What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 3

Hard Ball Get

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Yet if a player is photographed having a beer (e.g. Steven May earlier this year) all hell breaks loose.
They're still humans not robots.
May is a little different. Came back out of shape and in poor condition which translated to poor form. You're always going to get attention if you're not upholding your end of the bargain.
 

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TedDougChris

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May is a little different. Came back out of shape and in poor condition which translated to poor form. You're always going to get attention if you're not upholding your end of the bargain.
Particularly when you are highly paid, high profile recruit who has jumped ship from a poorly performing side to a premiership contender (lol)....

If that’s how GC leaders approached recovery and preparation, no wonder they have been garbage to date....
 

Mr. Walker

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Agreed, putting too much pressure on them, they're young adult males with too much money to know what to do with, with a bunch of other young blokes who would probably prefer to be out drinking on the weekends then training and sacrificing there social life for most of the the year, let them have there fun ffs, it's a part of life.
Yes they are young adult males with too much money ..... because they signed up to play in the AFL. The same AFL that requires them to disclose their whereabouts. For me its simple, when you sign on you sign on to both the salary and the rules.
 

compact72

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Uhh They're missing the PED test?

You people forget that they can load up on performance enhancing drugs during off season which could benefit them in the actual season? Of course they're going to test in the off season



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Mattdougie

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Uhh They're missing the PED test?

You people forget that they can load up on performance enhancing drugs during off season which could benefit them in the actual season? Of course they're going to test in the off season



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PEDS are detectable for much longer periods then illicit drugs.

Most that give you any real improvements can be traced through urine for 4 to 6 weeks and can be found in follicle tests for months
 

compact72

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PEDS are detectable for much longer periods then illicit drugs.

Most that give you any real improvements can be traced through urine for 4 to 6 weeks and can be found in follicle tests for months
They only do follicles if found guilty? Pretty sure it's urine most of the time (could be wrong)

It would be interesting to see how often they're tested off season

Illicit drugs shouldn't be tested, but PED should 100% in off season
 

Mattdougie

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They only do follicles if found guilty? Pretty sure it's urine most of the time (could be wrong)

It would be interesting to see how often they're tested off season

Illicit drugs shouldn't be tested, but PED should 100% in off season
i think the testing per player is completely random

One of my mates that was in the system for 5 years and was never tested by he said some players seem to be tested quite regularly and not the players you would expect.

I believe Joel Selwood has admitted to being tested over 20 times and he isn’t the type of guy anyone would expect to fail a test
 

Doggstats

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PEDS are detectable for much longer periods then illicit drugs.

Most that give you any real improvements can be traced through urine for 4 to 6 weeks and can be found in follicle tests for months
That's just blatantly not true. PEDs used these days have incredibly short half lives and detection windows (if detectable at all) especially when micro dosing. We're talking peptide hormones(HGH, EPO and IGF-1) and testosterone.

EPO has a half life of just a couple of hours and HGH has a ridiculously short half life of just 10-20 minutes. There's a reason not a single Essendon player failed a drug test, same as Marion Jones and same as Lance Armstrong (who was micro dosing all 3 of HGH, EPO and testosterone, injecting intravenously to shorten the half life even more) who was tested over 200 times during his career.

No modern athlete is using the synthetic anabolic steroids of the past that were much easier to detect and stayed in the system for much longer.
 

House_of_Dahl

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That's just blatantly not true. PEDs used these days have incredibly short half lives and detection windows (if detectable at all) especially when micro dosing. We're talking peptide hormones(HGH, EPO and IGF-1) and testosterone.

EPO has a half life of just a couple of hours and HGH has a ridiculously short half life of just 10-20 minutes. There's a reason not a single Essendon player failed a drug test, same as Marion Jones and same as Lance Armstrong (who was micro dosing all 3 of HGH, EPO and testosterone, injecting intravenously to shorten the half life even more) who was tested over 200 times during his career.

No modern athlete is using the synthetic anabolic steroids of the past that were much easier to detect and stayed in the system for much longer.
Yet smoking a joint can show up a month later. Infuriates me that recreational drugs are tested for (perhaps some like speed and coke could be deemed performance enhancing if used on game days which would be fair enough to check). But testing if someone has taken recreational drugs in the off season is totally irrelevant and a massive unnecessary invasion of civil liberties IMO. A better case for testing police and politicians for that than AFL players...
 

MrChristo

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Yet smoking a joint can show up a month later. Infuriates me that recreational drugs are tested for (perhaps some like speed and coke could be deemed performance enhancing if used on game days which would be fair enough to check). But testing if someone has taken recreational drugs in the off season is totally irrelevant and a massive unnecessary invasion of civil liberties IMO. A better case for testing police and politicians for that than AFL players...
...For the results to be locked away in a vault, never to be seen, thus ensuring that the only benefit of testing (imo, offering someone help if they have a serious problem) is denied anyway.

Agree. Horrible policy.
 

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Sentinel

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That's just blatantly not true. PEDs used these days have incredibly short half lives and detection windows (if detectable at all) especially when micro dosing. We're talking peptide hormones(HGH, EPO and IGF-1) and testosterone.

EPO has a half life of just a couple of hours and HGH has a ridiculously short half life of just 10-20 minutes. There's a reason not a single Essendon player failed a drug test, same as Marion Jones and same as Lance Armstrong (who was micro dosing all 3 of HGH, EPO and testosterone, injecting intravenously to shorten the half life even more) who was tested over 200 times during his career.

No modern athlete is using the synthetic anabolic steroids of the past that were much easier to detect and stayed in the system for much longer.
Yeah, this. The challenge for groups like ASADA and WADA is to keep up with the cheaters, who are almost always one step ahead, which includes both method of detection and window to detect.

The very clever people working to produce these substances aren't working for AFL footballers but their products do quickly become available for them.
 

Mattdougie

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That's just blatantly not true. PEDs used these days have incredibly short half lives and detection windows (if detectable at all) especially when micro dosing. We're talking peptide hormones(HGH, EPO and IGF-1) and testosterone.

EPO has a half life of just a couple of hours and HGH has a ridiculously short half life of just 10-20 minutes. There's a reason not a single Essendon player failed a drug test, same as Marion Jones and same as Lance Armstrong (who was micro dosing all 3 of HGH, EPO and testosterone, injecting intravenously to shorten the half life even more) who was tested over 200 times during his career.

No modern athlete is using the synthetic anabolic steroids of the past that were much easier to detect and stayed in the system for much longer.
Well that’s not what the WADA literature says but I assume you know better so my error

we are talking about individual players not multi million dollar international teams or countries trying to cheat the system
 

Mattdougie

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So what does the WADA literature say? Got a link?
no I don’t read shit like that in the net

it’s contained on a report from the french medical board detailed to wada in jan 2019

my friend who is a chemist had it for her research purposes and I read some of it

If you are talking about the very very high level peds and such then you are indeed correct they are at times undiscoverable buy I doubt very much single AFL players have any access to that quality or line of peds and in fact most probably haven’t even reached this country yet
 

LittleG

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no I don’t read shit like that in the net

it’s contained on a report from the french medical board detailed to wada in jan 2019

my friend who is a chemist had it for her research purposes and I read some of it

If you are talking about the very very high level peds and such then you are indeed correct they are at times undiscoverable buy I doubt very much single AFL players have any access to that quality or line of peds and in fact most probably haven’t even reached this country yet
A friend who was a semi-professional cyclist, had the good stuff. After two weeks, shaved 18% off the track time. Said that the added muscle just piled on. Got busted via the overseas supplier, second offence, was banned for life. Never cheated someone out of a medal but was on track to get an Olympic birth.

That stuff was good but probably be at least 3 years behind the Europeans.... those road cyclists.... it’s unnatural to climb mountain passes that fast.
 

Doggstats

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no I don’t read shit like that in the net

it’s contained on a report from the french medical board detailed to wada in jan 2019

my friend who is a chemist had it for her research purposes and I read some of it
So could you share with us what information this special report contained? Or at least explain how it contradicted anything I said?

If you are talking about the very very high level peds and such then you are indeed correct they are at times undiscoverable buy I doubt very much single AFL players have any access to that quality or line of peds and in fact most probably haven’t even reached this country yet
No offence MD, but you clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Not only have these PEDs "reached this country" a long time ago, but anyone can get there hands on them from a number of anti-aging clinics which prescribe human growth hormone, peptides / growth hormone secretagogues, and even testosterone.
Eg. Shane Charter the convicted drug dealer who supplied Dank and Essendon worked on the side at a prominent Melbourne anti-ageing clinic under the alias Dr.Ageless, where he supplied HGH and peptides to several former AFL footballers, television celebrities, nightclub figures and security staff.

You can also just as easily source any number of different peptides, HGH, test and other PEDs on the internet.

But you probably won't believe a word I say anyway so here's Chris Judd explaining it for you (from a Age article on drug testing);

"It is widely accepted that there is not currently an accurate test for human growth hormone,
or micro-doses of plant-based testosterone, through creams, patches and injections.
Therefore, the next generation of drug cheats will be caught via surveillance of gyms,
anti-aging clinics and internet purchases, not by urine or blood tests."


 

Mattdougie

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So could you share with us what information this special report contained? Or at least explain how it contradicted anything I said?



No offence MD, but you clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Not only have these PEDs "reached this country" a long time ago, but anyone can get there hands on them from a number of anti-aging clinics which prescribe human growth hormone, peptides / growth hormone secretagogues, and even testosterone.
Eg. Shane Charter the convicted drug dealer who supplied Dank and Essendon worked on the side at a prominent Melbourne anti-ageing clinic under the alias Dr.Ageless, where he supplied HGH and peptides to several former AFL footballers, television celebrities, nightclub figures and security staff.

You can also just as easily source any number of different peptides, HGH, test and other PEDs on the internet.

But you probably won't believe a word I say anyway so here's Chris Judd explaining it for you (from a Age article on drug testing);

"It is widely accepted that there is not currently an accurate test for human growth hormone,
or micro-doses of plant-based testosterone, through creams, patches and injections.
Therefore, the next generation of drug cheats will be caught via surveillance of gyms,
anti-aging clinics and internet purchases, not by urine or blood tests."


No I don’t know fu** all about peptides but I’m pretty sure WADA do and you were discussing the new gen peptides that are basically invisible not general peptides that are available pretty much anywhere including local gym such as Derrimut. Sorry next time the AFL require any drug information they should call you and not WADA.

but I’m used to people twisting the conversation. I’m here against me to suit their needs so more power to you mate. Anyway cheers for dis using something wasn’t it makes the threads so much better.

if you think a singular AFL player has access to the new Peptides out of Europe that you were originally discussing then I simply disagree with you And there is no evidence they have reached this country ON MASS as of yet

Ps you mean Chris “training wheels” Judd and his well respected info? Lol okay
 

ossie_21

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So could you share with us what information this special report contained? Or at least explain how it contradicted anything I said?



No offence MD, but you clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Not only have these PEDs "reached this country" a long time ago, but anyone can get there hands on them from a number of anti-aging clinics which prescribe human growth hormone, peptides / growth hormone secretagogues, and even testosterone.
Eg. Shane Charter the convicted drug dealer who supplied Dank and Essendon worked on the side at a prominent Melbourne anti-ageing clinic under the alias Dr.Ageless, where he supplied HGH and peptides to several former AFL footballers, television celebrities, nightclub figures and security staff.

You can also just as easily source any number of different peptides, HGH, test and other PEDs on the internet.

But you probably won't believe a word I say anyway so here's Chris Judd explaining it for you (from a Age article on drug testing);

"It is widely accepted that there is not currently an accurate test for human growth hormone,
or micro-doses of plant-based testosterone, through creams, patches and injections.
Therefore, the next generation of drug cheats will be caught via surveillance of gyms,
anti-aging clinics and internet purchases, not by urine or blood tests."


Don't bother with logic, it's not comprehended.
 

Mattdougie

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Attempting to compare the PEDS Charter and Dank used to today’s generation peptides is like comparing a Kia to a Ferrari.

Until the AFL changed its self reporting program(after the Essendon saga) players had the ability to do this with no testing then required. People seem to forget that they only had to admit to illicit substances and there was no way to know what they actually took or how much. Using simple logic this would mean that there would most likely have been players using PEDS that could admit to taking coke(for example) when in fact they had not even touched it but were taking a course of PEDS.

The drug that essendon finally got do for was detectable in urine and blood so again even using them as a comparison to some of today’s that are undetectable even hours after dosage is laughably off topic

It’s become the new fad in here to just branch off the conversation to something that wasn’t even part of the initial one when the opposing view is not one of the clique, and then cry foul and point at the opposition because that’s just them and they always ruin threads. It’s no longer the subject of debate only the subject debater that is relevant.
 

Outback Footy

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Why is there even discussion? The players in question stuffed up and should be held to account. I agree with Richmmond it should be the players not the club. I understand how they could have done it, they could simply have changed plans, been distracted, travel plans change when you meet people, find something new to look at etc etc.

Doesnt matter.

They probably havent done anything wrong, maybe they have.

Doesnt matter.

They have a responsibility to be where they said they would be or to let people know their plans had changed. Thats it. Everything else at this stage is irrelevant. Except that it should be the players who are accountable not the club. Hopefully the club requires a donation from the players in question back to the club.
 

Norm De Guerre

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Why is there even discussion? The players in question stuffed up and should be held to account. I agree with Richmmond it should be the players not the club. I understand how they could have done it, they could simply have changed plans, been distracted, travel plans change when you meet people, find something new to look at etc etc.

Doesnt matter.

They probably havent done anything wrong, maybe they have.

Doesnt matter.

They have a responsibility to be where they said they would be or to let people know their plans had changed. Thats it. Everything else at this stage is irrelevant. Except that it should be the players who are accountable not the club. Hopefully the club requires a donation from the players in question back to the club.
The sanction was clearly about a day here and there missing from players travel schedules. I have no idea (actually I do) why it has morphed into a discussion about systematic doping and all that implies.
 

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