What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 3

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BEaston

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Worth reading this around the debate of one or two rucks..
The tall and tall of it: How AFL ruck strategy has evolved


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-17/afl-analysis-how-ruck-strategy-has-evolved/12668180
Didn't think this was their best work when it's come to these analytics articles done by abc.

Anyway, it shows that the majority of teams are still going with the one ruckman taking 70%+ of ruck contests. That might go against some comments on here that most teams employ 2 ruckmen in a game.

Strictly reading this graph as it's written would support having Dunkley as your 2nd ruck, as with a Player Rating of 17 he is ranked higher than most #1 ruckmen:
1600296987630.png


I think this graph is heavily skewed by the differing player positions that participate in the the second most ruck contests in each game. It would have been better doing a comparison of win % for teams utilising a bonefide 2nd ruckman as opposed to a chop out from another player.
 

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Virgin Dog

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Derek home talking on the road to the draft podcasts suggest that the bulldogs will look to trade our first round pick out and move it into next year to save it being eaten up by a marra bid
Moving into next year is a good result - better than needing to split it, so long as we can conjure up enough points to actually match the bid without eating up next 1st first anyway
 

Golden_6

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Derek home talking on the road to the draft podcasts suggest that the bulldogs will look to trade our first round pick out and move it into next year to save it being eaten up by a marra bid
A lot of people on here suggest the same thing but it just isn’t happening. We need to pay for him somehow, and it’s not going to work with a few of second or third round picks.

The only thing I could see is splitting our first pick into a couple of picks worth more points. I would certainly be targeting Brisbane’s two late teen picks, which would cover a bid on Jamarra at pick 2 by themselves.
 

Charlie Bucket

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A lot of people on here suggest the same thing but it just isn’t happening. We need to pay for him somehow, and it’s not going to work with a few of second or third round picks.

The only thing I could see is splitting our first pick into a couple of picks worth more points. I would certainly be targeting Brisbane’s two late teen picks, which would cover a bid on Jamarra at pick 2 by themselves.
If the split picks we receive are going to be eaten up by JUH than I don’t see why we would bother going down that path. We would just keep our first and use that.

It will take some effort for our list management to sort something out, but I would be very surprised if we didn’t attempt to trade it out for a pick next year or use it for an established player this year.

Talk of Schache moving on possibly indicates we’re keen on bringing in a number of picks this year to take JUH without using our first.

It’ll be tricky but we certainly can’t write it off completely.
 

Mojorisin

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Moving into next year is a good result - better than needing to split it, so long as we can conjure up enough points to actually match the bid without eating up next 1st first anyway
Not sure how much value we will get out of it though the one team I see it working with would be the pies. Get another pick before they need to match a bid on their nga kid and their first next year would get eaten up by matching a daicos bid.
A lot of people on here suggest the same thing but it just isn’t happening. We need to pay for him somehow, and it’s not going to work with a few of second or third round picks.

The only thing I could see is splitting our first pick into a couple of picks worth more points. I would certainly be targeting Brisbane’s two late teen picks, which would cover a bid on Jamarra at pick 2 by themselves.
I would be trying to trade out of next year's second round in the above scenario. Would imagine the crows won't want to keep all their picks that will fall between 20-30 given the speculative nature of picks in that range this year. If Atkins signs the ludicrous 5 year deal reportedly offered by the sun's I'd say they would be interested in a future second for that pick so they aren't going to youth heavy in a year of such unknowns.
 

TBOW

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Not sure how much value we will get out of it though the one team I see it working with would be the pies. Get another pick before they need to match a bid on their nga kid and their first next year would get eaten up by matching a daicos bid.

I would be trying to trade out of next year's second round in the above scenario. Would imagine the crows won't want to keep all their picks that will fall between 20-30 given the speculative nature of picks in that range this year. If Atkins signs the ludicrous 5 year deal reportedly offered by the sun's I'd say they would be interested in a future second for that pick so they aren't going to youth heavy in a year of such unknowns.
It might depend how we see the top vs depth of next year's draft. We could look to trade our first this year back into the first round next year and then trade next year's second and third forward to this year. As you say clubs might be bailing out of this year's draft due to the speculative nature.
 

dogwatch

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Worth reading this around the debate of one or two rucks..
The tall and tall of it: How AFL ruck strategy has evolved


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-17/afl-analysis-how-ruck-strategy-has-evolved/12668180
There's no discussion of what clubs may lose if they play a top quality midfielder like Dunkley as a ruck.

We lost a fair bit with Dunkley rucking. He's too vesatile for his own good. I’m happy to have Dunkley the midfielder back.

If a player like Jong was fit and a couple of cm taller he’d be a much more attractive option for that role. He used to go OK as TMU but he's probably just not bulky enough to neutralise a monster ruck.
 

bobs head soup

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Moving into next year is a good result - better than needing to split it, so long as we can conjure up enough points to actually match the bid without eating up next 1st first anyway
The problem with trading this year's 1st for next year's is that you don't know what next year's 1st is worth.

Imagine the team we trade with make finals and we end up trading at a deficit.

Thinking an Adelaide or North will trade is a bit fanciful for mine. They've got heaps of picks this year, why are they trading out a likely top 5 pick next year (strong draft, more exposed form) for pick 10-12 in this compromised, fluky draft?

At least if we trade down into this year we know exactly what we are getting.
 

bobs head soup

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If the split picks we receive are going to be eaten up by JUH than I don’t see why we would bother going down that path. We would just keep our first and use that.

It will take some effort for our list management to sort something out, but I would be very surprised if we didn’t attempt to trade it out for a pick next year or use it for an established player this year.

Talk of Schache moving on possibly indicates we’re keen on bringing in a number of picks this year to take JUH without using our first.

It’ll be tricky but we certainly can’t write it off completely.
The thing is our 1st alone won't be enough to pay for Jamarra, given the likelihood that he gets bid on in the first 2-3 picks.

If we do nothing, matching such a bid will cost us pretty much all our picks. By trading out our first we are minimising the shortfall between its points value and the points needed to get Jamarra.

Trading our first for a player is fine, but we'll still have to pay for Jamarra somehow. Minimising the deficit going into next year is preferable in my opinion.
 

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weltschmerz

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So Weightman is our nominee over Vandermeer. Does first year player include VFL games now?
I have to assume Vandermeer isn't eligible because he was drafted in 2018. Same reason Max King isn't St Kilda's best first year player, must refer to thir first year on the list rather than their first year playing matches.
 

Mojorisin

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I have to assume Vandermeer isn't eligible because he was drafted in 2018. Same reason Max King isn't St Kilda's best first year player, must refer to thir first year on the list rather than their first year playing matches.
Yup all 18 are in the year after being drafted not first year playing
 

NBates

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Exclusive figures reveal the best and worst umpires for every finals-bound team’s winning record
How much does the ‘Razor’ effect impact your team? We’ve crunched the numbers on how every umpire impacts the clubs still alive in the 2020 AFL premiership race.
Rebecca Williams, Herald Sun
Subscriber only
|
September 17, 2020 4:18pm

He is the umpire AFL fans often love to hate.

The veteran whistle blower who has become famous during his long career in the lurid lime green for his on-field banter with players.

But exclusive Fox Lab statistics now show exactly what the “Razor” Ray Chamberlain effect is for all the teams in the finals mix.

In an analysis of each team’s winning percentage by umpires across the past four seasons, News Corp can reveal which teams will want to see “Razor” Ray in October – and which teams won’t.

The Western Bulldogs sit at the top of the list of the top-eight sides who would probably prefer to have any other umpire officiating their game.

Figures show the Bulldogs have won only one in three games the experienced Chamberlain has umpired.

When he umpires in Richmond games, the Tigers have a 61 per cent strike rate – almost double the Bulldogs.

But the West Coast Eagles would be thrilled to see Razor’s name on the list of umpires for their matches more than any other team, boasting a winning percentage of 80 per cent when he held the whistle.

RELATED: ‘RAZOR RAY” REVEALS HIGHS AND LOWS OF UMPIRING
Ray Chamberlain is the AFL’s most recognisable umpire. Picture: Michael Klein

Ray Chamberlain is the AFL’s most recognisable umpire. Picture: Michael Klein

Melbourne and Collingwood also boast a strong winning percentage of more than 60 with Chamberlain officiating.

St Kilda has broken even with Chamberlain on field, while ladder leaders Port Adelaide and Brisbane have won just 40 per cent of their matches involving the league’s most recognisable umpire.

There is no suggestion of favouritism towards any of the teams, it’s just what the stats say.

Based on a criteria of a minimum of 10 games officiated for each club, we can reveal the best and worst winning record for every finals team by field umpire.

Umpire Andrew Stephens would be at the top of Cats’ coach Chris Scott’s list for the finals.

In the 10 Geelong games Stephens has umpired, the Cats have not lost a match.

Premier Richmond is more than comfortable with Chris Donlon on the field. The Tigers have a 90.9 per cent winning record when he is umpiring.

Umpire Andrew Stephens hasn’t umpired a Geelong loss in the past four seasons. Picture: Michael Klein
Umpire Andrew Stephens hasn’t umpired a Geelong loss in the past four seasons. Picture: Michael Klein

And the Western Bulldogs have lost only one of the 10 games Leigh Fisher has umpired in.

At the other end of the scale, the Brisbane Lions haven’t tasted much success when umpire David Harris is blowing the whistle, losing 11 times in 12 matches.

But it’s a different story for Port Adelaide, which has an 80 per cent winning record with Harris.

Collingwood, meanwhile, has lost only three of 12 matches with umpire Nick Foot on the ground.

So who are the umpires the finals-bound teams want to see on the ground and those they don’t?

Your club's most and least favourite umpires
Your club's most and least favourite umpires

BRISBANE LIONS
Best: Chris Donlon - 25 games, 15 wins, 5 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 66.7%
Worst: David Harris - 12 games, 1 win, 11 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 8.3%
COLLINGWOOD
Best: Nick Foot - 12 games, 9 wins, 3 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 75%
Worst: Simon Meredith - 17 games, 4 wins, 1 draw, 12 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 23.5%
GEELONG
Best: Andrew Stephens - 10 games, 10 wins, 0 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 100%
Worst: Ray Chamberlain -15 games, 7 wins, 1 draw, 7 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 46.7%
MELBOURNE
Best: Ray Chamberlain - 17 games, 11 wins, 6 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 64.7%
Worst: David Harris - 12 games, 4 wins, 8 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 33.3%
PORT ADELAIDE
Best: David Harris - 10 games, 8 wins, 2 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 80%
Worst: Jeff Dalgleish - 10 games, 3 wins, 7 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 30%
RICHMOND
Best: Chris Donlon - 11 games, 10 wins, 1 loss
Total Winning Percentage: 90.9%
Worst: Jacob Mollison - 12 games, 6 wins, 6 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 50%
ST KILDA
Best: Matt Stevic - 12 games, 7 wins, 5 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 58.3%
Worst: Robert O'Gorman - 10 games, 3 wins, 7 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 30%
WEST COAST
Best: Jeff Dalgleish - 25 games, 21 wins, 4 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 84%
Worst: Andrew Stephens - 15 games, 7 wins, 8 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 46.7%
WESTERN BULLDOGS
Best: Leigh Fisher - 10 games, 9 wins, 1 loss
Total Winning Percentage: 90%
Worst: Jeff Dalgleish - 12 games, 3 wins, 9 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 25%
 

dogwatch

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Exclusive figures reveal the best and worst umpires for every finals-bound team’s winning record
How much does the ‘Razor’ effect impact your team? We’ve crunched the numbers on how every umpire impacts the clubs still alive in the 2020 AFL premiership race.
Rebecca Williams, Herald Sun
Subscriber only
|
September 17, 2020 4:18pm

He is the umpire AFL fans often love to hate.

The veteran whistle blower who has become famous during his long career in the lurid lime green for his on-field banter with players.

But exclusive Fox Lab statistics now show exactly what the “Razor” Ray Chamberlain effect is for all the teams in the finals mix.

In an analysis of each team’s winning percentage by umpires across the past four seasons, News Corp can reveal which teams will want to see “Razor” Ray in October – and which teams won’t.

The Western Bulldogs sit at the top of the list of the top-eight sides who would probably prefer to have any other umpire officiating their game.

Figures show the Bulldogs have won only one in three games the experienced Chamberlain has umpired.

When he umpires in Richmond games, the Tigers have a 61 per cent strike rate – almost double the Bulldogs.

But the West Coast Eagles would be thrilled to see Razor’s name on the list of umpires for their matches more than any other team, boasting a winning percentage of 80 per cent when he held the whistle.

RELATED: ‘RAZOR RAY” REVEALS HIGHS AND LOWS OF UMPIRING
Ray Chamberlain is the AFL’s most recognisable umpire. Picture: Michael Klein

Ray Chamberlain is the AFL’s most recognisable umpire. Picture: Michael Klein

Melbourne and Collingwood also boast a strong winning percentage of more than 60 with Chamberlain officiating.

St Kilda has broken even with Chamberlain on field, while ladder leaders Port Adelaide and Brisbane have won just 40 per cent of their matches involving the league’s most recognisable umpire.

There is no suggestion of favouritism towards any of the teams, it’s just what the stats say.

Based on a criteria of a minimum of 10 games officiated for each club, we can reveal the best and worst winning record for every finals team by field umpire.

Umpire Andrew Stephens would be at the top of Cats’ coach Chris Scott’s list for the finals.

In the 10 Geelong games Stephens has umpired, the Cats have not lost a match.

Premier Richmond is more than comfortable with Chris Donlon on the field. The Tigers have a 90.9 per cent winning record when he is umpiring.

Umpire Andrew Stephens hasn’t umpired a Geelong loss in the past four seasons. Picture: Michael Klein
Umpire Andrew Stephens hasn’t umpired a Geelong loss in the past four seasons. Picture: Michael Klein

And the Western Bulldogs have lost only one of the 10 games Leigh Fisher has umpired in.

At the other end of the scale, the Brisbane Lions haven’t tasted much success when umpire David Harris is blowing the whistle, losing 11 times in 12 matches.

But it’s a different story for Port Adelaide, which has an 80 per cent winning record with Harris.

Collingwood, meanwhile, has lost only three of 12 matches with umpire Nick Foot on the ground.

So who are the umpires the finals-bound teams want to see on the ground and those they don’t?

Your club's most and least favourite umpires
Your club's most and least favourite umpires's most and least favourite umpires

BRISBANE LIONS
Best: Chris Donlon - 25 games, 15 wins, 5 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 66.7%
Worst: David Harris - 12 games, 1 win, 11 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 8.3%
COLLINGWOOD
Best: Nick Foot - 12 games, 9 wins, 3 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 75%
Worst: Simon Meredith - 17 games, 4 wins, 1 draw, 12 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 23.5%
GEELONG
Best: Andrew Stephens - 10 games, 10 wins, 0 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 100%
Worst: Ray Chamberlain -15 games, 7 wins, 1 draw, 7 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 46.7%
MELBOURNE
Best: Ray Chamberlain - 17 games, 11 wins, 6 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 64.7%
Worst: David Harris - 12 games, 4 wins, 8 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 33.3%
PORT ADELAIDE
Best: David Harris - 10 games, 8 wins, 2 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 80%
Worst: Jeff Dalgleish - 10 games, 3 wins, 7 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 30%
RICHMOND
Best: Chris Donlon - 11 games, 10 wins, 1 loss
Total Winning Percentage: 90.9%
Worst: Jacob Mollison - 12 games, 6 wins, 6 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 50%
ST KILDA
Best: Matt Stevic - 12 games, 7 wins, 5 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 58.3%
Worst: Robert O'Gorman - 10 games, 3 wins, 7 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 30%
WEST COAST
Best: Jeff Dalgleish - 25 games, 21 wins, 4 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 84%
Worst: Andrew Stephens - 15 games, 7 wins, 8 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 46.7%
WESTERN BULLDOGS
Best: Leigh Fisher - 10 games, 9 wins, 1 loss
Total Winning Percentage: 90%
Worst: Jeff Dalgleish - 12 games, 3 wins, 9 losses
Total Winning Percentage: 25%
There is no suggestion of favouritism towards any of the teams, it’s just what the stats say.
LOL

Every opposition board knows the real reason for our demise has been the retirement of Troy Pannell.
 

Charlie Bucket

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The thing is our 1st alone won't be enough to pay for Jamarra, given the likelihood that he gets bid on in the first 2-3 picks.

If we do nothing, matching such a bid will cost us pretty much all our picks. By trading out our first we are minimising the shortfall between its points value and the points needed to get Jamarra.

Trading our first for a player is fine, but we'll still have to pay for Jamarra somehow. Minimising the deficit going into next year is preferable in my opinion.
Yes, of course. Hadn’t thought about that.

I still prefer the other two options. Trade for a player or trade for next years first.
Will be difficult but need to have a crack imo.
 

mcgleereturns

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Wow that is the shallowest field of MVP worthy names I’ve ever seen. Lachie Neale will get 90% of the votes unless the players go the popularity route and vote Dusty and Fyfe on name recognition alone. It’s like tennis minus Fed, Rafa and Novak - a real changing of the guard. Ed will probably ask his players for a please explain in the morning over Pendles snub. Danger must be real popular at Geelong. Sums up Cripps year. A better start to the year and Bont might have had a shot. Robbos Top 50 will make for a Who’s that list instead of a Who’s Who based on these nominations. 2020 is weird.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

ossie_21

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St Kilda legend Nick Riewoldt has urged the AFL to get tough on players sliding along the ground to rid the game of dangerous contact below the knees.

GWS defender Heath Shaw cleaned up Saints star Dan Butler during St Kilda’s 12.10 (82) to 3.12 (30) demolition of the Giants on Friday night, leading Riewoldt to call for action to prevent similar incidents from happening in future.
Shaw hit the deck as he challenged Butler for the footy but Riewoldt says such a move risked snapping a leg in half — and he doesn’t want to see it anymore.

The AFL has tried to get punching out of the game by introducing harsh penalties for striking, and Riewoldt suggested the rules need to be altered so players are warned off sliding and potentially ending someone’s career.

“We all cringed when we saw that occur. You only need to get that leg stuck and it’s potentially career-ending that sort of injury, they can be horrific,” Riewoldt said on Fox Footy.

“This isn’t by any means an attack on Heath Shaw, he’s a really fair player — but I think what the AFL has done with legislating to get front on contact out of the game (should be done for sliding as well).

“That is so close to a snapped in half leg, so I just wonder whether the AFL now can move past that being just a free kick and actually legislate that sliding action out of the game.

“Fines don’t work.”


Hawthorn legend Dermott Brereton suggested even though Shaw didn’t act with any malice, he would have regretted the play.

“Heath Shaw would look back at that and go, ‘I didn’t get that quite right’,” Brereton said. “He was giving away a professional free kick — he’s not the kind who would do it in malice.

“He would look back at that and go, ‘Gee, that was bad what I just did’.”

The incident involving Shaw and Butler brought back memories of an injury suffered by Saint Dan Hannebery when playing for the Swans in the 2016 grand final.

The midfielder’s day ended after his left knee bent awkwardly when collected by Western Bulldogs star Easton Wood, who dived in to win the Sherrin in the final quarter of the Dogs’ victory.


Hannebery stepped past the ball to pick it up, Wood did dive for the ball to win it but that is an act you see in every single game. Nothing like the slide from Shaw last night which he knows wasn’t good.

Journo should have made the point of the umpires paying in the back free kicks for players that have slid in, Suckling copped one of those this season and I’ve seen another 4-5 since
 

grassman75

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Jun 16, 2008
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St Kilda legend Nick Riewoldt has urged the AFL to get tough on players sliding along the ground to rid the game of dangerous contact below the knees.

GWS defender Heath Shaw cleaned up Saints star Dan Butler during St Kilda’s 12.10 (82) to 3.12 (30) demolition of the Giants on Friday night, leading Riewoldt to call for action to prevent similar incidents from happening in future.
Shaw hit the deck as he challenged Butler for the footy but Riewoldt says such a move risked snapping a leg in half — and he doesn’t want to see it anymore.

The AFL has tried to get punching out of the game by introducing harsh penalties for striking, and Riewoldt suggested the rules need to be altered so players are warned off sliding and potentially ending someone’s career.

“We all cringed when we saw that occur. You only need to get that leg stuck and it’s potentially career-ending that sort of injury, they can be horrific,” Riewoldt said on Fox Footy.

“This isn’t by any means an attack on Heath Shaw, he’s a really fair player — but I think what the AFL has done with legislating to get front on contact out of the game (should be done for sliding as well).

“That is so close to a snapped in half leg, so I just wonder whether the AFL now can move past that being just a free kick and actually legislate that sliding action out of the game.

“Fines don’t work.”


Hawthorn legend Dermott Brereton suggested even though Shaw didn’t act with any malice, he would have regretted the play.

“Heath Shaw would look back at that and go, ‘I didn’t get that quite right’,” Brereton said. “He was giving away a professional free kick — he’s not the kind who would do it in malice.

“He would look back at that and go, ‘Gee, that was bad what I just did’.”

The incident involving Shaw and Butler brought back memories of an injury suffered by Saint Dan Hannebery when playing for the Swans in the 2016 grand final.

The midfielder’s day ended after his left knee bent awkwardly when collected by Western Bulldogs star Easton Wood, who dived in to win the Sherrin in the final quarter of the Dogs’ victory.


Hannebery stepped past the ball to pick it up, Wood did dive for the ball to win it but that is an act you see in every single game. Nothing like the slide from Shaw last night which he knows wasn’t good.

Journo should have made the point of the umpires paying in the back free kicks for players that have slid in, Suckling copped one of those this season and I’ve seen another 4-5 since

Watching a different game if they think Hannebery "stepped past" the ball - he was beaten to it fair and square and squibbed it.
 

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