What stops us from having a run of success

[jmac70]

I am curious, as I have seen flags in 1990, 2010 and 2023. But what stops us from having a run of success, Geelong could win second flag in 2years, Brisbane could go back to back, have previously won 3 in a row, Hawks 3 in row plus 2008, Richmond won 3 over 4 year period, but we seem to need years before we will win another one. Not a bad year this year but curious as to why we aren't able to just be a really strong side for multiple years?

Since the turn of the century, we average a preliminary final every two years. Yeah, a couple more flags would have been good.

Being a Collingwood supporter is great value. Imagine following Carlton or Essendon.

 

[upnsmoke]

Jason Cloke was in red hot early career form in 2002. And after Rocca got suspended I don’t think anyone at Collingwood was expecting a victory. We were so reliant on a few and Rocca was our second most important player after Bucks.

Also the BS that is all the advantages the AFL gave the Lions that allowed them to essentially field an all-Australian team.

The 2001 to 2003 Lions team were comically good. Literally had like 4 of the top 7 midfielders in the game. Had 3 of the top 5 defensive players and had the best Half Forward in the game and was playing like a young Wayne Carrey in Brown. Just ridiculous.

 

[pie chucker]

Because it's damn hard and possibly poor timing. You need a group of consistent players drafted together and growing up, improving at the same time.

In 1991 you could say it was a hangover. I'm convinced we could have won in 92 if Darren Millane was still alive.

In 2011 we ran out of legs. A few injuries stopped players performing at their peak.

2023, welll seriously not many people saw this coming. We were a shambles in 21, so winning a flag was amazing. Our current team is very old.... oldest in history in fact. Therefore it's logical to suggest we can't improve.

But yeah it sucks. But I'm reasonable happy to have seen 3 premierships in my adult lifetime. Better than a lot of teams.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

I’m going to say something that will annoy a lot of people but we were lucky to win each of those 3 flags we never had the best side in any of those seasons.
1990 we got lucky with the draw and the Hawks unexpectedly losing to Melbourne. We could never get close to them in that era.

2010 again not the best side and lucky with the draw again. We were a very good side but better in 2011 and we lost so the draw helped us.

2023: well with no key forwards and single digit wins maybe it was luck or a better game plan i think a lot of teams could have won 23.

Apart from 2011 we’ve never really been the dominant team and my opinion is that we’re screwed by three people. Eddie, Buckley and Hine. I personally put most of the blame on Hine. He’s flat out refusal to draft key position players unless they were f/s after Reid and Brown was disgraceful and the misses in top 20 picks were spectacular, as another poster has already stated. Basically he lucked out with Swan but he was almost gone after 2 years and the whole Beams mk2 fiasco has and is still killing us.
We all know the Eddie/Bucks fiasco so I’ll leave it at that.

I’m glad we’ve won 3 in my lifetime but 4 is going to be a long long long way down the road, I hope I’m around to see it.

I agree with the others but I'd say 2010 we were one of the better teams. We beat some very good sides during the season and in the finals that year and we developed brilliantly into 2011 just fell over on the day due to a variety of factors.

 

[MattD2308]

Depth of class. If Lions get up next week, and then recruit Oscar Allen

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Oscar Allen

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and Draper, geezuz, they will give it another crack next year. Look at Tigers(when in their prime) Cats, and now Lions, just stacked with depth, and hybrid type players who are very quick, smart, big bodied and skilful. Put Mcluggage and Bailey in our side, geez, we’d have some depth in our midfield then.
I feel we are going to shorten Nicks career, without some big body mids to share the load. Just my observation.

 

[Chronz]

Depth of class. If Lions get up next week, and then recruit Oscar Allen and Draper, geezuz, they will give it another crack next year. Look at Tigers(when in their prime) Cats, and now Lions, just stacked with depth, and hybrid type players who are very quick, smart, big bodied and skilful. Put Mcluggage and Bailey in our side, geez, we’d have some depth in our midfield then.
I feel we are going to shorten Nicks career, without some big body mids to share the load. Just my observation.

Brisbane will also will be receiving another two top ten rated players in this years draft. The AFL are taking the piss with 'equalisation' as they pump non-stop guns yearly into the northern states.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

We are currently in a run of success, people just have insanely unrealistic expectations of what success is in this sport. Not saying you OP, just saying in general.

We’ve been thereabouts for 23 years.

We are very lucky and somewhat spoilt.

 

[brysie]

Lions - AFL advantages have propelled their success. Look at either side of their successful eras and they were a rabble.

Tigers/Hawks - both stripped everything right back and built from the bottom. The Hawks found success faster through their drafting, while Richmond fans had to wait a little longer but got their rewards eventually.

Cats - an inherent geographic advantage (similar somewhat to Sydney) and a very good father-son crop at a time when clubs weren't required to pay what they would for them today. There's also the Dank/Thompson influence that no-one seemingly wanted to investigate further.

 

[Chronz]

We are currently in a run of success, people just have insanely unrealistic expectations of what success is in this sport. Not saying you OP, just saying in general.

We’ve been thereabouts for 23 years.

We are very lucky and somewhat spoilt.

But when's our turn for some sustained success? Other clubs seem to do it.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

But when's our turn for some sustained success? Other clubs seem to do it.

If you mean multiple flags in a short space of time, not a lot of clubs seem to do it.

The ones that do have generational talent coming through all at the same time.

We have had to cobble together a tall forward setup for well over a decade now, although grand final day isn’t really a tall forwards paradise, you need them to get there.

Our list just isn’t that good.

 

[Carringbush2010]

We are currently in a run of success, people just have insanely unrealistic expectations of what success is in this sport. Not saying you OP, just saying in general.

We’ve been thereabouts for 23 years.

We are very lucky and somewhat spoilt.

Fair enough, the problem with this is if you ask a cats, hawks, tigers, bris fan their insanely unrealistic expectations have been realized and guess what they've been realized.

So those clubs have dynasties this century not by accident, they've just been better than us at it.

It's all good and well to say 'hey we've been in 12 prelims this century!' or 'We won a flag and got to a gf win an inferior list in those games, we should be proud!'

That's the whole point, those dynasty teams have nailed their opportunities to be better than the competition.

We're the rest, in the pack just like everyone that isn't the clubs above, when we've had more opportunities than others. We were in the box seat for a dynasty and blew that, that grates the most.

The only thing we can cling onto is that we've been better than the competition over the course of the competition by averages.

 

[gouki88]

We are currently in a run of success, people just have insanely unrealistic expectations of what success is in this sport. Not saying you OP, just saying in general.

We’ve been thereabouts for 23 years.

We are very lucky and somewhat spoilt.

Absolutely. 3/4 prelims is crazy good

 

[Carringbush2010]

But when's our turn for some sustained success? Other clubs seem to do it.

Not any time soon.

Just pray the blose or bombouts don't win one before we do.

 

[jathanas]

We are currently in a run of success, people just have insanely unrealistic expectations of what success is in this sport. Not saying you OP, just saying in general.

We’ve been thereabouts for 23 years.

We are very lucky and somewhat spoilt.

Excellent, thank you.

This post should be a "sticky".

One more thing I'd request is that all the posters who claim that they see this year as a failure because of their high standards, please list their own life achievements.

I'll wait.

 

[Monco Matt]

I ponder this question from time to time, it has always been a frustration as to why whenever we do win a flag we can never go on with it and win another 1 or 2, always we continue to make finals but not achieve the ultimate again. The answer is complex and nuanced and many internal and external factors can contribute but if I had to identify the number 1 key reason I would put it down to this.

#1. EGOS TAKE OVER:
1990 flag, Allan Macallister basically puts the entire playing list and coach on a pedestal, stroking the egos to max level allowing months long celebrations to derail preseason and the rot sets in. 2010, Eddie just couldn't let go of his ego and moves forward with his plan to replace a much loved premiership coach which divides the playing group by placing his man-crush Bux in the chair unchallenged. Result was destabilisation within, a drop off in team unity occurs and any chance of elite performance vanishes. Players leave and the dream dies. 2023 - Fly achieves the destiny flag which rubber stamps his belief that his system works and it did that season. Unfortunately he hasn't been able to change the system and freshen the team accordingly in responce to the competion. Our fitness team begins to outsmart itself thinking it can manipulate onfield outcomes by resting players 8 weeks out which began a sequence of form loss and disconnection. Fly also in his divine wisdom actually began giving suggestions and advice to coaches of other teams (Freo) on how their teams should play, result is we stay stagnant, lose focus then peter out into a 5 goal PF loss. On this occassion we drank the bath water instead of refilling it.

 

[upnsmoke]

If OP means why Collingwood cannot build a dynasty, then it's because of being impatient.

Post Pies 2010 could have been a dynasty if Pies didn't just pressured Malthouse out and forced Bucks in. Should have extended Malthouse contract to 2015 after winning 2010. This would have brought stability and kept culture in tact.

Pies could have easily come back in 2012 better and more primed to beat Cats, Hawks and Swans.


Then finally when Bucks got his team in 2018, the Pies used up money signing players to big contracts rather than chasing veteran stars to improve upon 2018.

Hence now with McRae.... Pies need to be patient.

Need to look at Geelong with Chris Scott

Chris Scott

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building a culture and attracting stars.

Collingwood should really do more to try to get big name stars too. Big name stars let's all face it, get favouritism calls from Umpires because AFL wants their stars to be propped up.

 

[manicpie]

It's just footy. We've still won 16 flags either way you look at it. Could've won more but hey. The salary cap debacle really ****ed us with being able to get high picks so we went all system based to cover it. It's hard to compete with sides that have a lot of high quality picks playing.

 

[Aussie pie]

Excellent, thank you.

This post should be a "sticky".

One more thing I'd request is that all the posters who claim that they see this year as a failure because of their high standards, please list their own life achievements.

I'll wait.

You’re comparing apples with Mac trucks. Team success in a sports franchise is winning the championship any thing else is not successful.
Success in a personal life is different by any individual. My success is living so long with so many crippling diseases and conditions. I did nothing else of consequence but since I should have been dead at 6 months old I’d say I’m successful. But you want a list of achievements.
I understand where you’re coming from but a sports team exists for one reason for championships why else keep score? This is not kids sport where they are learning teamwork and fundamentals of the game, it’s not about community involvement and bringing people together. Elite sport is about winning trophies when you don’t we get upset. The fact that you can read on here how pissed everyone is has got to tell you that your take while valid for you is not what the majority wants.

 

[jathanas]

You’re comparing apples with Mac trucks. Team success in a sports franchise is winning the championship any thing else is not successful.
Success in a personal life is different by any individual. My success is living so long with so many crippling diseases and conditions. I did nothing else of consequence but since I should have been dead at 6 months old I’d say I’m successful. But you want a list of achievements.
I understand where you’re coming from but a sports team exists for one reason for championships why else keep score? This is not kids sport where they are learning teamwork and fundamentals of the game, it’s not about community involvement and bringing people together. Elite sport is about winning trophies when you don’t we get upset. The fact that you can read on here how pissed everyone is has got to tell you that your take while valid for you is not what the majority wants.

Thanks for responding.

I'm glad to read you've lasted way beyond expectations, congrats!

We should note that the current sentiment on the board is one of negativity because after any loss, it's mainly people with those attitudes who post, many of whom disappear after wins (you don't). It's not a true majority because many choose to keep away due to the whinging that permeates.

I also understand the attitude of "second is just the first loser", but that's not my view or the club's.

You can't win them all and life would be boring if we did.

 

[stormskye]

But when's our turn for some sustained success? Other clubs seem to do it.

Other clubs?
Like adel, eagles, port, Carlton, Ess, dogs, Gold Coast, gws, Freo, saints, Melb?

Rich had a run but took 30 years and now down the bottom again.
Bris having another run. Geel haven’t won multiple.

We’ve been very successful.

 

[YouBeauty]

Flags are hard to win. If you use your imagination a little we have had sustained success with squads.

07, 09, 10, 11, 12 were all grand final chances
18, 19, 22, 23, 25 were great chances too

We need to keep improving the squad to continue contending.

 

[jmac70]

Flags are hard to win. If you use your imagination a little we have had sustained success with squads.

07, 09, 10, 11, 12 were all grand final chances
18, 19, 22, 23, 25 were great chances too

We need to keep improving the squad to continue contending.

We’ve had a hell of a ride.
Long may it continue.

Those Carlton and Essendon flogs would kill to have the experiences we have had.

 

[sr36]

I am curious, as I have seen flags in 1990, 2010 and 2023. But what stops us from having a run of success, Geelong could win second flag in 2years, Brisbane could go back to back, have previously won 3 in a row, Hawks 3 in row plus 2008, Richmond won 3 over 4 year period, but we seem to need years before we will win another one. Not a bad year this year but curious as to why we aren't able to just be a really strong side for multiple years?

1990 and 2010 groups probably could have won multiple but they drank too much piss. Macrae came to the club too late for this group to win multiple flags.

 

[gouki88]

1990 and 2010 groups probably could have won multiple but they drank too much piss. Macrae came to the club too late for this group to win multiple flags.

Fin?

It’s a shame the ratbag element is so fun

 

[TradeDraft]

Agreed with this year, but how have we not been able to do it over the years, maybe we can back up next year who knows

Might be how much Pressure it puts on the Club with it being Biggest Club in the AFL