List Mgmt. What to do with McCartin?

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StCicatriz

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What hate... I didn't say anything about him...
Why the Lonie hate still? He was pick 41 and he's outperformed everyone else we took in that draft except arguably Sinclair in the rookie draft. He's turned into a goal a game small forward capable of moving up the ground. He's really creative this year and sticks his tackles now. I've never been his biggest fan but gee give the kid a break he's made the most of what he's got.
 

plugger66

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I can remember some were on to De Goey including Brian Speaking, Brayshaw was popular but considered a bit bland. I think a few had Rhys Mc Kenzie as a second rounder and he was retired after a very short period. I still think consensus on the forum probably would have a higher success rate than Trout did. Mc Cartin only became a popular choice once the club let everyone know we'd take him at pick 1. Most wanted Petracca.
Of course it would higher. Like I said 100 people select about 300 players. As if one individual here would know more than any recruiters from any club. I reckon they don’t spend hundreds of thousands on people if any joe blow can do it here.
 

Drake Huggins

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As much as we like picking on old Trout, the medical team should cop some of the blame for this. Whilst a lot of the solid concussion evidence (which would've given some indication that diabetes in a contact sport isn't an ideal mix) has come out since Paddy's draft year, there should have been a stronger push against it from the general performance side of things. It's not as if Paddy was the standalone selection, such that the 'cons' associated with his diabetes were not sufficient enough to drag him back to the pack; this was always a close call and makes me wonder how involved the Medicos were (or if they were listened to).
Respect your professional opinion, Strahany. Your post also points out the Trout's incompetence. I know two endocrinologists who are footy mad and both agreed McVartin was a certain bust at number one. Both in terms of demonstrated ability with the cherry on the cake being his diabetes. Both stated type 1 and contact sports as brutal as AFL don't mix. One said you may pick someone like that as speculative pick later in the draft but you'd never gamble a number one on it. He consults to Hawthorn. Things that make you go hmmmmmm........
 

Verdun66

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I wanted Brayshaw that year. I could trawl back and find the posts. Was told he was too vanilla. Got told that again with his younger brother. I confess a family connection to the Brayshaws so I was biased. But I remember Rahul the draft guru on our board agreeing with me. Someone who contributes quite often to these debates said he wasn't even Top 10. Boy....wouldn't we love him now.

I can't say I am an expert (and as I said I was biased). And I saw him play no games. But know enough about the family to say he would have been great as a person to have at our club. And i read all the draft reports avidly. A bull, he made a ridiculous amount of tackles in one of the TAC games.

But the Boyd thing was fresh and I sort of understood why we went for Paddy. Thought Petracca a FIGJAM....or maybe a bit different as a personality. I said so at the time. Am sure he is a nice fella, so unfair of me to say that. And hindsighters can say De Goey, but if we had taken him and seen his early personality there would have been hell to pay. Good on Collingwood straightening him out.

Anyway, desperate for Paddy and his situation but I have written him off. As Drake says, Trout pulled the wrong switch there. And we had no football overseer to pull him in to line. Thus we have Gubby now and I hope he can guide us a bit better.

Brayshaw would have been good......
 

bergholt

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The strategy was wrong. It's not Paddy's fault or the doctors'. Probably not even Trout's. I ranted about this on SS at the time. We picked a KPF because we thought they were going to be expensive and one day when we had a decent list we were going to need one. This added huge risk because it shaped the whole list build and any mishap Paddy suffered would be magnified.

That was just poor risk management and dumb logic. What we should have done is focus on the most important part of the ground - the midfield - and continued to throw numbers at it. That way if any of them individually failed, we'd still have a good chance of getting enough A-graders and stars to be competitive.

My post from 25 Nov 2014:

http://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=87703&p=1518211

Mids, mids, and more mids. It was always the right strategy and it continues to be the case.

Most goals these days are kicked by smalls anyway. But if you really need a KPF, you can find one. Look at Tom McDonald, he's not a superstar but with a good midfield he kicked 53 goals last year; or Ben Brown who was a late pick; or Mihocek and Cox. And they get traded all the time, from last year's top 20 goals: Franklin, Gunston, Hogan, Jenkins, Kennedy - all traded at one time or another, not to mention Membrey, Bruce, Boyd, Schache, Waite, Dixon, McCarthy, Lobb, McGovern, Watts, Vardy etc.

If we'd picked Petracca instead of McCartin and, say, Touk Miller or Toby McLean or Daniel Howe instead of Goddard - we'd be well ahead of where we are.
 

gringo2011

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Of course it would higher. Like I said 100 people select about 300 players. As if one individual here would know more than any recruiters from any club. I reckon they don’t spend hundreds of thousands on people if any joe blow can do it here.

I think if you went the consensus from what the forum wanted it would have been Petracca just over Wright. De Goey, Brayshaw and Paddy were not as popular. Rhys Mc Kenzie became the cult hero on here though so luckily we didn't get him in the end. Paddy stormed Hom late with people justifying what the club had leaked about taking Paddy if available but some thought it was still a ruse like when we were going after Rhys Mathieson and then passed on him three times.

I think anyone would know more than Trout, he was by far the worst recruiter in history IMO. We all bagged John Peake who was only there for a minute, but he still managed to get Stanley, Mc Evoy, Tom Lynch, Cripps etc.
 

plugger66

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I think if you went the consensus from what the forum wanted it would have been Petracca just over Wright. De Goey, Brayshaw and Paddy were not as popular. Rhys Mc Kenzie became the cult hero on here though so luckily we didn't get him in the end. Paddy stormed Hom late with people justifying what the club had leaked about taking Paddy if available but some thought it was still a ruse like when we were going after Rhys Mathieson and then passed on him three times.

I think anyone would know more than Trout, he was by far the worst recruiter in history IMO. We all bagged John Peake who was only there for a minute, but he still managed to get Stanley, Mc Evoy, Tom Lynch, Cripps etc.
I have said many times our recruiting has been poor but I’m not arrogant enough to suggest I know more than elshaug about recruiting let alone anyone.
 

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mad-saint-guy

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Think most of us said mids berg, sadly
Mids can always kick goals, forwards rarely can play on the ball

Max will be ready before paddy imo and will be our number one forward
Should never have taken him at 1 with the diabetics stuff
We absolutely should not have taken Paddy. I hope we don't end up saying the same about King and his knee
 
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I have said many times our recruiting has been poor but I’m not arrogant enough to suggest I know more than elshaug about recruiting let alone anyone.

I reckon my dog knows more that Trout. He was like barnacle, he was there at the club's inception and he survived through multiple admins. He was like a cockroach in a nuclear blast.
 
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Are we still playing the hindsight game 5 years later. We need to look forwad.

Ive always supported paddy but to be honest and in my opinion, he is close to done. As a fan of statistics and probability because Im a nerd; There is no sign that the rate of concussions he suffers is going to slow down, it is beyond coincidence now and is strong enough pattern to suggest that it will continue to be this way. Coupled with the fact that recovery times are steadily increasing.

The club will do the best by him to get him on the park, much like Freeman, but unless the statiscally improbable happens and he plays all 22 games next year without any hiccups we need to find alternatives. King is the start. Battle may move forward again when we arnt so depleted down back, hes picking up some solid experience at the moment and Bruce has a good few years left.
 
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I'm a lover, not a fighter
Quite frankly, having read those draft threads over that period, if we'd done what the key contributors to those threads had suggested, we'd be better off than we are now. Yes, they'd have misses (Reece Mac being one). But overall they were pretty good.

I'm talking people like Barrels, Ruhul, etc. They were not chumps. They were watching TAC, analysing publicly available data, and had contacts in the industry.

My frustration with those threads did not come from those key contributors not knowing what they were talking about. Rather, it came from seeing that the actual decisions made by the club were frequently worse than suggestions by these amateur and semi-professional pundits.
 
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Are we still playing the hindsight game 5 years later. We need to look forwad.

Ive always supported paddy but to be honest and in my opinion, he is close to done. As a fan of statistics and probability because Im a nerd; There is no sign that the rate of concussions he suffers is going to slow down, it is beyond coincidence now and is strong enough pattern to suggest that it will continue to be this way. Coupled with the fact that recovery times are steadily increasing.

The club will do the best by him to get him on the park, much like Freeman, but unless the statiscally improbable happens and he plays all 22 games next year without any hiccups we need to find alternatives. King is the start. Battle may move forward again when we arnt so depleted down back, hes picking up some solid experience at the moment and Bruce has a good few years left.

No not in hindsight. I called it the day he was drafted and I’m sure I wasn’t alone.

We have had 5 years of “just you wait and see how good Patty will be” and as predicted we got a slower shorter Kosi.

Patty will be talked about in 10 years as one of the worst number 1 picks ever unfortunately.

Jack Watts has outperformed him monumentally

Trout getting the ass is the best thing Stinkfinger Lethlean has done since being at the club.

Petracca is twice the player Patty is. Even Tom Mccartin (pick 33) is better than Patty.
 
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No not in hindsight. I called it idiocy the day he was drafted and I’m sure I wasn’t alone.

We have had 5 years of “just you wait and see how good Patty will be” and as predicted we got a dud.

Patty will be talked about in 10 years as one of the worst number 1 picks ever.

Even Jack Watts has outperformed him monumentally

Trout getting the ass is the best thing Stinkfinger Lethlean has done since being at the club.

Petracca is twice the player Patty is.

Even his brother Tom (pick 33) is better than Patty.
I remember the moment when Brian Speaking (who at the time seemed quite the ITK) announced that Trout was taking McCartin, the responses were hardly positive: they basically came down to shock, anger, or "Oh well, we have to trust the club and our recruiters", often with the strong implication that any such trust seemed pretty unwarranted.

We pretty much all saw it. That's not retrospect, that's not showing off. It's just fact... a very, very sad, sad fact.
 
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