What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 3

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Northernsoul74 said:
I knew Mercedes vans had finished. Explains why no new merchandise/kit is available which I thought was a big miss for Xmas. I put it down to COVID and manufacturing issues but lack of a major sponsor might be why.
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Bont has had his Merc repossessed? 😱
 

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Is the Tim English putting on a couple of kg's, the new 'Shaun Higgings is training the house down' meme that the media used to s**t out every summer?
 
Hobdog said:
I could be talking complete rubbish but I think Mercedes Vans are pulling out of the Australian market


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Mercedes UTES certainly are going to be disappearing, but couldn't tell you on the vans side.
 
Norm De Guerre said:
Is the Tim English putting on a couple of kg's, the new 'Shaun Higgings is training the house down' meme that the media used to sh*t out every summer?
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No its the Essendon will make finals 48 pages each week of Herald Sun Sport
 
Champion data released their elite rankings for players and they are horrendous.

included as elite: mason cox, wingard, Sam Walsh, Motlop, Lyons, Oscar Allen

we are equal most with 5: Dunkley, Williams, Bont, Daniel and Hunter.

Would have macrae as elite over Dunkley and even though Williams had a break out year hardly elite
 
Doggies_13 said:
Champion data released their elite rankings for players and they are horrendous.

included as elite: mason cox, wingard, Sam Walsh, Motlop, Lyons, Oscar Allen

we are equal most with 5: Dunkley, Williams, Bont, Daniel and Hunter.

Would have macrae as elite over Dunkley and even though Williams had a break out year hardly elite
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Yeah West Coast forward line has Darling and Allen as elite and Kennedy not. Just baffling.
 
Doggies_13 said:
Champion data released their elite rankings for players and they are horrendous.

included as elite: mason cox, wingard, Sam Walsh, Motlop, Lyons, Oscar Allen

we are equal most with 5: Dunkley, Williams, Bont, Daniel and Hunter.

Would have macrae as elite over Dunkley and even though Williams had a break out year hardly elite
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Everyone that works for champion data must be doing some powerful drugs Mason Cox ELITE I think not
 

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Most of the players classified as elite when you wouldn't expect them do seem to be the types that are classified as one position but spend a lot of time in another. McEvoy gets stats like an above average key defender, but as they've categorised him as a ruck he's getting better stats than everyone else in his 'position'. Cox and Allen get the same but as key forwards. Fisher and Walsh don't seem elite but maybe because they're above average in so many categories that's enough? Motlop makes 0 sense to me. What a s**t system.
 
Boyd oh Boyd said:
Most of the players classified as elite when you wouldn't expect them do seem to be the types that are classified as one position but spend a lot of time in another. McEvoy gets stats like an above average key defender, but as they've categorised him as a ruck he's getting better stats than everyone else in his 'position'. Cox and Allen get the same but as key forwards. Fisher and Walsh don't seem elite but maybe because they're above average in so many categories that's enough? Motlop makes 0 sense to me. What a sh*t system.
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Quite often Champion Data will put huge weight into specific stats for each position. For example, for Key Forwards, goalkicking accuracy and contested marking are two very important stats. Mason Cox rates elite in both (kicked 14.2 in 11 games, and averaged over 2 contested marks per game). Never mind that he's grossly lacking in other areas, these two areas could have been enough to lift him to elite status. Highly flawed, but that's generally how they function and is a common occurrence when you rely so heavily on what amounts to simplistic stats.

As an example from the Dogs, Bailey Williams ranked reasonably high among defenders (non-key) for score launches (2nd), metres gained (7th), rebound 50s (4th), intercept marks (10th) and score involvements (6th). He was statistically one of the best attacking defenders in 2020, even if he wasn't even in the conversation for AA. Only thing I find strange with this is that Jayden Short basically matches him in all these areas, yet wasn't rated elite. Must have been borderline
 
Virgin Dog said:
Quite often Champion Data will put huge weight into specific stats for each position. For example, for Key Forwards, goalkicking accuracy and contested marking are two very important stats. Mason Cox rates elite in both (kicked 14.2 in 11 games, and averaged over 2 contested marks per game). Never mind that he's grossly lacking in other areas, these two areas could have been enough to lift him to elite status. Highly flawed, but that's generally how they function and is a common occurrence when you rely so heavily on what amounts to simplistic stats.

As an example from the Dogs, Bailey Williams ranked reasonably high among defenders (non-key) for score launches (2nd), metres gained (7th), rebound 50s (4th), intercept marks (10th) and score involvements (6th). He was statistically one of the best attacking defenders in 2020, even if he wasn't even in the conversation for AA. Only thing I find strange with this is that Jayden Short basically matches him in all these areas, yet wasn't rated elite. Must have been borderline
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^This. The system they use relies WAY too heavily on what position the player is rated on. I know it's very hard to find a system that covers pretty much everything but I personally find this one the worst.

Dreamteam is just old and doesn't cover enough.
AFL Player Ratings rely way too much on accuracy and heavily penalise kicking/handballing backwards so a lot of mids miss out.
Champion Data Player Ratings see what Virgin Dog said above
Champion Data Ranking Points (Supercoach) is generally okay but does overcompensate ruck/mids while key positions can miss out but not always. It's been 12 years since it was last tweaked and it's probably time for another.

The best metric really is the eyes and brain but out of these Ranking Points are probably the closest we've got statistically to that at the moment.
 
Virgin Dog said:
Quite often Champion Data will put huge weight into specific stats for each position. For example, for Key Forwards, goalkicking accuracy and contested marking are two very important stats. Mason Cox rates elite in both (kicked 14.2 in 11 games, and averaged over 2 contested marks per game). Never mind that he's grossly lacking in other areas, these two areas could have been enough to lift him to elite status. Highly flawed, but that's generally how they function and is a common occurrence when you rely so heavily on what amounts to simplistic stats.

As an example from the Dogs, Bailey Williams ranked reasonably high among defenders (non-key) for score launches (2nd), metres gained (7th), rebound 50s (4th), intercept marks (10th) and score involvements (6th). He was statistically one of the best attacking defenders in 2020, even if he wasn't even in the conversation for AA. Only thing I find strange with this is that Jayden Short basically matches him in all these areas, yet wasn't rated elite. Must have been borderline
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Good point. Who knows what metrics they are using for each position... :shrug:
 
Oliver Gigacz said:
^This. The system they use relies WAY too heavily on what position the player is rated on. I know it's very hard to find a system that covers pretty much everything but I personally find this one the worst.

Dreamteam is just old and doesn't cover enough.
AFL Player Ratings rely way too much on accuracy and heavily penalise kicking/handballing backwards so a lot of mids miss out.
Champion Data Player Ratings see what Virgin Dog said above
Champion Data Ranking Points (Supercoach) is generally okay but does overcompensate ruck/mids while key positions can miss out but not always. It's been 12 years since it was last tweaked and it's probably time for another.

The best metric really is the eyes and brain but out of these Ranking Points are probably the closest we've got statistically to that at the moment.
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I don't like that Ranking Points has a finite number of points per game. That doesn't really make sense as a statistical model to me (Although I understand why they do it). Secondly, the adjustment for "game-winning" actions like clutch goals, etc. Again doesn't make sense in a statistical model.

Do you have any additional information regarding the penalty of disposing backwards in AFL ratings? I could see why that would make sense if they have simulated (or tested) scoring likelihood of possession position/direction and weight the possession with respect to that model. At least it would be based on data.
 
BEaston said:
I don't like that Ranking Points has a finite number of points per game. That doesn't really make sense as a statistical model to me (Although I understand why they do it). Secondly, the adjustment for "game-winning" actions like clutch goals, etc. Again doesn't make sense in a statistical model.

Do you have any additional information regarding the penalty of disposing backwards in AFL ratings? I could see why that would make sense if they have simulated (or tested) scoring likelihood of possession position/direction and weight the possession with respect to that model. At least it would be based on data.
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I believe it's around 0.4 points for anything backwards.

I agree with your points regarding Ranking Ponts, however out of all the systems it's the one that generally comes close to what I would have as the best 44 on the ground.
 
:think:
Lakey fined $900 for poking a Crown security guard in the nose. He was fined more for not mowing his nature strip last year - $1200

1612587813258.png
 
Fossie 32 said:
:think:
Lakey fined $900 for poking a Crown security guard in the nose. He was fined more for not mowing his nature strip last year - $1200

View attachment 1052584
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I must say I'm shocked and appalled at Lakey's heartless negligence in regards to his front nature strip. Letting those blades of grass just horridly grow is clearly a window looking onto a cracked and broken soul bereft of any redeeming qualities whatsoever.
 
Adam Treloar’s burning ambition after Magpies dumping
Adam Treloar is desperate to show why he is an elite AFL player, starting against Collingwood in Round 1. Get the latest on his progress plus news on Josh Dunkley and Lachie Hunter.

Jon Ralph

4 min read
February 7, 2021 - 3:01PM
News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom

Adam Treloar has a “point to prove” and is ready to regain the football world’s respect starting from Round 1 against former side Collingwood, according to Dogs assistant Steven King.
And senior Western Bulldogs assistant King says Lachie Hunter and Josh Dunkley have both wowed their teammates with their dedication this summer after difficult journeys through the 2020 season.

As midfield coach King is the man who will have to juggle the midfield time of a Dogs side that kept want-away midfielder Dunkley but also acquired Treloar from Collingwood.

Few players have ever been turfed out of a club in such a public and torturous manner, and King says Treloar’s summer had reflected that brutal reality.

“I am so glad we don’t have to play against him. He has a history of bursting through traffic against us and it’s so exciting to have someone of his experience and competitiveness,” he told the Herald Sun.

“He is super diligent and wants to fit in, and with the way he has worked you can see he has got a point to prove. He wants to show the boys what he has got.

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[PLAYERCARD]Adam Treloar[/PLAYERCARD] is doing everything to impress his new Bulldogs teammates.

Adam Treloar is doing everything to impress his new Bulldogs teammates.
“He is a bit more uncomfortable in a new environment and internally you want to prove yourself to the new coaches and fan base, and any player who does that can reignite their career.

“He has been pretty resilient. We backed him off a bit early for our medical team to get across everything, but he’s been really good to date and building up to be available for the first praccy game.”

Coach Luke Beveridge said November Lachie Hunter faced “some challenges in the future” after a torrid year that saw him suspended by the club and losing his vice captaincy after crashing his vehicle into some parked cars.

But King said the elite midfielder, who also missed time for personal reasons later in the season, had set the scene for a bounce-back year.

“There is a different feel about Lachie this year. He was pretty disappointed in some of the things that happened last year and the way it panned out.

“He is a very important leader to the club on the field with the way he sees the game, he’s almost another coach, and the standard he has set has been really high since he got back. He has primed himself for a big year.”

[PLAYERCARD]Adam Treloar[/PLAYERCARD] and [PLAYERCARD]Josh Dunkley[/PLAYERCARD] run laps at Whitten Oval.

Adam Treloar and Josh Dunkley run laps at Whitten Oval.
Dunkley played only 12 games due to an ankle injury and despite a public trade request the Dogs held firm, setting the scene for a year of intrigue about how much midfield time he will be handed.

“He has been unbelievable,” said King.

“Even going through the process, Dunks is a pro and it’s amazing how 20 years ago how big a deal it could have been. But the professionalism now is so high. The players are so welcoming and they have made it as comfortable as they can. He has led by example from day one and presented himself well and is working so hard at training.

“Reflecting on his year, he had that bad syndesmosis and we asked him to fill a role in the ruck and he was so team-oriented that he accepted it, but we won’t do it this year.

“We will share the load with all our mids and with his forward craft and ability to cover ground he will play multiple positions for us and he will be accepting of that.”


THE KING’S SPEECH: DOGS ASSISTANT COACH ON ...

Why Marcus Bontempelli will spend more time forward this year:

“Bonty and Jack Macrae are excited about challenging themselves when they aren’t in the middle. Even exploring 75 interchanges, guys will come up for longer but also go forward.

“He is excited about hitting the scoreboard more and has put a mountain of time into his game and forward craft. We know about his front-half connections and finishing but if he adds to that firepower he can take his game to a new level.”

[PLAYERCARD]Marcus Bontempelli[/PLAYERCARD] and [PLAYERCARD]Bailey Smith[/PLAYERCARD] are part of the Dogs’ deep midfield.

Marcus Bontempelli and Bailey Smith are part of the Dogs’ deep midfield.
Why the Dogs plan to play two rucks for most of the year:

“I think we can do it most of the time. Stef Martin has taken Tim (English) under his wing with what he does in the gym and how he watches vision. They can share the load. Tim was really good in patches but got worn down a bit. What Tim is doing forward of the ball is quite exciting. He can run and launch at the footy and he’s a really viable long-term option forward of the ball. Him and Stef can share that load but we will wait and see how it goes.”

The club’s injuries:

“Toby McLean is coming back from an ACL and Riley Garcia is building back up (after knee surgery). Mitch Hannan had some groin issues, so we are resetting him after some groin soreness he carried in the past and Taylor Duryea had a quad injury, but he was back in training (on Friday), so touch wood we are going well.”

Not rushing No.1 draft pick Jamar Ugle-Hagan:

“Like all boys drafted this year he hasn’t played a game for over a year and he is seeing the way elite athletes train and it’s been an eye-opener how demanding the sessions are. He is the No.1 pick, but he is still absorbing the volumes and load of sessions. He is leading how to back up and recover and finding his feet, but he’s doing the little things that make you sit up and notice. He needs to keep putting on weight and learning.”

Jamarra Ugle-Hagan flies high.

Jamarra Ugle-Hagan flies high.
Why the new man-on-the-mark rule which forces the defender to stand still could be a game-changer:

“We haven’t had the umpires in yet, but we are trying to coach it ourselves and it’s going to be interesting to see how it flushes out. We are going to see a fair few 50m penalties early but also we will see players exploring opportunities with the ball and with handball receives and overlap run. It will open up the ground a fair bit and give players chances to take the ball back through the corridor. It’s certainly going to be interesting.”
 
Nice just needs a bit of Burning Up the Track in there :rainbow:
 
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