What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 4

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Next Waiting

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I'm not sure that heroin will ever approach a level of social acceptance that could invoke a change in the law. Apart from being a wrecking ball of the highest magnitude, it has a history of deployment for subdjugation.

Cocaine* on the other hand, may approach levels of social acceptance that encourages a relaxing of the law with appropriate education.

*always snort responsibly
 

BIG_BONTS

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I realise all of that but it is still legally 'wrong' to break the law so in a way it is 'wrong'.
So in this sense it is reasonable to say it is wrong to take illegal drugs, whether or not you can mount a moral, medical or any other case to say it is not wrong. And without the law telling you what to think.


That's interesting but I guess you could have added ' ....... don't ruin lives by themselves'. ?? - as you acknowledge in the next sentence that you know of people where they have ruined their lives. Fair point about tobacco but its like two wrongs don't make a right. Alcohol can obviously mess people up but its a tradition of centuries ..........
Yeah I think it’s fair to say that certain drugs did make their lives worse but it wasn’t the cause of their main issues. People seeking escape, wanting to avoid emotions etc. drugs were 20% of the problem but treated like it’s 80%.

Therapeutically these people could have been treated by legalising other types of drugs and other health services rather than fined, imprisoned or looked down on by society. Punishment (negative reinforcement) doesn’t change behaviour.
 

doggies ftw

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I'm not sure that heroin will ever approach a level of social acceptance that could invoke a change in the law. Apart from being a wrecking ball of the highest magnitude, it has a history of deployment for subdjugation.

Cocaine* on the other hand, may approach levels of social acceptance that encourages a relaxing of the law with appropriate education.

*always snort responsibly
You and your mates don’t get together on a lovely Saturday arvo to have a barby, chuck the cricket on and share a couple of spoons?
 

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Next Waiting

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You and your mates don’t get together on a lovely Saturday arvo to have a barby, chuck the cricket on and share a couple of spoons?
Not me and my mates, but no doubt some people and their mates.

However, I did find myself on campuses of higher education at times, and while I didn't inhale, I couldn't be unaware of the sweet sweet aroma
 

dogwatch

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Perhaps the word wrong is wrong in this case.

The Taliban banned employment and education for women and girls between 1996 and 2001. That seems wrong to us yet the girls/women would be wrong to undertake either according to Taliban law.

So it's more to do with legality under the prevailing system (which could be very wrong). And when the law changes, what was formerly wrong/illegal is suddenly all right/legal...overnight. Right or wrong seems like a trap. Legal or illegal which may change over time according to what we collectively believe to be right or wrong.

But the lag no doubt exists as Scrag said. What we believe or accept to be right (or at least OK/tolerable) is almost always ahead of the law, as the law eventually reflects, ever so slowly, social norms.
Are there no moral absolutes?
 

ScragCity

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When is a substance unfashionable and when is the same substance too dangerous to be left in the hands of private enterprise ? Alcohol's been a socially admired substance, it's importance ingrained into traditional as well as contemporary culture, despite minority addition, Stand for The Royal Toast, Gentlemen. Over centuries, respectable society has tamed alcohol, heroin and opium not able to be tamed. Alcohol and drugs aren't the same.

If there's a difference between alcohol and other depressive substances like opiates, then the difference is purely ideological and not pharmacological. 5,500 deaths and 150k+ hospital admissions in Australia per year from alcohol. I'd hardly call that "tamed." Nevermind the marriages, families and lives ruined. You think alcohol is different because you probably indulge in a few glasses daily and responsibly. You'd be surprised how many people manage to have functional habits with the drugs you consider to be worse. Just like alcohol, some people manage sustainable relationships with cocaine and even heroin (I was one of those). But just like alcohol, those drugs can help someone ruin their life quickly.
 

D Mitchell

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If there's a difference between alcohol and other depressive substances like opiates, then the difference is purely ideological and not pharmacological. 5,500 deaths and 150k+ hospital admissions in Australia per year from alcohol. I'd hardly call that "tamed." Nevermind the marriages, families and lives ruined. You think alcohol is different because you probably indulge in a few glasses daily and responsibly. You'd be surprised how many people manage to have functional habits with the drugs you consider to be worse. Just like alcohol, some people manage sustainable relationships with cocaine and even heroin (I was one of those). But just like alcohol, those drugs can help someone ruin their life quickly.
Without conceding anything, Scrag, consider meself slapped down by you and F32. When I've recovered from me latest arm puncture, I'll re consider.

Cheers and here's looking up your kilt.
 

Munnez

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Drugs in sport is not a good look for the AFL at any time particularly when it's that blatant. It's not like this kind of punishment hasn't happened before, Mumford received a similar punishment.
Brad Crouch and Tyson Stengle in an off season copped similar actually Stengle got 4 weeks due to previous drink driving incident
 

Dogs Rule

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So Smith gets two weeks for conduct unbecoming and De Goey nothing for alleged assault at a US nightclub in January and then again for (allegedly) misbehaving at another overseas nightclub mid season in June. 🤔
 

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dogwatch

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An excellent question. What do you think?:)
My instinct says yes but on reflection maybe it’s no.

Even the taking of a life can be justified on some moral grounds. The scriptures of various religions try to define moral absolutes (eg 10 Commandments) but they don’t work in every situation. It’s not uncommon to find two people each quoting the scriptures yet holding opposing views.

I think Utilitarianism recognises this conditional aspect of morality.

One could say “the greatest good for the greatest number” is the only moral certainty (which would be somewhat ironic) but its application is challenging. Who runs the spreadsheet that proves one cause represents a greater overall good than another? The Pope? The Dalai Lama? News Inc? Essendon FC?
 

Fossie 32

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My instinct says yes but on reflection maybe it’s no.

Even the taking of a life can be justified on some moral grounds. The scriptures of various religions try to define moral absolutes (eg 10 Commandments) but they don’t work in every situation. It’s not uncommon to find two people each quoting the scriptures yet holding opposing views.

I think Utilitarianism recognises this conditional aspect of morality.

One could say “the greatest good for the greatest number” is the only moral certainty (which would be somewhat ironic) but its application is challenging. Who runs the spreadsheet that proves one cause represents a greater overall good than another? The Pope? The Dalai Lama? News Inc? Essendon FC?
Haha if the Bummers rewrote the 10 Commandments they could be simplified to Whatever It Takes :p
 

D Mitchell

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So Smith gets two weeks for conduct unbecoming and De Goey nothing for alleged assault at a US nightclub in January and then again for (allegedly) misbehaving at another overseas nightclub mid season in June. 🤔
Are you advocating that Smith should not be/have been suspended or that De Goey should be/have been ?
 

Mr. Walker

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So Smith gets two weeks for conduct unbecoming and De Goey nothing for alleged assault at a US nightclub in January and then again for (allegedly) misbehaving at another overseas nightclub mid season in June. 🤔
It’s the AFL. Right, wrong doesn’t matter. Everything is assessed solely in terms of “will sponsors withdraw dollars if we take no action?”
 

Libbaaaa

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We aren’t the best team but Sunday Footy Show just frothing over Toby Greene when we won comfortably.
 

DognBones

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Can't recommend this article by The Age journalist Greg Baum enough. The thrust of the article is that elite young sports people have become slaves to the requirements of their respective sports where the pressure is unrelenting. Bailey Smith, Adam Cooney and Tom Boyd are all referenced among others, as to how football has changed so much over the decades in not allowing players opportunities to release pressure valves to attain a life balance.

‘Everyone knew our names, but not our faces’: when footy had an escape valve
 

Substance

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They also just praised Weightmans courage to continue to play after the elbow dislocation. Toby had the game of his career and I'm wondering when we are going to play the giants and properly tag that maggot
 
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doggies ftw

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Thet also just praised Weightmans courage to continue to play after the elbow dislocation. Toby had the game of his career and I'm wondering when we are going to play the giants and properly tag that maggot
Yep 7 goals & 20 touches is a hell of a performance from a small forward - well within their rights to talk about it.

We really don’t have a match up for him, I would have liked to have seen Ed have a go - Dale was obviously not the option thought that would have been clear!
 

Libbaaaa

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Thet also just praised Weightmans courage to continue to play after the elbow dislocation. Toby had the game of his career and I'm wondering when we are going to play the giants and properly tag that maggot
He had 2 goals in junk time basically when the result was secured + Duryea was his direct opponent and injured. Let Toby get his and keep the others in check.
 

dogwatch

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Yep 7 goals & 20 touches is a hell of a performance from a small forward - well within their rights to talk about it.

We really don’t have a match up for him, I would have liked to have seen Ed have a go - Dale was obviously not the option thought that would have been clear!
Plays a bit like Brad Johnson … without the personality. BJ kicked 8 once and had quite a few bags of 4 or 5.

Very hard to contain. A shame he’s such a grub. A bit selfish at times too but if you are so good at finishing I guess that can be excused.
 

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