Politics What policies will actually fix Western Democracy

VineyIsLORD

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Care to elaborate?

Well your criticism of "Communism" is mostly related to states like the USSR and Yugoslavia that were very successful at a certain time and place, but at great cost long term due to corruption. I actually agree with your criticism of those states and their state capitalist systems.

But what you posted isn't really applicable as a criticism of socialism or communism, as nothing you really talked about is related to socialism or communsim as political and economic theory. Just a very specific criticism of very specific states.
 

VineyIsLORD

Norm Smith Medallist
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Any ideas how you fix this? It's pretty much broken in Australia too. Yes we have the greens but they will never seriously challenge for a majority.

The Greens represent little to no actual change to the system.

The problem is the economic system of capitalism is dying because of what it was built on, and because of specific flaws unique to capitalism. It is dying as all economic systems do eventually.
 
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The Greens represent little to no actual change to the system.

The problem is the economic system of capitalism is dying because of what it was built on, and because of specific flaws unique to capitalism. It is dying as all economic systems do eventually.

But isn't Capitalism the end result of Marxian praxis, Following on from the process of dialectical materialism?....Wasn't it Hegel who set forth the left/right dynamic, as a socio-economic answer & replacement for the guild system & Catholicism?
 
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John Stuart Mill - Considerations on Representative Government:

Mill argues for representative government, the ideal form of government in his opinion. One of the more notable ideas Mill puts forth in the book is that the business of government representatives is not to make legislation. Instead Mill suggests that representative bodies such as parliaments and senates are best suited to be places of public debate on the various opinions held by the population and to act as watchdogs of the professionals who create and administer laws and policy. In his words:
Their part is to indicate wants, to be an organ for popular demands, and a place of adverse discussion for all opinions relating to public matters, both great and small; and, along with this, to check by criticism, and eventually by withdrawing their support, those high public officers who really conduct the public business, or who appoint those by whom it is conducted.
 
Sep 15, 2011
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Any ideas how you fix this? It's pretty much broken in Australia too. Yes we have the greens but they will never seriously challenge for a majority.
As I mentioned earlier, proportional representation would go a long way to fixing the duopoly. If the Greens got 10 per cent of the votes and 10 per cent of the seats, they would either flourish or be exposed. If they were exposed, another party would step up. The fact that they can attract 10 per cent plus of the vote and have only one seat out of 150 discourages voting outside the major parties.
 
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Democracy just like any other ruling model eventually gets exploited for the gains of a few, don't think any ruling model will ever work perfectly, the problem's human beings, we just can't do this s**t right
We can. Most western democracies were developed 130 years ago or before. So much has changed since then in terms of technology, institutions, economic theory and our understanding of what humans are. We could easily make a much better democratic system with more accountability, strong institutions, more incentive to contribute, greater fairness, greater freedoms and greater knowledge distribution. The problem is how do we change the current system. I don't think its possible until the baby boomers are dead and we have a much larger share of the voting population in the under 40s. The over 40s refuse to vote for change unless it's about changing things back to the way they used to be. The younger generation are more educated, have greater understanding of the modern world and care more about the distant future.
 
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As I mentioned earlier, proportional representation would go a long way to fixing the duopoly. If the Greens got 10 per cent of the votes and 10 per cent of the seats, they would either flourish or be exposed. If they were exposed, another party would step up. The fact that they can attract 10 per cent plus of the vote and have only one seat out of 150 discourages voting outside the major parties.
You would need to replace the House of Representatives for this. Something I'm in favour of although I haven't thought it through properly.
 

VineyIsLORD

Norm Smith Medallist
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Democracy just like any other ruling model eventually gets exploited for the gains of a few, don't think any ruling model will ever work perfectly, the problem's human beings, we just can't do this s**t right

Its not democracy the political system that is the problem.

Its capitalism the economic system that has no future.
 

VineyIsLORD

Norm Smith Medallist
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You would need to replace the House of Representatives for this. Something I'm in favour of although I haven't thought it through properly.

How about direct democracy?

Or as it is more accurately termed, socialism
 
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Well your criticism of "Communism" is mostly related to states like the USSR and Yugoslavia that were very successful at a certain time and place, but at great cost long term due to corruption. I actually agree with your criticism of those states and their state capitalist systems.

But what you posted isn't really applicable as a criticism of socialism or communism, as nothing you really talked about is related to socialism or communsim as political and economic theory. Just a very specific criticism of very specific states.
That is a valid argument for some of my points. But not all of them. Unless Marxism has now changed into something that I'm completely unfamiliar with.

Whilst I do disagree with the solutions of Marxists I do agree with their sentiments regarding some of the problems they see in pure capitalist democracies.

Money should have no influence in the democratic process as it currently does today. Everyone needs to have equal access to education rather than having education quality determined by the achievements/wealth of your parents. Private monopolies leads to unjust rent accruing to elites. Unregulated business enterprise can result in consumers and members of society being unjustly negatively harmed due to negative externalities or adverse information problems between buyers and sellers. Banks shouldn't get to keep excess profits during good times if they get protection from tax payers when things go bad. Strong and interlinked communities are critical to human well being. Humans standard of living should be protected from disease and injury. Children are necessary to keep society going and parents should be provided public funding to help cover the costs of child raising. People's standard of living should not be determined by the wealth and successes of their parents. People should have the freedom to live without fear that comes from allowing people to carry weopans in the streets.

However these problems can all be solved within a capatalist framework which still enables you keep the benefits of capitalism that Marxism takes away.
 
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Ron The Bear

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Stop implementing diversity for its own sake. It is a misguided idealistic fantasy and downright harmful.
 
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I'm against positive discrimination policies because they are unjust and cause resentment. Idealistic fantasies however are a good thing and we should be encouraged to aim for them.
Isn't it unjust to discriminate against a group for decades, handicap them for the future, then tell them tough luck, it's up to them to overcome it? Seems like that might cause resentment.
 
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Isn't it unjust to discriminate against a group for decades, handicap them for the future, then tell them tough luck, it's up to them to overcome it? Seems like that might cause resentment.
How are they handicapped if there is no discrimination? If there is still discrimination then simply educate and penalise the discrimination. Creating more discrimination fixes nothing.
 
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How are they handicapped if there is no discrimination? If there is still discrimination then simply educate and penalise the discrimination. Creating more discrimination fixes nothing.
Because actions have consequences. Decades of discrimination have left some groups economically and educationally disadvantaged. You can't just say all's square, now it's your fault if you can't keep up. It's like a 100m race between two people, with one having his legs tied together; 50m in you realise it's unfair and untie his legs, only to resume the race from where they are. Then blame the loser for not catching up. You have to bring them to an equal starting point. Benefiting off discrimination breeds resentment as well.
 

Ron The Bear

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Because actions have consequences. Decades of discrimination have left some groups economically and educationally disadvantaged. You can't just say all's square, now it's your fault if you can't keep up. It's like a 100m race between two people, with one having his legs tied together; 50m in you realise it's unfair and untie his legs, only to resume the race from where they are. Then blame the loser for not catching up. You have to bring them to an equal starting point. Benefiting off discrimination breeds resentment as well.

That's globalisation in microcosm - handicap yourselves so that others may prosper. Except that "yourselves" = "others".
 

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Anything that can sucessfully curb the accumulate copious amounts of personal debt culture.
 
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Because actions have consequences. Decades of discrimination have left some groups economically and educationally disadvantaged. You can't just say all's square, now it's your fault if you can't keep up. It's like a 100m race between two people, with one having his legs tied together; 50m in you realise it's unfair and untie his legs, only to resume the race from where they are. Then blame the loser for not catching up. You have to bring them to an equal starting point. Benefiting off discrimination breeds resentment as well.
My reference is to jobs, not education. Everyone should have the same standard of education no matter what background they come from or how rich their parents are. However, you cant give people jobs if they are not qualified to do them. You need to educate them first and once educated there is no need for positive discrimination in employment as long as employment decisions are based on merit and not family connections. Public employers can simply be forced to not discriminate on anything other than merit. Private firms are free to discriminate but it will come at their loss if they arent choosing the best qualified people.
 
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Anything that can sucessfully curb the accumulate copious amounts of personal debt culture.

Thats called consumerism. Its what the banks want, so thats what they get.

Its made worse when financial turds like Turnbull & Trump seem keen to take any pressure off the banks. Including any taxation they may feel like paying.
 
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How about direct democracy?

Or as it is more accurately termed, socialism
You mean everyone voting on every decision? How would that even work? Its possible in small tribal socieities but in countries of millions of people? Even if technology allows it there is the added problem of most people not having the time or information to properly consider each decision.

One option is to keep it representstive but have everyone have only fixed four year terms and be chosen not by elections but by a draw. The public wages given to each person choosen would be significant to encourage them to quit their career for four years to participate.
 
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You mean everyone voting on every decision? How would that even work? Its possible in small tribal socieities but in countries of millions of people? Even if technology allows it there is the added problem of most people not having the time or information to properly consider each decision.

One option is to keep it representstive but have everyone have only fixed four year terms and be chosen not by elections but by a draw. The public wages given to each person choosen would be significant to encourage them to quit their career for four years to participate.
Voting on literally every decision is not practical, but everyone voting on major decisions is not that impossible as access to the internet becomes ubiquitous.

As to your second point, the Greek method of politics as the equivalent of jury duty has some merit, but most people would be unwilling to give up years of their profession to 'serve' in Parliament. While the wage might be good, you would find yourself four years behind your colleagues when you return.
 

VineyIsLORD

Norm Smith Medallist
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You mean everyone voting on every decision? How would that even work? Its possible in small tribal socieities but in countries of millions of people? Even if technology allows it there is the added problem of most people not having the time or information to properly consider each decision.

One option is to keep it representstive but have everyone have only fixed four year terms and be chosen not by elections but by a draw. The public wages given to each person choosen would be significant to encourage them to quit their career for four years to participate.

Switzerland have many direct democracy systems, it works fine.

They have nearly 9 million citizens.

And no it doesn't involve everyone voting on every decision. Who told you that's how direct democracy works?
 
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Its not democracy the political system that is the problem.

Its capitalism the economic system that has no future.

I don't think it's economical systems or governing models that are the problem, human beings are just so dumb and so flawed they'll always find a way to * it up bigly

Some people are just so stupid that they don't deserve to vote coz they know nothing about politics or running a country
 
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I don't think it's economical systems or governing models that are the problem, human beings are just so dumb and so flawed they'll always find a way to **** it up bigly

Some people are just so stupid that they don't deserve to vote coz they know nothing about politics or running a country

Well yes. But politics is about the distribution of national resources. Some people may be dumb, but some (politicians & billionaires) lie & cheat to get more than their fare share.
 
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