best.

Like Richmond now. I'd hardly say we lost cause of our coach, but their coaching is just better.
Sometimes you've just got to accept that other teams do things better.

Just like other teams had to accept we were better when we were smashing them by 100 points with a team we 99% developed ourselves with no No.1 or priority picks.

what makes you say they stuffed up in 2011? The only logic to support That is they lost the grand final to us, in fact they beat every single side in 2011 besides geelong. I would argue they were better than their 2010 team based off their results. They improved in every regard on the field. Teams dealing with distractions don’t win 20-2 in a season, it’s just collingwood fans sooking looking for excuses

I’d say 11 is obvious proof it was the coaching in 10. 2012 too many players retired for us to be good enough.

 

[Spazz Cat]

what makes you say they stuffed up in 2011? The only logic to support That is they lost the grand final to us, in fact they beat every single side in 2011 besides geelong. I would argue they were better than their 2010 team based off their results. They improved in every regard on the field. Teams dealing with distractions don’t win 20-2 in a season, it’s just collingwood fans sooking looking for excuses

I’d say 11 is obvious proof it was the coaching in 10. 2012 too many players retired for us to be good enough.

I dunno. I just reckon they were better. It happens.
Hawthorn won 89 didn’t make 90 and won 91, West Coast won 92 didn't make 93 and won 94.
North 96, 98, 99.
Hardly going to have a dig at the coaches, they were all great.
Or call the other teams who won in between not that good.
Don't see why we have to be a huge exception.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I dunno. I just reckon they were better. It happens.
Hawthorn won 89 didn’t make 90 and won 91, West Coast won 92 didn't make 93 and won 94.
North 96, 98, 99.
Hardly going to have a dig at the coaches, they were all great.
Or call the other teams who won in between not that good.
Don't see why we have to be a huge exception.

agree, back to back is very hard to win, history shows that. A lot has to go right to win it. Most teams can’t do it. It’s much harder to win it being the hunted Than the hunter. You need exceptional circumstances and a bloody good team to make it happen.

I’ve already shared my reasons why we didn’t go back to back. I strongly believe we should have won 08 and 10, we should ha e finished up with 4-5 flags. We ended up with 3 which was a damn fine effort, but once again it’s a case of annakin skywalker having his potential unfulfilled. That team should be the standalone best of all time, and plenty will rightfully argue it isn’t.

 

[Spazz Cat]

agree, back to back is very hard to win, history shows that. A lot has to go right to win it. Most teams can’t do it. It’s much harder to win it being the hunted Than the hunter. You need exceptional circumstances and a bloody good team to make it happen.

I’ve already shared my reasons why we didn’t go back to back. I strongly believe we should have won 08 and 10, we should ha e finished up with 4-5 flags. We ended up with 3 which was a damn fine effort, but once again it’s a case of annakin skywalker having his potential unfulfilled. That team should be the standalone best of all time, and plenty will rightfully argue it isn’t.

I also think we should of got one more.
But im happy. They're the best in my mind, and that's all that matters to me.
I reckon in 50 years they'll be showing videos of 07 on how great footy once was.
Won't be doing that with Hawks, Tigers etc
And we actually got to be there. And it was our team!

 

[Partridge]

I also think we should of got one more.
But im happy. They're the best in my mind, and that's all that matters to me.
I reckon in 50 years they'll be showing videos of 07 on how great footy once was.
Won't be doing that with Hawks, Tigers etc
And we actually got to be there. And it was our team!

Definitely. 2008 by a long, long way. Just no excuses for blowing that.

Anyway, that's how it happens.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Definitely. 2008 by a long, long way. Just no excuses for blowing that.

Anyway, that's how it happens.

Yep.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I also think we should of got one more.
But im happy. They're the best in my mind, and that's all that matters to me.
I reckon in 50 years they'll be showing videos of 07 on how great footy once was.
Won't be doing that with Hawks, Tigers etc
And we actually got to be there. And it was our team!

agreed. To say with such arrogance that a team should have gotten 4 flags just shows how highly we rated that side. Best in history.

the idea of a midfield to me of ...

ablett, bartel, selwood, Kelly, ling, Corey, ottens..... just wow. It’s unbelievable to think that was real isn’t it??

then a defense of..

harley, milburn, enright, mackie, scarlett, egan/taylor, hunt, wojinski....

Forward line of... Johnson, chapman, mooney, stokes, pods, varcoe...


Its the footballing equivalent of the dream team

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Yep.

My only lol moment of that team is recalling mark blake kick a footy to a skilled stadium full of cheers