What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 3

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BrisDog

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I have just read Mick Warner’s book “The Boys Club”. It is a very good read. The book basically follows Demetriou and Gil’s time as AFL CEO’s and the cover-ups and corruption including Essendon’s doping scandal and other dodgy happenings. He devotes a chapter to Michael Talia leaking Bulldog intel to his brother Daniel before the 2015 EF. The specific information related to the changed role for Tory Dickson in the 2015 EF and Jake Stringer’s role/match-ups for that game. In short - it happened. The AFL helped cover it up due to the matter possibly having grave consequences on betting markets. Warner hates Demetriou with a passion and the rampant cronyism within the AFL, thus the title.

Definitely worth a purchase.

A49F7C18-C055-4B46-9D3C-DB651356522F.jpeg
 
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ScragCity

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I have just read Mick Warner’s book “The Boys Club”. It is a very good read. The book basically follows Demetriou and Gil’s time as AFL CEO’s and the cover-ups and corruption including Essendon’s doping scandal and other dodgy happenings. He devotes a chapter to Michael Talia leaking Bulldog intel to his brother Daniel before the 2015 EF. The specific information related to the changed role for Tory Dickson in the 2015 EF and Jake Stringer’s role/match-ups for that game. In short - it happened. The AFL helped cover it up due to the matter possibly having grave consequences on betting markets. Warner hates Demetriou with a passion and the rampant cronyism within the AFL, thus the title.

Definitely worth a purchase.
Holy sh*t. I'm gonna buy it now
 

footscray1973

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I have just read Mick Warner’s book “The Boys Club”. It is a very good read. The book basically follows Demetriou and Gil’s time as AFL CEO’s and the cover-ups and corruption including Essendon’s doping scandal and other dodgy happenings. He devotes a chapter to Michael Talia leaking Bulldog intel to his brother Daniel before the 2015 EF. The specific information related to the changed role for Tory Dickson in the 2015 EF and Jake Stringer’s role/match-ups for that game. In short - it happened. The AFL helped cover it up due to the matter possibly having grave consequences on betting markets. Warner hates Demetriou with a passion and the rampant cronyism within the AFL, thus the title.

Definitely worth a purchase.

View attachment 1283062
Bevo wouldn't allude to something publically if he wasn't sure of facts - we really should have taken that one further, but then again if we did, would 2016 have happened?
 

Golden_6

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Bevo wouldn't allude to something publically if he wasn't sure of facts - we really should have taken that one further, but then again if we did, would 2016 have happened?
Yeah it's a shocking look but sometimes you have to pick your battles. Regardless I don't feel it had any impact on the match at all. We came out and dominated the first 5-10 minutes with the first few goals and Tory kicked 5 for the game (with a Stringer hammy twinge). Unless there was more info indulged, it certainly wasn't the reason we lost.
 

footscray1973

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Yeah it's a shocking look but sometimes you have to pick your battles. Regardless I don't feel it had any impact on the match at all. We came out and dominated the first 5-10 minutes with the first few goals and Tory kicked 5 for the game (with a Stringer hammy twinge). Unless there was more info indulged, it certainly wasn't the reason we lost.
Agree, we didn't do ourselves any favour with our inaccuracy - started the 3rd quarter kicking 1.5 in the first 12 mins.
Crameri 2.5 for the game, Bont's 2 misses in that 3rd. After Stringer's goal in the last we were actually 8 points up, having kicked 4.1 in the first half of the final quarter, then just couldn't score after that.

I wonder if Bevo thought we should have scored more in the first if Crows weren't aware of the forward setup? As it is, we kicked the first 3 goals of the game and like you said dominated that period, and then Betts got on a roll with 3 for the rest of the quarter for them to lead at 1/4 time.

When we were 8 points up in the final quarter, it was 8 more scoring shots 14.17 to 14.9, then Crows had 6 of the last 7 scores after that, kicking 2.4 to 0.1. In hindsight, that last 15 minutes was effectively a choke by predominantly a young team who's average age was masked by 30+ Boyd, Minson, Morris and Murphy. 12 months on, 14 of that team were able to change the course of history!

Edit: not wanting to traumatise anyone on here, so if you watch this I'd suggest stopping at 5:06 when Stringer puts us 8 points up, but while there were some highlights for us (Jong's hanger is one), the way we allowed them to leave the forward line open for Betts to work in, and neither Morris nor Wood could perform the heroics of 12 months later was a major factor. BT even says in the commentary that after our opening onslaught we proceeded to kick 2.8 whilst Crows were nailing almost every chance. Familiar story really.


Imagine if we had a goalkicking coach over the past 6 seasons with the amount of scoring we generate! (Sorry, I know that's been done to death, but it is just such an obvious tweak to our game given our degree of inaccuracy in Bevo's tenure, apart from 2015.

Here's part of some analysis I did a few years ago with recent seasons added - 4 of Bevo's seasons have had a negative accuracy differential to our season opposition, and 2 seasons with less than 50% goal scoring accuracy ourselves:

1637285113403.png


Sorry, I've gone off on one of my rambles again, straying way off topic!
 
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bobs head soup

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Still have never watched that game. Can’t bring myself to go back.
I would feel the same if it didn't lead to 2016. It's a fabulous game to watch despite the last 5 minutes burning. Watching Bont, Jack and co lighting it up their first time on a really big stage is quite joyful.
 

footscray1973

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Here's part of some analysis I did a few years ago with recent seasons added - 4 of Bevo's seasons have had a negative accuracy differential to our season opposition, and 2 seasons with less than 50% goal scoring accuracy ourselves:

View attachment 1283309
Seeing I've gone this far, what's some more off-topic analysis?!

Interesting the comparison of results under different coaches, which while influenced by list composition and ability, still throws up some interesting trends.

For all his deficiencies as a coach (and losing captain Grant for a season), Rohde teams generated decent scoring numbers - in fact in 2004 in 22 games we had more scoring shots that in 2021 in 26 games under Bevo!

Eade peaked with his forward setup of smalls and mediums in 08 and 09, and a scoring accuracy that never dipped below 54%, a number Bevo has only ever matched in 2015!

McCartney sides just struggled to score full stop - just over 1400 scoring shots 'for' in 3 seasons, while opposition 1750+ 'against' - no surprise there - the goals never did look after themselves!

Bevo's teams have predominantly generated more scoring shots than the opposition (apart from 2018) but have also mostly been more inaccurate.

Anyway, stats as they say can be interpreted many ways.
 

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footscray1973

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I never rewatch our defeats :(.
By and large I don't either, but make exceptions for 60s, 70s and early 80s, just to remember what Schultz, Whitten, Dempsey, Quinlan, Templeton, etc were like in full flight. Not a lot of victories amongst the games available on youtube, FNWB, etc from those days. :(
 

footscray1973

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Seeing I've gone this far, what's some more off-topic analysis?!

Interesting the comparison of results under different coaches, which while influenced by list composition and ability, still throws up some interesting trends.

For all his deficiencies as a coach (and losing captain Grant for a season), Rohde teams generated decent scoring numbers - in fact in 2004 in 22 games we had more scoring shots that in 2021 in 26 games under Bevo!

Eade peaked with his forward setup of smalls and mediums in 08 and 09, and a scoring accuracy that never dipped below 54%, a number Bevo has only ever matched in 2015!

McCartney sides just struggled to score full stop - just over 1400 scoring shots 'for' in 3 seasons, while opposition 1750+ 'against' - no surprise there - the goals never did look after themselves!

Bevo's teams have predominantly generated more scoring shots than the opposition (apart from 2018) but have also mostly been more inaccurate.

Anyway, stats as they say can be interpreted many ways.
I'm a dunder-head! I just realised stats were for H&A games only! Think I might update my stats and post in a more relevant goalkicking thread!
 

Dogs_R_Us

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By and large I don't either, but make exceptions for 60s, 70s and early 80s, just to remember what Schultz, Whitten, Dempsey, Quinlan, Templeton, etc were like in full flight. Not a lot of victories amongst the games available on youtube, FNWB, etc from those days. :(
I've even got some older games - 90s and early 2000s - on VHS tapes, thinking of chucking them.
 

threenewpadlocks

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Teams don't win and lose for solely one reason everyone, otherwise there'd never be a match where teams kicked poorly and still won.

The specific inside info pertained to Stringer carrying the injury into the game. Meant they didn't worry about him as much. Dickson could have kicked 10 if they were more focused on stopping Stringer. Being facecious but the point still remains.
 

footscray1973

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Teams don't win and lose for solely one reason everyone, otherwise there'd never be a match where teams kicked poorly and still won.

The specific inside info pertained to Stringer carrying the injury into the game. Meant they didn't worry about him as much. Dickson could have kicked 10 if they were more focused on stopping Stringer. Being facecious but the point still remains.
I don't think anyone is suggesting a single reason for any loss, given the 2015 elim final in the last two pages of posts has already been partly attributed to Crows intelligence, but also scoring accuracy and I also alluded to our largely inexperienced team as well.
 

Oliver Gigacz

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Agree, we didn't do ourselves any favour with our inaccuracy - started the 3rd quarter kicking 1.5 in the first 12 mins.
Crameri 2.5 for the game, Bont's 2 misses in that 3rd. After Stringer's goal in the last we were actually 8 points up, having kicked 4.1 in the first half of the final quarter, then just couldn't score after that.

I wonder if Bevo thought we should have scored more in the first if Crows weren't aware of the forward setup? As it is, we kicked the first 3 goals of the game and like you said dominated that period, and then Betts got on a roll with 3 for the rest of the quarter for them to lead at 1/4 time.

When we were 8 points up in the final quarter, it was 8 more scoring shots 14.17 to 14.9, then Crows had 6 of the last 7 scores after that, kicking 2.4 to 0.1. In hindsight, that last 15 minutes was effectively a choke by predominantly a young team who's average age was masked by 30+ Boyd, Minson, Morris and Murphy. 12 months on, 14 of that team were able to change the course of history!

Edit: not wanting to traumatise anyone on here, so if you watch this I'd suggest stopping at 5:06 when Stringer puts us 8 points up, but while there were some highlights for us (Jong's hanger is one), the way we allowed them to leave the forward line open for Betts to work in, and neither Morris nor Wood could perform the heroics of 12 months later was a major factor. BT even says in the commentary that after our opening onslaught we proceeded to kick 2.8 whilst Crows were nailing almost every chance. Familiar story really.


Imagine if we had a goalkicking coach over the past 6 seasons with the amount of scoring we generate! (Sorry, I know that's been done to death, but it is just such an obvious tweak to our game given our degree of inaccuracy in Bevo's tenure, apart from 2015.

Here's part of some analysis I did a few years ago with recent seasons added - 4 of Bevo's seasons have had a negative accuracy differential to our season opposition, and 2 seasons with less than 50% goal scoring accuracy ourselves:

View attachment 1283309

Sorry, I've gone off on one of my rambles again, straying way off topic!
Just to illustrate further on how poor our goalkicking has been, here is a breakdown of each season since Bevo took over with goal accuracy (all shots) along with competition ranking compared to expected accuracy and expected ranking.

2015: 51.4% (7th) - Expected: 50.5% (5th)
2016
: 47.5% (16th) - Expected: 48.7% (15th)
2017
: 43.1% (18th) - Expected: 47.5% (15th)
2018
: 43.3% (17th) - Expected: 48.6% (7th)
2019
: 45.3% (13th) - Expected: 48.3% (7th)
2020
: 45.7% (12th) - Expected: 48.7% (6th)
2021
: 48.0% (9th) - Expected: 48.6% (7th)

We have not been in the top 8 for goal accuracy since 2015 and just look at the recent differences and especially 2018 where we ranked 17th for accuracy but were expected (based on the shots we had) to rank 7th.
 

footscray1973

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Just to illustrate further on how poor our goalkicking has been, here is a breakdown of each season since Bevo took over with goal accuracy (all shots) along with competition ranking compared to expected accuracy and expected ranking.

2015: 51.4% (7th) - Expected: 50.5% (5th)
2016
: 47.5% (16th) - Expected: 48.7% (15th)
2017
: 43.1% (18th) - Expected: 47.5% (15th)
2018
: 43.3% (17th) - Expected: 48.6% (7th)
2019
: 45.3% (13th) - Expected: 48.3% (7th)
2020
: 45.7% (12th) - Expected: 48.7% (6th)
2021
: 48.0% (9th) - Expected: 48.6% (7th)

We have not been in the top 8 for goal accuracy since 2015 and just look at the recent differences and especially 2018 where we ranked 17th for accuracy but were expected (based on the shots we had) to rank 7th.
2015 was a real outlier in this regard. Would be curious to see the club identify what the possible cause (or causes) is/are. Eade had a skilled bunch of small and medium forwards, as an example here is the 2008 list sorted by goals kicked - all other than Hill had decent accuracy stats. I would class Johnson, Aker, Welsh, Murphy (2008 version), Hahn and Hill as forwards, Gia predominantly a forward, but all with good accuracy:

1637298172777.png


Top 13 from 2018 - Stringer a forward going at less than 50%, and overall don't stack up well against 2008:

1637298265269.png


Is it personnel (Dickson only 9 games in 2018), less genuine goal-kicking forwards, game plan, forward setup and coaching, some or all of the above?

Regardless of the answer, surely there is some merit to devising strategies to improve the results - the repercussions for close games and percentage should be enough alone to address it. At least, that's how I see it.
 

gangsta deluxe

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