What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 4

[Dogs_r_barking]

Drugs in sport is not a good look for the AFL at any time particularly when it's that blatant. It's not like this kind of punishment hasn't happened before, Mumford received a similar punishment.

The punishment was for bringing the game into disrepute.

The AFL likes to make out it is ahead of social issues, but it ignore the mental health epidemic effecting players, especially young players. The constant scrutiny of social media, fans, trolls, journalists always looking for a story, especially one with dirt. Not to mention the pressure of the game itself and the constant rule changes.

Mental health and drug use have a strong correlation, whether someone is self medicating, as in the case of Baz, or induced mental health through drug use, psychosis. Either way, I see it as a health issue, not a criminal issue.

 

[TBOW]

The punishment was for bringing the game into disrepute.

The AFL likes to make out it is ahead of social issues, but it ignore the mental health epidemic effecting players, especially young players. The constant scrutiny of social media, fans, trolls, journalists always looking for a story, especially one with dirt. Not to mention the pressure of the game itself and the constant rule changes.

Mental health and drug use have a strong correlation, whether someone is self medicating, as in the case of Baz, or induced mental health through drug use, psychosis. Either way, I see it as a health issue, not a criminal issue.

The AFL is like most big organisations - they do not give a s**t about anything but their bottom line.
So they act like they have a social conscious because not having one is bad for the brand, but the reality is they don't really give a s**t what players do until it reflects badly on them. Then they need to be seen to do something in response.

 

[W W Biscuit]

I don't agree that they're performance enhancing. Of course there are exceptions but for 99% of players they would result in worse performance. Even caffeine pills are too over stimulating.

I'd estimate that the amount of AFL players doing recreational drugs is above 30%. Just because it's incredibly stigmatized behaviour doesn't mean that it's wrong. Just because it's illegal doesn't mean that it's wrong either. I'm hoping it'll take just 10 more years to wake up to science done in the 90s.

An authentic public conversation to have is every player coming out and acknowledging that they've done it vs. punishing the 1 in 100 who gets caught. Head in the sand 'we don't see when our eyes are closed' is the worst form of decision making and adjudication.

Dermot Brereton tells the story of how he once experimented with ingesting spoonfuls of coffee granules before a match. In the first half, he played out of his skin, but came crashing down at half time and stumbled around the field like a drunken sailor for the rest of the game. He didn't try it again.

 

[weltschmerz]

Dermot Brereton tells the story of how he once experimented with ingesting spoonfuls of coffee granules before a match. In the first half, he played out of his skin, but came crashing down at half time and stumbled around the field like a drunken sailor for the rest of the game. He didn't try it again.

I’ve been working on losing weight for a while now. Late last year I thought “these last 5 or 6kg seem like they’ll be the hardest to shed, let’s try a “fat burner” from the supplement shop”. 300mg of caffeine per serve and suggestions to stack it with another product that was also super high in caffeine. Surprise, panic attacks.

 

[ScragCity]

I’ve been working on losing weight for a while now. Late last year I thought “these last 5 or 6kg seem like they’ll be the hardest to shed, let’s try a “fat burner” from the supplement shop”. 300mg of caffeine per serve and suggestions to stack it with another product that was also super high in caffeine. Surprise, panic attacks.

In my experience, the quickest and easiest way to lost that last 5-6 kg is to just cut off one of your arms. Not the whole thing, forearm should do it. Severe it right on the elbow.

 

[weltschmerz]

In my experience, the quickest and easiest way to lost that last 5-6 kg is to just cut off one of your arms. Not the whole thing, forearm should do it. Severe it right on the elbow.

That’s how I lost the first 40kg after all, just severed both legs.

 

[Fossie 32]

I don't agree that they're performance enhancing. Of course there are exceptions but for 99% of players they would result in worse performance. Even caffeine pills are too over stimulating.

I'd estimate that the amount of AFL players doing recreational drugs is above 30%. Just because it's incredibly stigmatized behaviour doesn't mean that it's wrong. Just because it's illegal doesn't mean that it's wrong either. I'm hoping it'll take just 10 more years to wake up to science done in the 90s.

An authentic public conversation to have is every player coming out and acknowledging that they've done it vs. punishing the 1 in 100 who gets caught. Head in the sand 'we don't see when our eyes are closed' is the worst form of decision making and adjudication.

I would have thought being illegal does mean it is wrong.
What is the science you are referring to?
Are you saying it's ok to take coke and other drugs and which ones if so?
How can people think drug taking is okay when it *s up so many lives?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Drugs in sport is not a good look for the AFL at any time particularly when it's that blatant. It's not like this kind of punishment hasn't happened before, Mumford received a similar punishment.

And Crouch and Carlisle.

 

[Royale]

I would have thought being illegal does mean it is wrong.
What is the science you are referring to?
Are you saying it's ok to take coke and other drugs and which ones if so?
How can people think drug taking is okay when it *s up so many lives?

People also drink and smoke which are legal. Both can be addictive. Both have negative impacts on health.

Gambling is legalised too for that matter.

 

[Fossie 32]

People also drink and smoke which are legal. Both can be addictive. Both have negative impacts on health.

Gambling is legalised too for that matter.

So??

 

[maddog37]

Take it to pm.

 

[Royale]

So??

Just pointing our whether something is legal or illegal doesn't always equate to it being wrong. Personally i think most recreational drugs should be legal. Regulate it like alcohol. Just dont use it whilst operating machinery or at work.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

I would have thought being illegal does mean it is wrong.
What is the science you are referring to?
Are you saying it's ok to take coke and other drugs and which ones if so?
How can people think drug taking is okay when it *s up so many lives?

There are many things the legal system doesn't get right. Best to take it with a grain of salt and make a judgement with the latest evidence. There is an incredible organisation called Maps who has done science from 1986 on the therapeutic benefits of drugs and also quantified their harm and addiction characteristics (MAPS.org - Support Psychedelic Science - Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - MAPS) - No surprises but alcohol and smoking are more additive and harmful than the majority of recreational drugs. Cocaine is in that same category of harm as alcohol but because it's illegal treated like it's 1000x worse. Just need a legal framework that treats drugs by their true harm characteristics and address the core issues here.

Personally I believe it's a misconception that the drugs ruin lives. The people I know that have had drugs ruin their lives have had significant prior mental health and addition problems and drugs made their existing issues much worse. There were on a slippery slope and whether drugs were illegal or legal didn't make a difference because they needed to escape or cope somehow. One interesting study I saw was that you can predict with fMRI from age 12 who will have severe addiction issues later in life. Some of this is brain structure and genetics that is hard or impossible to change.

 

[X_box_X]

In my experience, the quickest and easiest way to lost that last 5-6 kg is to just cut off one of your arms. Not the whole thing, forearm should do it. Severe it right on the elbow.

NSFW

 

[ScragCity]

I would have thought being illegal does mean it is wrong.

It was illegal for same sex couples to marry in Australia until very recently. The law doesn't always reflect what most of us think is morally right or wrong. There's usually a big lag in changes between public opinion and the relative legislation. The law isn't supposed to tell us what is right or wrong, we are supposed to write laws that reflect our morality. If you're looking to the law to tell you what to think then it's a case of the tail wagging the dog.

 

[ScragCity]

It was illegal for same sex couples to marry in Australia until very recently. The law doesn't always reflect what most of us think is morally right or wrong. There's usually a big lag in changes between public opinion and the relative legislation. The law isn't supposed to tell us what is right or wrong, we are supposed to write laws that reflect our morality. If you're looking to the law to tell you what to think then it's a case of the tail wagging the dog.

Great post

 

[ScragCity]

Oh crap wrong account

 

[Fossie 32]

It was illegal for same sex couples to marry in Australia until very recently. The law doesn't always reflect what most of us think is morally right or wrong. There's usually a big lag in changes between public opinion and the relative legislation. The law isn't supposed to tell us what is right or wrong, we are supposed to write laws that reflect our morality. If you're looking to the law to tell you what to think then it's a case of the tail wagging the dog.

I realise all of that but it is still legally 'wrong' to break the law so in a way it is 'wrong'.
So in this sense it is reasonable to say it is wrong to take illegal drugs, whether or not you can mount a moral, medical or any other case to say it is not wrong. And without the law telling you what to think.

There are many things the legal system doesn't get right. Best to take it with a grain of salt and make a judgement with the latest evidence. There is an incredible organisation called Maps who has done science from 1986 on the therapeutic benefits of drugs and also quantified their harm and addiction characteristics (MAPS.org - Support Psychedelic Science - Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - MAPS) - No surprises but alcohol and smoking are more additive and harmful than the majority of recreational drugs. Cocaine is in that same category of harm as alcohol but because it's illegal treated like it's 1000x worse. Just need a legal framework that treats drugs by their true harm characteristics and address the core issues here.

Personally I believe it's a misconception that the drugs ruin lives. The people I know that have had drugs ruin their lives have had significant prior mental health and addition problems and drugs made their existing issues much worse. There were on a slippery slope and whether drugs were illegal or legal didn't make a difference because they needed to escape or cope somehow. One interesting study I saw was that you can predict with fMRI from age 12 who will have severe addiction issues later in life. Some of this is brain structure and genetics that is hard or impossible to change.

That's interesting but I guess you could have added ' ....... don't ruin lives by themselves'. ?? - as you acknowledge in the next sentence that you know of people where they have ruined their lives. Fair point about tobacco but its like two wrongs don't make a right. Alcohol can obviously mess people up but its a tradition of centuries ..........

 

[Fossie 32]

Take it to pm.

Mate, all the s**t posted on here and back and forth arguments and I need to take a discussion on a relevant and serious problem to pm???

 

[ScragCity]

Alcohol can obviously mess people up but its a tradition of centuries ..........

How long do you think people have been consuming opiates, magic mushrooms and cannabis? (4,000 - 10,000+ years)

 

[maddog37]

Mate, all the s**t posted on here and back and forth arguments and I need to take a discussion on a relevant and serious problem to pm???

Your call.

 

[Fossie 32]

Your call.

It was only a 5 minute argument. Your eyes are safe now!

 

[Next Waiting]

I realise all of that but it is still legally 'wrong' to break the law so in a way it is 'wrong'.
So in this sense it is reasonable to say it is wrong to take illegal drugs, whether or not you can mount a moral, medical or any other case to say it is not wrong. And without the law telling you what to think.

Perhaps the word wrong is wrong in this case.

The Taliban banned employment and education for women and girls between 1996 and 2001. That seems wrong to us yet the girls/women would be wrong to undertake either according to Taliban law.

So it's more to do with legality under the prevailing system (which could be very wrong). And when the law changes, what was formerly wrong/illegal is suddenly all right/legal...overnight. Right or wrong seems like a trap. Legal or illegal which may change over time according to what we collectively believe to be right or wrong.

But the lag no doubt exists as Scrag said. What we believe or accept to be right (or at least OK/tolerable) is almost always ahead of the law, as the law eventually reflects, ever so slowly, social norms.

 

[Next Waiting]

I guess that a point may come when consumption or possession of an amount that is less than trafficable may no longer be seen as a misdemeanour given wide social acceptance. The law changes at that point and what is now illicit won't be. How you obtain it, in what quantities and under what circumstances...TBA.

 

[D Mitchell]

I guess that a point may come when consumption or possession of an amount that is less than trafficable may no longer be seen as a misdemeanour given wide social acceptance. The law changes at that point and what is now illicit won't be. How you obtain it, in what quantities and under what circumstances...TBA.

When is a substance unfashionable and when is the same substance too dangerous to be left in the hands of private enterprise ? Alcohol's been a socially admired substance, it's importance ingrained into traditional as well as contemporary culture, despite minority addition, Stand for The Royal Toast, Gentlemen. Over centuries, respectable society has tamed alcohol, heroin and opium not able to be tamed. Alcohol and drugs aren't the same.