What we can learn from Essendon

Slattery_20

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#51
The Dons don't really have a great list but somehow it clicks (I think our best players are better than theirs). But they all compete and are a team that spreads very well and moves the ball exceptionally.
What we do have, and where Richmodn are a little bit behind, is decent-to-good players all over the park. From forward pocket to back flank.
Richmond's talent is (excepting Rance & Reiwoldt) concentrated in the middle.

The forward pockets aren't great, there's not a standout leading/midsize forward, the backline is light & a bit patchy, there's not a great defensive midfielder, there's no #2 ruck option, etc etc.

If you went down and made a 22 up of how Ess & Rich they're performing, most would end up with Richmond dominating the midfield, and majority of fwd and backlines would be Essendon.

Where we've really improved has been guys like Hardingham / Hibberd/Davey/ Bellchambers/ Jetta/Monfries/Howlett. Not superstars - but they're better & more consistent than their Richmond counterparts. All solid consistent players now.
All those little advantages our way, add up to far more than a lot of people are giving us credit for.

The 1st half and the late run (when your midfield was knackered) showed up what I'm saying IMHO - Richmond need to get to a point where they can win or at least compete without Cotchin / Deledio / Foley dominating in the middle.

EDIT: That said, Morris/Batch and maybe Ellis look like they might become those good little backmen. And obviously there are high hopes for talls like Griff/Elton who might well play some time in the ruck.
Should start to look at small forwards and defensive minded smalls IMHO.
 

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Slattery_20

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#52
So far Essendon have played.

1. Kangaroos (at Etihad)
2. Port Adelaide (at Etihad)
3. Gold Coast (Metricon)
4. Carlton (MCG)
5. Collingwood (MCG)
6. Brisband Lions (at Etihad)
7. Richmond (MCG)

So in the first 7 rounds you've played one TRUE away game against the shit kickers of the competition. Congratulations.
Richmond leave the state once in the first 12 weeks, to the side that finished 2nd bottom last year!! </TwoCanPlayThatGame> ;)
Who you play is far more important than where.


We have had a reasonably easy draw... and it continues to round 15 or so. No question.
Time alone will tell whether we maintain form when we hit Hawks / Cats / Pies / Carlton - but looking at our draw I'd be very surprised if we win less than 14 games this year.
 

TigerTank

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Thread starter #53
What we do have, and where Richmond are a little bit behind, is decent-to-good players all over the park. From forward pocket to back flank.

(skip a bit)

Where we've really improved has been guys like Hardingham /Hibberd/Davey/ Bellchambers/Jetta/Monfries/Howlett. Not superstars - but they're better & more consistent than their Richmond counterparts. All solid consistent players now.
All those little advantages our way, add up to far more than a lot of people are giving us credit for.

The 1st half and the late run (when your midfield was knackered) showed up what I'm saying IMHO - Richmond need to get to a point where they can win or at least compete without Cotchin / Deledio / Foley dominating in the middle.
Yes. Agree.
I think the players we have in those areas are capable of being so much more than they are at the moment. Trying to trade-in to fix every issue is pointless. Essendon hasn't had to do that.
Make those blokes fitter so they get to the contest more often and for longer, and are better able to perform when they are physically rooted.
 

Slattery_20

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#54
I wouldn't say you need to trade in, per se, just recruit smart.

All of Bellchambers/Hibberd/Hardingham/Howlett were late/rookie picks. I've made the comment a few times that it's an area Richmond could improve.

The positive is, a lot of the main problem areas are looking good - midfield will be great, ruck is OK for now and the list of talls is promising, if not quite there yet.

Adding role players can be done, and relatively 'cheaply' at that.
 

JR#8

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#55
What we can learn from Essendon?

Bulk up our players...I seriously think Jack needed to put on some weight during the pre season but I recall reading that the club got him to loose some weight.
 

RichoLedio

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#56
If Dimma can get us to play like we have when we've been behind, when we hit the lead we will finish some teams off comfortably
 

smasha

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#58
I wouldn't say you need to trade in, per se, just recruit smart.

All of Bellchambers/Hibberd/Hardingham/Howlett were late/rookie picks. I've made the comment a few times that it's an area Richmond could improve.

The positive is, a lot of the main problem areas are looking good - midfield will be great, ruck is OK for now and the list of talls is promising, if not quite there yet.

Adding role players can be done, and relatively 'cheaply' at that.
We need a player like Bannister.
Good pick up by the Bombers.
 

Slattery_20

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#59
Any danger of talking about football, smash?

His only really conspicuously bad call that I recall was his complete & utter guess regarding Reiwoldt's "mark".
There were a lot of throws/drops/incorrect that were missed both ways.
I didn't think the umpires had any say in the game at all.
 

Infamy

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#61
any justification for us going through a form slump like Carlton? Or just the vibe?
Essendon have a recent history of starting strongly and then falling away as they can't keep up with that pace for the entire season.

In 2011 after Round 8 were 3rd on the ladder with 5 wins & 1 draw, lost the next 5 in a row and finished 8th with 11 wins & 1 draw
In 2010 you sucked from start to finish as they weren't playing for Knights
In 2009 after Round 9 were 4th on the ladder with 5 wins and then finished 8th with 10 wins and a draw

So it's hardly without merit considering its happened in two of the last 3 years
You find yourself in a pretty similar position this year considering how much of an easy run you've had with the draw so far.
 

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Slattery_20

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#62
Essendon have a recent history of starting strongly and then falling away as they can't keep up with that pace for the entire season.
Bit of a stretch saying we started 'strongly' in 09. Our ladder positions from round 1 went 14th-9th-7th-9th-6th-10th. We & Port were pogo-ing in and out of the 8 most of the season.

Last year Watson Stanton Hocking Hurley Pears Lonergan all were down or out through the middle patch of the year - missing 4 of your best 10 is going to have a big impact on any club's year.
 

Happy Daze

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#63
Think its fair to say if the Tigers don't win this weekend they can kiss the finals good bye, which is a pity because players of the calibre of Cotchin and Lids really do deserve it. Also its difficult to make a decent run at a premiership without playing a finals series first - so 2014 is the first year you lot can reasonably expect a run at it, and probably more like 2015.

Having said that - the Tigers are now in a far better position than they were some years back - they really could still be in Melbourne Demons territory and the club deserves a lot of credit from lifting itself out of mediocrity. As you can see what's happened at Melbourne its very difficult to lift a club out of a bad culture and Richmond have now done that pretty conclusively.
 
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#64
Essendon have a recent history of starting strongly and then falling away as they can't keep up with that pace for the entire season.

In 2011 after Round 8 were 3rd on the ladder with 5 wins & 1 draw, lost the next 5 in a row and finished 8th with 11 wins & 1 draw
In 2010 you sucked from start to finish as they weren't playing for Knights
In 2009 after Round 9 were 4th on the ladder with 5 wins and then finished 8th with 10 wins and a draw

So it's hardly without merit considering its happened in two of the last 3 years
You find yourself in a pretty similar position this year considering how much of an easy run you've had with the draw so far.
by that logic you guys will never make the finals ever again
 

rammbo

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#66
[QUOTE=TigerTank;24267389]Essendon is proof you can polish a poo.
Ordinary list but first-rate fitness, and a bunch of players that stick to their task and play within their limitations.

The Bombers play at their best for much longer in a game than we do generally. They still don't kick particularly well, but their run means they don't have to.
Compared with Essendon, we have far fewer players who gut-run. We have fewer who keep running to create space to give some of our less than sterling kickers an easy out.
Gut-running, I think, is something that can be developed. Obviously it isn't an easy fix or Essendon would not spend as much money on its fitness, conditioning and coaching as it does.
But Essendon does show you what you can do.
Our only bloke who is particularly good at this is Grigg. We really need two or three blokes to step up in this area and develop a decent tank. In fact, a couple of our kids should really be nominated as projects to do this.[/QUOTE]

The problem with sides like essendon that lack the real top end talent is they always hav to play at there peak to get the result and will struggle to maintain it for much longer i would think.
 

Gumblestar

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#67
The problem with sides like essendon that lack the real top end talent is they always hav to play at there peak to get the result and will struggle to maintain it for much longer i would think.
Fair to say we have not played at our peak in Rounds 1,2,3,5 and 8 yet we won 4 of those matches.

Saying 'always have to play at their peak' is incorrect, in fact, it is horrendously wrong.

Perhaps you did not see the 'are the Dons the wprst 3-0 side ever' thread on the mainboard.

:eek:
 

Call Me Cake

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#69
So far Essendon have played.

1. Kangaroos (at Etihad)
2. Port Adelaide (at Etihad)
3. Gold Coast (Metricon)
4. Carlton (MCG)
5. Collingwood (MCG)
6. Brisband Lions (at Etihad)
7. West Coast (Etihad)
8. Richmond (MCG)

So in the first 7 rounds you've played one TRUE away game against the shit kickers of the competition. Congratulations.

(Etihad Stadium does NOT count as an away game.)
You forgot West Coast, so I just fixed that for you.

Carry on.
 

Call Me Cake

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#70
Essendon have a recent history of starting strongly and then falling away as they can't keep up with that pace for the entire season.

In 2011 after Round 8 were 3rd on the ladder with 5 wins & 1 draw, lost the next 5 in a row and finished 8th with 11 wins & 1 draw
In 2010 you sucked from start to finish as they weren't playing for Knights
In 2009 after Round 9 were 4th on the ladder with 5 wins and then finished 8th with 10 wins and a draw
Essendon 2009

Rnd 1 - 14th
Rnd 2 - 9th
Rnd 3 - 7th
Rnd 4 - 9th
Rnd 5 - 6th
Rnd 6 - 10th
Rnd 7 - 5th
Rnd 8 - 8th
Rnd 9 - 4th
Rnd 10 - 9th
Rnd 11 - 11th
Rnd 12 - 8th
Rnd 13 - 7th
Rnd 14 - 8th
Rnd 15 - 8th
Rnd 16 - 8th
Rnd 17 - 8th
Rnd 18 - 9th
Rnd 19 - 9th
Rnd 20 - 8th
Rnd 21 - 8th
Rnd 22 - 8th

How is that year even comparable to this season? We were only in the top 4 for one whole round, and that was because we had a big jump from 8th. After that however, we returned to where we were for the whole year and dropped down to 9th.

Not to mention 2009 was almost a completely different team to the one that's out on the park today.

You then dismiss 2010 because "we weren't playing for Knights" which is just a cop-out from your "trend". 2011 I'll give you,

Essendon 2011

Rnd 1 - 1st
Rnd 2 - 6th
Rnd 3 - 6th
Rnd 4 - 6th
Rnd 5 - 6th
Rnd 6 - 5th
Rnd 7 - 4th
Rnd 8 - 3th
Rnd 9 - 4th

Rnd 10 - 5th
Rnd 11 - 7th
Rnd 12 - 8th
Rnd 13 - 8th
Rnd 14 - 10th
Rnd 15 - 8th
Rnd 16 - 8th
Rnd 17 - 7th
Rnd 18 - 9th
Rnd 19 - 9th
Rnd 20 - 8th
Rnd 21 - 7th
Rnd 22 - 8th

But even then we were only in the top 4 for about 3 rounds for the whole year. I wouldn't even compare that start to this year's. We were also decimated with injuries after the Dreamtime match. Nevertheless, is it not plausible that our team could improve? As Lance has pointed out, using your analogy is kind of void.

Having said that, most Bomber supporters never expected us to finish top four by the end of 2012, and most of us still don't. But you're underselling our team's improvement in the consistency area a bit, tbh.

considering how much of an easy run you've had with the draw so far.
Yeah, I dunno. The fixture does get tougher in the second half, but you have to beat who you play against. Using your logic, do you consider Richmond to be better than us like other Tigers supporters do in this thread? If so, then I'd say Collingwood, West Coast, Carlton and Richmond are a fair bite. North were pumped at the start of the year due to top 8 predictions (hey, you brought up players not playing for a coach as a reason) and we always seem to lose to Port. Yes, we've had GC and Bisbane, but look at your own wins.

Believe it or not, I'd love to take on the Hawks, Cats, Swans and Crows right now if we could. Whether we will be ready for them later in the year is just here-say though. At the end of the day, it's all about consistency and getting the wins on the board (which is what you're talking about), so that you can place yourself well for the finals. And I'm glad Essendon is improving in that aspect.
 
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#71
[QUOTE=TigerTank;24267389]Essendon is proof you can polish a poo.
Ordinary list but first-rate fitness, and a bunch of players that stick to their task and play within their limitations.

The Bombers play at their best for much longer in a game than we do generally. They still don't kick particularly well, but their run means they don't have to.
Compared with Essendon, we have far fewer players who gut-run. We have fewer who keep running to create space to give some of our less than sterling kickers an easy out.
Gut-running, I think, is something that can be developed. Obviously it isn't an easy fix or Essendon would not spend as much money on its fitness, conditioning and coaching as it does.
But Essendon does show you what you can do.
Our only bloke who is particularly good at this is Grigg. We really need two or three blokes to step up in this area and develop a decent tank. In fact, a couple of our kids should really be nominated as projects to do this.
The problem with sides like essendon that lack the real top end talent is they always hav to play at there peak to get the result and will struggle to maintain it for much longer i would think.[/QUOTE]


Yeah actually, essendon are one of the best kicking sides in the comp...
 

Slattery_20

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#72
We haven't had *that* easy a draw. By any measure WCE, Carl & Coll are good sides.
Our draw hasn't been any easier than Sydney, WCE or Carlton (each played 3 of the sides who look like challenging for finals).

Hawthorn & Richmond have had the toughest draws.
 

fleabitten

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#73
We haven't had *that* easy a draw. By any measure WCE, Carl & Coll are good sides.
Our draw hasn't been any easier than Sydney, WCE or Carlton (each played 3 of the sides who look like challenging for finals).

Hawthorn & Richmond have had the toughest draws.
Yeah the Bombers haven't had an easy draw and theirs is one of the tougher draws this year overall I reckon.

So far they've played 3 games that you'd expect them to win at least 8 or 9 times out of 10. Port and Brisbane at Etihad and Gold Coast away. They went 3-0 as you'd expect.

They've had another 3 games that could have gone either way: Richmond, North and the Eagles in Melbourne. 3-0 is a good return on those games.

Then two teams that would have been rated higher than them, Collingwood and Carlton. They managed to split those games.

I hate Essendon but their results this year have been impressive. I had them fighting with us for the last couple of places in the eight, but now I think they are almost a lock for finals and will be fighting for top four.

Would love to be wrong.
 

Slattery_20

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#74
I had them fighting with us for the last couple of places in the eight, but now I think they are almost a lock for finals and will be fighting for top four.
Exactly the same here.
Never confident about Port/North & Richmond, and all those games were very much up for grabs as late as the last quarter, but winning those 50/50 games will prove crucial down the track.
Our draw this year is neither easy nor hard.

We've got it reasonably easy from now til about round 15, then a tough run home - which will sort out whether we're the real deal or not.
 
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