What unpopular AFL opinions do you have? - Part 2

jatz14

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 13, 2011
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Issue 1: I get what you’re saying but it could take a lot more than a couple of years to reach that drop off. For eg we could, over a couple of decades, reach a point where every schoolgirl in Australia played footy for at least one year, but if 95% of them play for only one year, then we would have growing participation numbers for many years without much growth in quality.

Issue 2: could not disagree more. Those with talent only develop it fully by competing at a high standard, which requires a density of good juniors, 99% of whom will never make it to the pros. The single biggest factor in the progression of a sport to an elite standard is the size of the available talent pool. A good example is women’s mixed martial arts. Far fewer women than men participate, which means there’s very little elite talent at the top end. Ronda Rousey was a pioneer for women’s mma and went on a great winning steak, leading some people to call her a ‘once in a 100 year athlete’. It turned out they were wrong, and her record occurred only because she was crushing cans. Once the level of completion increased, as more women around the globe participated in the sport, she was shown up to be very one dimensional and somewhat mediocre. The same will happen if you have a few good junior girls footy players dominating their weak opposition. AFL already has the problem of drawing 99% of its players from one country - for AFLW, I stick to my original point: unless it’s as widely and dedicatedly played by junior girls as junior boys, then the standards will struggle. The part which is more crystal-ball gazing is whether or not that will happen. I don’t believe it will, as I think a process of cultural change to occur where little girls become socialised just as strongly as little boys are to want to play footy, to enjoy tackling and being tackled, etc, is an enormous cultural shift that could not happen, to that scale, in less than several generations. I’m not sure why any of that makes you feel you should smugly chide me for ‘not paying attention’.
I dont actually think the number of girls playing will ever equal the number of boys playing, but it doesn't need to. Having said that, there are already places in NSW/Qld where the number of girls playing is more than boys. I also do not think we will ever get close to 95% of girls playing it for a year. I wasnt really counting things like school participation, which imop, doesn't really count. Actual junior numbers, number of girls having played footy in a region will never reach 50%, probably not get close. Certainly doesn't with boys, so I dont know why girls would be different.

As for point 2. Key is, as you put it, density of good juniors. Emphasis on good. Running around slaughtering no hopers doesn't really progress the footy of someone with talent. If you are after elite progression as your aim, and not participation, less is actually better. Huge numbers of junior teams, where participation is key, and everyone sticks around, can see most teams having only a few players, or none, that are any good. A system that reduces the number of players, but keeps all the top 20% or so produces a greater concentration of talent, and a better competition (again, not something I would advocate, but if elite performance was the only criteria)

Number of womens teams in WA has exploded, but last year, they reorganised the WAWFL, to try to emphasise performance development for the AFLW, and they cut the number of teams playing in it.

This has all gone a bit off topic. My main argument is, I dont think there is any evidence that there are significantly more girls dropping out of footy after a short time than there are boys. If anything, the numbers for women are top heavy, more seniors to juniors compared to men, though this is a function of history, not boys dropping out. But if girls did drop out, who it was dropping out will not effect the quality of junior competition, unless it improves it.
 

jatz14

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 13, 2011
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You've inadvertently reminded me of something - the AFL should be stripped of its not-for-profit status.

They currently act like a corporate entity, but without having any of the responsibilities (such as paying the corporate tax rate).
All sizeable not for profits act like corporate entities, they have to. Not for profits can go broke just as easily as for profits, more easily in fact, if they just act like charities, and not corporate bodies.
 

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FreeTK

All Australian
Oct 2, 2019
663
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If non Vic teams want a gf in their home state then build a ******* ground that can hold 100,000 people and maybe then the AFL will take notice


I agree with this, although I don't think 100,000 should be limit, probably more like 60-70K.

As it currently stands, competing clubs get allocated about 20K tickets for members.

Other stadiums wouldn't have to dish out 30K to MCC members to attend for the price of a packet of chips.
 

Billy ray

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 10, 2013
11,419
16,866
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If non Vic teams want a gf in their home state then build a ******* ground that can hold 100,000 people and maybe then the AFL will take notice
For shits and giggles i wish a state govt did so we could then see these calls changed to nah its traditional it cant be moved even if it was a 150k seater
 

General Giant

Hall of Famer
Apr 12, 2012
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I agree with this, although I don't think 100,000 should be limit, probably more like 60-70K.

As it currently stands, competing clubs get allocated about 20K tickets for members.

Other stadiums wouldn't have to dish out 30K to MCC members to attend for the price of a packet of chips.
So im guessing ypu dont whinge about the fairness of the comp? Northern Academies are bad etc?
 

FreeTK

All Australian
Oct 2, 2019
663
1,271
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West Coast
So im guessing ypu dont whinge about the fairness of the comp? Northern Academies are bad etc?
The AFL was right to lock it in to MCG until every state has a stadium at least 60K, but until 2057 is a stain on the concept of a fair national competition. Agreement should have been 10 years max. The AFL Grand Final being at the MCG is a corporate rort and every AFL fan should be angry at the current arrangement with MCC taking 30% of available tickets.

I don't think Northern academies are bad. AFL needs to find innovative ways to create AFL at a grass roots level and fight for increasing market share in non-AFL states.
 

big_e

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 28, 2008
5,291
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Depends on what we're measuring. From my quick search, it looks like currently girls make up about 27% of all junior participants, which might sound like a lot, but I think that figure is counted per head, so girls who try it for one year are counted the same as girls (or boys) who play for 6 years. I'd be keen to know what percentage girls make up of the sum of all juniors who play footy for, say, 6 years continuously. I'm guessing it's a much, much lower percentage. The talent pool will remain small until there is a large group of girls playing continuously in a fairly dedicated fashion from the ages of around 10-17, and I don't think that will happen in 10 years, or 50 years.

Go to the above link and click on the footy. You'll see the average number of times a girl plays footy each year is 48.
 

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MadMundy

Club Legend
Mar 29, 2019
1,427
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Fremantle and West Coast fans secretly love each other but don't wanna be the first ones to admit it. Y'all know you love each other, no need to be ashamed ;)
 

Vassp

Club Legend
Jun 30, 2018
1,154
2,229
AFL Club
Richmond
My unpopular opinion is this,
One AFL team in Canberra.
One AFL team in tassie.
One AFL team in Darwin.

Re locate three vic clubs that don’t meet AFL future criteria and base them there. (Flame suit on).

Melbourne has too many teams.
 

Minka Beaver

Club Legend
Feb 5, 2004
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The AFL was right to lock it in to MCG until every state has a stadium at least 60K, but until 2057 is a stain on the concept of a fair national competition. Agreement should have been 10 years max. The AFL Grand Final being at the MCG is a corporate rort and every AFL fan should be angry at the current arrangement with MCC taking 30% of available tickets.

I don't think Northern academies are bad. AFL needs to find innovative ways to create AFL at a grass roots level and fight for increasing market share in non-AFL states.
That is incorrect.
 

FreeTK

All Australian
Oct 2, 2019
663
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AFL Club
West Coast
That is incorrect.

Sorry, you are right. It’s not 30 000, it’s 26 000. But still my point stands. Members of competing clubs only get 20K each out of a possible 100K which is simply not good enough. For big clubs like Richmond, Collingwood and west coast, that is one ticket for every 4-5 paying members.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

Minka Beaver

Club Legend
Feb 5, 2004
1,061
1,655
AFL Club
Melbourne
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Everton
Sorry, you are right. It’s not 30 000, it’s 26 000. But still my point stands. Members of competing clubs only get 20K each out of a possible 100K which is simply not good enough. For big clubs like Richmond, Collingwood and west coast, that is one ticket for every 4-5 paying members.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
It's between 22 and 23,000. So 23%.

I have no problem shifting the Grand Final if a stadium gets built with a 75,000 or 80,000-seat capacity elsewhere. Hell, upgrade Stadium Australia's sight-lines and there's an alternative venue straight away. The MCG should not have a god-given right to host the Grand Final.

But no MCC (or AFL Members - why are they always left out of the picture?) means you can't subsidise the constant maintenance needed to keep a 100,000-seat premium venue. That's ok if you have a stadium that holds 70-80k and is completely 'clean', but you're living in a fantasy world if you think Australia's most corporatised sport wouldn't still cream off a huge percentage of seats for corporates.
 

4THAWN

Club Legend
Mar 25, 2019
1,455
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Hawthorn
But still my point stands. Members of competing clubs only get 20K each out of a possible 100K which is simply not good enough. For big clubs like Richmond, Collingwood and west coast, that is one ticket for every 4-5 paying members.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
What about Richmond or Collingwood members that are MCC members? Do they not count? The MCG would be nowhere near as good as it is today without the existence of the MCC members, and a large part of the draw to be an MCC member is the grand final ticket allocations.

I'll frame a question like this -

does a collingwood member who joined up 1 year ago deserve a grand final ticket more than an MCC member who joined up and has been paying the fees for 25 years, regardless of the team they support.
 

class78

All Australian
Jun 19, 2013
847
1,474
AFL Club
Adelaide
What about Richmond or Collingwood members that are MCC members? Do they not count? The MCG would be nowhere near as good as it is today without the existence of the MCC members, and a large part of the draw to be an MCC member is the grand final ticket allocations.

I'll frame a question like this -

does a collingwood member who joined up 1 year ago deserve a grand final ticket more than an MCC member who joined up and has been paying the fees for 25 years, regardless of the team they support.

classic kew dwelling xavier college alumni bachelor of commerce finance job hawthron supporter
 

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