List Mgmt. What to do with 8 more games to decide on list cuts

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Sep 12, 2013
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So Simmo is using the term rebuild. The club has admitted it will not make finals. We have 8 weeks to do something. What? Hopefully not just back in the credits in the bank and finish as high as possible

First call - the decision with the S&C team on Sheed looks a problem so probably best to wrap him up for the year. Like Oscar, a lost year but we know what we have got.

Now to look at our list and discover who is a keeper verses a leaver.
  • We have 45 players on our list - three above the maximum and we have 4 on the LTI list.
  • We have picks 2, 20, 25, 38 and 74 plus all our future picks.
  • We picked up a bunch of depth players in the SSP and will need to make some tough calls on these players.
  • We have 19 players in the 22 to 25 year old bracket that are solid at best but not the basis of a rebuild with the exception of Oscar.
Turned 22 - B Williams, Jamieson, H Edwards, XON, Joyce
- none look best 22 with Harry potentially the next KPD in best 22 once he learns to play in his taller body

Turned 23 - Allen, Dixon, Petruccelle, Foley, Naish and West
- Oscar is the gem and the automatic next CHF. He should never ruck again and one of the few youth that give hope.
- the rest look at best solid WAFL and depth

Turned 24 - Strnadica, Jones, Waterman, Petrevski-Seton, Rotham and Witherden
- none say definitively best 22 but are probably in the 20 to 30 ranking level.

Turned 25 - Cole and Clark
- Cole is best 22 as someone who can take on the fast small forwards and a keeper while Clark is solid depth and I suspect has more to be seen.

I am anticipating 2 retirements (JK and Hurn) plus another 7 to 8 delistings. The majority of which will come from this 22 to 25 year olds.
Of the 19, 10 are contracted beyong 2022 being Allen, Waterman, SPS, Petch, XON, Cole, Foley, Rotham, Clark and H Edwards.
That leaves 9 out of contract and vulnerable - Witherden, Jones, B Williams, West, Naish, Jamieson, Dixon, Joyce and Strnadica

The younger ones out of contract include Trew, Winder and L Edwards who all turn 20 in 2022. Note that we have nobody on our list born in 2021. As such, I would be inclined to offer all three of them a 1 year extension. I would like to see Winder replace Petruccelle on the forward flank. Trew - he is a prove it in the WAFL first. An Luke and his injury are likely to be a story later on but not a high cost to retain.

So what do need to see to make our decision as to which of the 9 get cut. Do some of the players that played in the early rounds deserve a run with the better team around them? Who might need a change of position?

Easy decisions for those out of contract:-
1. Joyce - never an issue of talent. His body is not up to the rigors of AFL - CUT
2. Strnadica - not a KPF but is a ruckman. Not looking the goods, worth the pick up but probably time to CUT.
3. Dixon - similar story to Strnadica and similar outcome - CUT
4. West - has a heart, can play a role but solid depth. I would rather be getting games into Clark and Culley. CUT
5. Jones - reinvested as a rebounding HBF and looking alright. Not the best decision maker or ball user but will take the game on with pace. KEEP
6. Witherden - has proven he can play at the top level and useful depth, especially if retain the control defensive chip game - KEEP
7. B Williams - has not developed like I thought he would and it will be a matter of losing one of he or Jamieson - CUT (refer below)
8. Jamieson - was always a longer term and it will be a matter of losing one of he or B Williams - KEEP (refer above)
9. Naish - was one of the few positives in the early rounds but has flaws. I would love to see him given a chance on a wing with Yeo behind him on the HBF and Cripps in front on the HFF - if left in WAFL then CUT but ask him to stay a Beagle with an eye to a possible elevation in 2023

So my list changes would see 5 to 6 being cut.

Of those that are still in contract, they worry me as most do not say "I am the future".
Things I would like to see starting the last 8 games:-
1. Waterman - not good enough as a forward and time to see if he can make it as a defender. Has not become the link up player (Tom Lynch Crows) that I hoped for and I would rather get games into Culley in the next 1.5 seasons plus Oscar is the next tall and he will replace JK.
2. SPS - no idea where to play him. Can he play the high half forward, a rotating mid or a good ball user HBF? He has looked injured since he arrived and I now understand why Carlton were perplexed as to where and how to use him. Time to decide and give him the permanent role to perfect and find out for real.
3. Petruccelle - I may be wrong on this but I have had enough. Runs different speed to our goal v oppo goal, panics under pressure and has little game sense. If we got an enquiry for a trade, I would take it. Pity on him as I had higher hopes for him when drafted.
4. Rotham - completely over him and would be asking his agent that he is likely WAFL only and to find a home for him other that the Hip-E Club.
5. Clark - I would like to see him given a consistent run as a midfielder in the seniors. He looks like better depth than XON, West and Naish.
6. Foley is an interesting one. I thought we were going to get a winger but we got him as a HBF. I would be OK getting him back on a wing at WAFL and seeing if he can play the role.
7. XON - the credits in the bank MC stuffed up after the Pies game and I will be intersted to see how he returns. Looked alright v South Freo and if that continues,
SPS, Petch, XON, Foley Rotham and Clark
8. H Edwards - I am being patient here as he looks like his growth spurts have hurt his coordination. Doing OK as the tall defensive option but will battle with Bazzo to get game time as the 3rd tall. I remain hopeful. Guv's ribs may offer up more opportunities for the rest of 2022.

Who are my players I would offer up as trade target or push their manager to instigate a move?
1. Gaff - enough written about him. I would be prepared to pay some of his salary in 2023 and take a late second for him
2. Rotham - under contract until 2024 but I am over him and cannot see him flourishing under Simmo. I do hope a club can reinvent him.
3. Nelson - he is a FA so will get nothing. Offers solid depth and not fussed if he stays of goes.
4. Waterman - if he does not like the option of going to defence and wants to play as only a forward.
5. Petruccelle - not likely offered much but he is looking more and more a list clogger. I hope I am wrong.
 
3 need to get cut to bring our list down to the maximum allowed
4 to accommodate ND picks 2, 20, 25 & 38
At least 1 for the rookie draft.

Minimum 8 spots.
  • JK
  • Hurn
  • Sheppard (still on list, isn't he?)
  • Strnadica
  • Joyce
  • Winder
  • Nelson
  • Dixon
Trew has 2 months to show he deserves another year.
West is contracted, will stay one more year as a mature body. I like his effort, but you would hope more talented players go past him.
HEdwards is fine, only 21. Will grow into his body and be the 200cm defender that can go with the 200cm FF of the future.
Naish did enough to warrant another 12 months, but I can see him being let go too.
BWilliams is improving. Unless we trade in a ready to go ruck, I think he survives.
Rotham is stagnated, but we'd have to cut 15 deep for him to be delisted.
XON on thin ice.
Cripps has credits, but really, should be asked to hang the boots up. Mr Fumbles has 1 good game every 5 and somehow that's enough.
Waterman showing a lot, but may just be staring down the barrel of a career depth player. Wouldn't surprise me to see him ask for a trade.
 
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Williams is our #2 ruck, he's not getting cut. Will develop into a solid backup option in time. Zero issues with him.

Strange comments about Waterman. Fix our ball movement and he was one of our best v Essendon. Easy third tall post Kennedy unless something better comes along.

West is infinitely better than Naish. Both are mediocre by foot but one has a contested game and the other is a squib.

If I could cut four from the main list today they'd be Witherden , Nelson, SPS and Langdon.

I'd cull Witherden, he's a coach killer by foot and weak defensively.

Nelson is already gone. Jones, Cole, Foley, Rotham should all play ahead of him.

Ideal world I'd piss off SPS who's weakness over the ball is remarkable. Like Masten if he couldn't run forever and had a weak boot.

Langdon has got to go as well. He's how you describe West. I'd rather persist with Petch (health) and Winder (fitness) than clog the list with a guy who did not make the grade.


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Williams is our #2 ruck, he's not getting cut. Will develop into a solid backup option in time. Zero issues with him.

Strange comments about Waterman. Fix our ball movement and he was one of our best v Essendon. Easy third tall post Kennedy unless something better comes along.

West is infinitely better than Naish. Both are mediocre by foot but one has a contested game and the other is a squib.

If I could cut four from the main list today they'd be Witherden , Nelson, SPS and Langdon.

I'd cull Witherden, he's a coach killer by foot and weak defensively.

Nelson is already gone. Jones, Cole, Foley, Rotham should all play ahead of him.

Ideal world I'd piss off SPS who's weakness over the ball is remarkable. Like Masten if he couldn't run forever and had a weak boot.

Langdon has got to go as well. He's how you describe West. I'd rather persist with Petch (health) and Winder (fitness) than clog the list with a guy who did not make the grade.


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Point is with Langdon is that he is contracted for 2023. I think Naish needs to be given a go with some hardened bodies around him before you cut him. I hear you on the contested game but the sides we had when he played were awful. He fits better into the mode of taking the game on from wide and his decision making compared to Petch who just craps his pants and makes terrible decisions.
 
So Simmo is using the term rebuild. The club has admitted it will not make finals. We have 8 weeks to do something. What? Hopefully not just back in the credits in the bank and finish as high as possible

First call - the decision with the S&C team on Sheed looks a problem so probably best to wrap him up for the year. Like Oscar, a lost year but we know what we have got.

Now to look at our list and discover who is a keeper verses a leaver.
  • We have 45 players on our list - three above the maximum and we have 4 on the LTI list.
  • We have picks 2, 20, 25, 38 and 74 plus all our future picks.
  • We picked up a bunch of depth players in the SSP and will need to make some tough calls on these players.
  • We have 19 players in the 22 to 25 year old bracket that are solid at best but not the basis of a rebuild with the exception of Oscar.
Turned 22 - B Williams, Jamieson, H Edwards, XON, Joyce
- none look best 22 with Harry potentially the next KPD in best 22 once he learns to play in his taller body

Turned 23 - Allen, Dixon, Petruccelle, Foley, Naish and West
- Oscar is the gem and the automatic next CHF. He should never ruck again and one of the few youth that give hope.
- the rest look at best solid WAFL and depth

Turned 24 - Strnadica, Jones, Waterman, Petrevski-Seton, Rotham and Witherden
- none say definitively best 22 but are probably in the 20 to 30 ranking level.

Turned 25 - Cole and Clark
- Cole is best 22 as someone who can take on the fast small forwards and a keeper while Clark is solid depth and I suspect has more to be seen.

I am anticipating 2 retirements (JK and Hurn) plus another 7 to 8 delistings. The majority of which will come from this 22 to 25 year olds.
Of the 19, 10 are contracted beyong 2022 being Allen, Waterman, SPS, Petch, XON, Cole, Foley, Rotham, Clark and H Edwards.
That leaves 9 out of contract and vulnerable - Witherden, Jones, B Williams, West, Naish, Jamieson, Dixon, Joyce and Strnadica

The younger ones out of contract include Trew, Winder and L Edwards who all turn 20 in 2022. Note that we have nobody on our list born in 2021. As such, I would be inclined to offer all three of them a 1 year extension. I would like to see Winder replace Petruccelle on the forward flank. Trew - he is a prove it in the WAFL first. An Luke and his injury are likely to be a story later on but not a high cost to retain.

So what do need to see to make our decision as to which of the 9 get cut. Do some of the players that played in the early rounds deserve a run with the better team around them? Who might need a change of position?

Easy decisions for those out of contract:-
1. Joyce - never an issue of talent. His body is not up to the rigors of AFL - CUT
2. Strnadica - not a KPF but is a ruckman. Not looking the goods, worth the pick up but probably time to CUT.
3. Dixon - similar story to Strnadica and similar outcome - CUT
4. West - has a heart, can play a role but solid depth. I would rather be getting games into Clark and Culley. CUT
5. Jones - reinvested as a rebounding HBF and looking alright. Not the best decision maker or ball user but will take the game on with pace. KEEP
6. Witherden - has proven he can play at the top level and useful depth, especially if retain the control defensive chip game - KEEP
7. B Williams - has not developed like I thought he would and it will be a matter of losing one of he or Jamieson - CUT (refer below)
8. Jamieson - was always a longer term and it will be a matter of losing one of he or B Williams - KEEP (refer above)
9. Naish - was one of the few positives in the early rounds but has flaws. I would love to see him given a chance on a wing with Yeo behind him on the HBF and Cripps in front on the HFF - if left in WAFL then CUT but ask him to stay a Beagle with an eye to a possible elevation in 2023

So my list changes would see 5 to 6 being cut.

Of those that are still in contract, they worry me as most do not say "I am the future".
Things I would like to see starting the last 8 games:-
1. Waterman - not good enough as a forward and time to see if he can make it as a defender. Has not become the link up player (Tom Lynch Crows) that I hoped for and I would rather get games into Culley in the next 1.5 seasons plus Oscar is the next tall and he will replace JK.
2. SPS - no idea where to play him. Can he play the high half forward, a rotating mid or a good ball user HBF? He has looked injured since he arrived and I now understand why Carlton were perplexed as to where and how to use him. Time to decide and give him the permanent role to perfect and find out for real.
3. Petruccelle - I may be wrong on this but I have had enough. Runs different speed to our goal v oppo goal, panics under pressure and has little game sense. If we got an enquiry for a trade, I would take it. Pity on him as I had higher hopes for him when drafted.
4. Rotham - completely over him and would be asking his agent that he is likely WAFL only and to find a home for him other that the Hip-E Club.
5. Clark - I would like to see him given a consistent run as a midfielder in the seniors. He looks like better depth than XON, West and Naish.
6. Foley is an interesting one. I thought we were going to get a winger but we got him as a HBF. I would be OK getting him back on a wing at WAFL and seeing if he can play the role.
7. XON - the credits in the bank MC stuffed up after the Pies game and I will be intersted to see how he returns. Looked alright v South Freo and if that continues,
SPS, Petch, XON, Foley Rotham and Clark
8. H Edwards - I am being patient here as he looks like his growth spurts have hurt his coordination. Doing OK as the tall defensive option but will battle with Bazzo to get game time as the 3rd tall. I remain hopeful. Guv's ribs may offer up more opportunities for the rest of 2022.

Who are my players I would offer up as trade target or push their manager to instigate a move?
1. Gaff - enough written about him. I would be prepared to pay some of his salary in 2023 and take a late second for him
2. Rotham - under contract until 2024 but I am over him and cannot see him flourishing under Simmo. I do hope a club can reinvent him.
3. Nelson - he is a FA so will get nothing. Offers solid depth and not fussed if he stays of goes.
4. Waes of grey though. - if he does not like the option of going to defence and wants to play as only a forward.
5. Petruccelle - not likely offered much but he is looking more and more a list clogger. I hope I am wrong.
In broad I agree with your assessment, many shades of grey involved though. Great to see who developed - skill, pace, decision making and ability to both attack and defend should be the criteria. Structure is an obvious issue as well.

The key forwards are interesting, does Darling play higher and we try Allen deap of vice versa. Can Nic spend time forward to prolong his career and add to our weaponry. I agree Waterman as a third tall is more a a seagull (lucy at times to be left unmanned), he doesnt seem to think instinctively or add enough defensively. He is said to have a tank - if he has and can use it he may be our bets gap filler short term. All this is built on Allen proving himself as a Key forward. JD is not tall enough unfortunately so we need to build this area.
 
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I’m keen to keep Dixon on the list. He’s not the greatest athlete, but 23yo 196cm, can play KPF and chop out in the ruck, but most importantly has a football brain. I’d to see him after a couple of solid AFL pre-seasons
Dixon had 3 AFL pre-seasons with the Dockers and a 4th with us. At 23, what you see today is what Dixon is, there's no upside there.
 
Pretty harsh on West. Had some very good moments this season when he's not frozen out on the half forward flank.

He drifted out in the last qtr on the weekend however was otherwise pretty impressive.

Seen a few comments in various threads he's not good enough for the rebuild but I love his grunt work and the sort of player I'd want in/around the 22.
 
West isn’t getting delisted. He’s never going to be an A grade Mid but I think he can be a really good role player & at worst he’s good depth. He digs in, tackles well & actually plays like he cares.

He’s improved every game he’s played.
I also don’t think his kicking is that bad. Sure he’s never going to be an elite kick but his disposal has been getting better.
 
JK and Hurn retire + Shep’s spot.

All 4 top ups delisted.

Trew or Winder - maybe both.

At least 1 of Langdon, Nelson, O’Neill - I had Jones with them too but they seem to be keen to try him down back, we’ll see how that goes.

That’s 13 names - I reckon 10 at least there.

The issue will be filling the squad without scraping the barrel…
 

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Retire:
Hurn
Kennedy
Sheppard

Trade:
Gaff

Delist:
Joyce
Trew
Jamieson
Strnadica
Nelson
Naish
Witherden
West

That's 12. AFAIK we actually have 46 players on our list. Would give us 8 open list spots.
Lots of players contracted for 1 more year.

That gives us 6 main list spots. I'd be offering Jones a 1 year contract onto the senior list.
That leaves a minimum of 3 and a maximum of 5 main list spots to use. I'd just be using our first 4 picks unless something really attractive is sitting there when it comes to our 5th round pick.

So 4 main draft picks
Upgrade Jones

2 Rookie picks

Leave an SSP open.
 
Retire:
Hurn
Kennedy
Sheppard

Trade:
Gaff

Delist:
Joyce
Trew
Jamieson
Strnadica
Nelson
Naish
Witherden
West

That's 12. AFAIK we actually have 46 players on our list. Would give us 8 open list spots.
Lots of players contracted for 1 more year.

That gives us 6 main list spots. I'd be offering Jones a 1 year contract onto the senior list.
That leaves a minimum of 3 and a maximum of 5 main list spots to use. I'd just be using our first 4 picks unless something really attractive is sitting there when it comes to our 5th round pick.

So 4 main draft picks
Upgrade Jones

2 Rookie picks

Leave an SSP open.
Including Sheppard, then yes we have 46 on our list with the maximum number of active players being 42. We currently only have 41 active as we have 4 on the LTI list and WTFK what we are categorising Sheppard.

I noticed you said nothing about Dixon.

I'd be a little concerned about delisting Strnadica and Jamieson leaving us with just NicNat and Bailey plus a possible ruck draftee. I would keep Jamieson as he has improved this year (one of the few).

I am also interested in what we might try to asses with Trew the rest of 2022. His constantly injured is a concern but there have been signs in his games being the first ball get player. We don't have many of those.

We we try to offer Nelson or Witherden the Beagles captaincy since they are interstate talent and we are capped with WA players on our WAFL list?
 
Including Sheppard, then yes we have 46 on our list with the maximum number of active players being 42. We currently only have 41 active as we have 4 on the LTI list and WTFK what we are categorising Sheppard.

I noticed you said nothing about Dixon.

I'd be a little concerned about delisting Strnadica and Jamieson leaving us with just NicNat and Bailey plus a possible ruck draftee. I would keep Jamieson as he has improved this year (one of the few).

I am also interested in what we might try to asses with Trew the rest of 2022. His constantly injured is a concern but there have been signs in his games being the first ball get player. We don't have many of those.

We we try to offer Nelson or Witherden the Beagles captaincy since they are interstate talent and we are capped with WA players on our WAFL list?

I would be keeping Dixon as a second ruck/forward particularly with Kennedy retiring. I think he's easily the better forward and always will be over Williams and he's better at ground level. So I have him as playing FF and being the second ruck with either Nicnat or Williams as the primary ruck as well as 1-2 draftees on the list. The reason not to mention it here is because i've already mentioned it on more than one of my posts in the contracts/draft/trade thread.

Once we have a primary ruck who is showing real development on the list combined with say Jack Williams becoming AFL ready then Dixon is either a throwaway or depth. If he shows nothing next year he is an easy delisting and we go back to the well.

Trew to me shows some great signs but it becomes difficult in regards to getting enough list spots in regards to what we need. He also shows some really, really bad signs too that show very poor judgement, ie calling for the handball when running past with no idea whats around him and being instantly tackled. Then there is the injuries and s**t performances when things aren't really going his way. Trew would be given a starting position in the centre square every week at WAFL level till the end of the year. He would need to show something exceptional to get a 1 year rookie extension.

West was the most unlucky delisting of mine. So if we had 1 more list spot available than im guessing I would keep west over Trew even though I know West is almost uncertain to ever be on a premiership team I think he provides more value as a mature body who drives standards and attack on the man than Trew showing huge signs of improvement and becoming a best 22 player. If Trew was delisted he would be one of the players I would give a full program to and invite as part of the SSP selection. See if he can go away, swallow the pride again and come back and be the guy deserving of the last open list spot going into next year.

I'd offer Witherden the captaincy in regards to this as he is the most likely to be able to provide the kicking nous at WAFL level that will be a large part of our setup at AFL level.
 
If I’m picking a b22 today with an eye to the future in season 2025, I’m looking at something like;

FB: Bazzo Barrass Duggan
HB: Jones Edwards Cole
C: Chesser Yeo Hough
HF: Petrucelle Allen Waterman
FF: Ryan JWilliams Rioli
R: Jamieson Kelly Sheed

I: Foley Culley LEdwards Dixon Clark (sub)

E: Rotham West O’Neill BWilliams

Any player under 30 not on the team listed Id consider delist candidates, so taking into account current contract status’s

Witherden
Joyce
Strnadica
Naish
Trew
Winder
Nelson

are first cabs off the rank, with the likely retirements of

Hurn
Kennedy

Theres 9 cuts from the list before we add any trades
 
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Between retirements, the kids who haven't made it and the SSP picks, we've probably got enough players to delist. But wowee you'd be counting yourself very lucky to be Langdon, Nelson, Rotham or SPS and still be on a list
 
If I’m picking a b22 today with an eye to the future in season 2025, I’m looking at something like;

FB: Bazzo Barrass Duggan
HB: Jones Edwards Cole
C: Chesser Yeo Hough
HF: Petrucelle Allen Waterman
FF: Ryan JWilliams Rioli
R: Jamieson Kelly Sheed

I: Foley Culley Clark Dixon

E: Rotham West O’Neill BWilliams

Any player under 30 not on the team listed Id consider delist candidates, so taking into account current contract status’s

Witherden
Joyce
Strnadica
Naish
Trew
Winder
Nelson

are first cabs off the rank, with the likely retirements of

Hurn
Kennedy

Theres 9 cuts from the list before we add any trades
Good way to look at it. One oversight - Darling is contracted through to 2025.

It show what positions we need to prioritise with our picks this year and next year. No more "best available" unless there is an absolute clear winner. And I do not mean an injured player that has missed 1 or 2 years that would of been a top 10 .... la la la

Of your delist, I would probably hold Winder for another year.

You'd like to think that by 2025, we might have worked out where to play SPS
 
Good way to look at it. One oversight - Darling is contracted through to 2025.

It show what positions we need to prioritise with our picks this year and next year. No more "best available" unless there is an absolute clear winner. And I do not mean an injured player that has missed 1 or 2 years that would of been a top 10 .... la la la

Of your delist, I would probably hold Winder for another year.

You'd like to think that by 2025, we might have worked out where to play SPS
Yeah, Darling and maybe McGovern could still be around for his last season or so in 2025. I thought I would just list the guys under 30 to get a bit of a picture. It actually doesn’t look too bad imo, glaring weaknesses right now are midfielders who will be developed enough to take over from Yeo and Kelly, plus a competitive ruck. Winder to me just doesn’t have the speed he was touted as possessing, or a tank at all. At 19, it’s a bit of a rough call but he’s on the edge if we need to cut deep enough.
 

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