What would an ideal Tasmanian league look like? | BigFooty

What would an ideal Tasmanian league look like?

Discussion in 'TSL Board' started by The Speaker, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. The Speaker

    The Speaker Sage

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    Imagine, if you can, that the people in charge of Tasmanian football were competent and cared about clubs and the people in them. These people wanted to set up a state league that had popular support, was financially sustainable, and played a level of football that could compete with similar leagues being set up across the country. All the best Tasmanian players would stay at home and play for local clubs.

    In this fantasy world, what would a Tasmanian state league look like? How many teams would there be, where would they play, and what would their supporter base look like?
     

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  2. madmug

    madmug Brownlow Medallist

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    Well firstly the AFL couldnt care less about the clubs here except they help develop draft picks.

    The TSL wouldnt survive except for money the AFL put into it. The clubs themselves would be better off playing regional football. At least In this state league the AFL limited the travel.

    Most people I talk to say it should have been an 8 team competition. 2 from the NWC, 2 from the NE & 4 from the South.

    They would play on their current grounds.

    The supporter base would improve if the best players stayed here, I suppose.
     
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  3. Tigerssaints

    Tigerssaints All Australian

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  4. Tigerssaints

    Tigerssaints All Australian

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    Clarence winning everything from the under 7"s to the SNRS, and we better throw in the women's team as well
    No salary cap for them, and definitely all their games at Bootpark.
     
  5. GreyBudgie

    GreyBudgie Club Legend

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    Eight team State League with a final four finals.
    teams from
    Devonport
    Burnie
    Two Launceston Team maybe North/South divide?
    one Team from
    Northern Suburbs of Hobart
    One Central Team Hobart
    One Southern Team
    One Eastern Shore Team

    Scott Wade to retire would be the icing on the Cake
     
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  6. Howard Littlejohn

    Howard Littlejohn Brownlow Medallist

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    I'm not sure that two teams from Launceston is sustainable. For that reason, and that there seem to be two (financial) power-houses in Hobart, I would probably have gone with a six team competition.
    3 Hobart (Clarence, Glenorchy, probably North Hobart by default but maybe Hobart), North Launceston, Burnie, Devonport. Clearly that would need to be a full statewide roster. There might not be enough variety there, and if I could be convinced that a second Launceston team could work it would be Launceston.
    That would allow for a higher salary cap; set according to the amount the weakest of the clubs can afford. Again cutting to six may mean (purely as an example, and is not based on club finances) a $150k cap, eight might mean under $100k. Hopefully that would entice more of the best players to play in the state league and have more talent more highly concentrated.

    Sadly, a single northern league the next level down seems impossible. It was tried briefly in the 90s, when local footy had much more support than it does now, and not many clubs could handle it. As a result the north will always be secondary in terms of strength.

    I would also look into adding a soccer style, Statewide Cup. TSL, SFL, NTFA, NWFL (or whatever they call themselves next week) clubs, and rep sides from other leagues. The gap between SFL and TSL is probably not that great, and a few country league representative teams could be more than competitive. Country league clubs would probably get soundly beaten. The early rounds would probably need to be regional based, it is a long trip from Smithton to play Lindisfarne.
    Its also a good way for recruiters to find some players from the bush that have never tried their hand at TSL (or the next tier) but could do it. Its probably a step too far financially for AFL Tas and the clubs, but worth looking into in my view.
     
  7. Hawkboy

    Hawkboy Team Captain

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    I don't agree with you about Launceston only having one team. That would be a disaster for the competition as a single Launceston team would win everything on offer in all grades year after year in my opinion, they would simply have too many resources in terms of players and money. Just imagine picking a combined side from North Launceston, Launceston and Western Storm, there isn't a side in the state that would get within 15 goals of them. I cant imagine other clubs wanting to be part of a state league with only one team from the North. The total population of the North West Coast is similar to that of Launceston yet you are proposing 2 teams from the coast and only one from Launceston ???. Further to that a 6 team comp may raise the standard a bit but it could end up like the old TFL where the final 4 was know before the end of April some seasons which does nothing for public interest. I think 8 teams is the ideal number, one team to go from the Launceston area and one to go from the South.
     
  8. Howard Littlejohn

    Howard Littlejohn Brownlow Medallist

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    I get your point, and Launceston is for me the hardest one to get right. Two Launceston teams would likely mean a big drop in the cap that clubs can afford, and in standard, but Launceston as a one team town does have the potential to be dominant.
    I guess my view is tarnished by how poor on and off field South were in Statewide Mark 1 that (and that East were destroyed in the process). That all venues other than York Park are a joke is another point.
    North Launceston in that period pretty much were in a one team town position. The local media, sponsors, everybody, shunned South entirely. Only the Robins/Bombers ever made it into the Examiner, on local radio, etc. And they were always up there but not dominant.

    The coast seems to have more football money (despite the problems there) and produces more players. Trying to fit in a second Launceston team might reduce the standard too far, or AFL Tas may need to provide greater support to smaller clubs (as they did with South before booting them) in order to have a real gap between TSL and the levels below. I have no problem with that personally, provided the clubs don't get dictated to by AFL Tas.

    Six teams is not ideal from a fixturing point of view, but is probably best from a quality of game point of view.

    I guess it depends. Maybe the financial situation of the Blues is better than I imagine (I know they are faring much better than when I left the state) and having two teams wouldn't drop things as much as I think from this vantage point, these days far removed from Tas. In that case, eight teams provide a better balance.
     
  9. madmug

    madmug Brownlow Medallist

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    I have to make a point about the way AFLtas have handled the South Launceston/ Western Storm mess. Why they tried to destroy South was a disgrace. Why didnt they help them work through the problem? Instead they shifted resources to Prospect.They made a new club with no ground, no social club, no supporters & SFA income except from AFLTas! Why?

    We went up to Launceston & to Legana earlier this year. we stopped & had a look at Launcestons ground. Its had a remake since the bad old days. Its a very good facility now. Nice social club, brand new function centre, I'm told the drainage problem has been fixed.

    I dont know much about their finances but at least they have a good home ground set up.

    It would be easy to dump Western Storm & have North Launy & Launceston.

    In Hobart its a bit more complex. Kingston now have a fantastic facility & its a growing area. Kingborough/Huon has about 50k. I think they should have put them in the TSL at the start, not try to destroy Hobart & North Hobart clubs for no good reason.

    The problem is Clarence & Lauderdale. an area drawing on some 80k. How do we edge one out? Lauderdales ground is a dump, so thats no loss. But they've done a good job of developing their club. So Glenorchy serves some 50k & NHCFC 50k as well.

    AFLTas have set up this mess. I'm not sure if they'll bother fixing it.
     
  10. keen spectator

    keen spectator Debutant

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    At the moment every TSL club is absolutely dependent on the money that they receive from AFL TAS for their very survival. AFL Tas have got them all exactly where they want them. It is a real shame.
     
  11. irish

    irish Premiership Player

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  12. Concussion

    Concussion Helmet

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    3x 8 -10 team leagues with relegation, salary cap of $150k for top tier league.

    "Get rid of that ****-up, Wade"
     
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  13. Hawkboy

    Hawkboy Team Captain

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    Tasmanian league ??????? John Bennett tried to do that in the 80's and it was a total disaster and the first Statewide league was born out of a total flogging of the so called Tasmanian team (TFL) by the NWFU at West Park. In a state as small as Tasmania no region can make a success of going it alone
     
  14. madmug

    madmug Brownlow Medallist

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    The TFL was the most successful league in intrastate games. The 1st SWL was started with 6 TFL & 2 NTFA clubs in 1986, then added 2 NWFU clubs then 1 more NTFA then back it went to 3 South, 1 north & 2 NW clubs, what a mess!!!

    This one has 5 south, 2 NW & 3 northern clubs, just silly I recon. Should have been Burnie, Devonport, North launy, Launy, Glenorchy, North Hobart, Clarence & Kingston. Each team having a distinct region. 8 teams from the start of SWL 2. salary cap $150k
     
  15. Hawkboy

    Hawkboy Team Captain

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    I agree with your comments on the make up of the league and the salary cap increase. I think the standard and interest in the current TSL is improving but the players are expected to put more commitment in to their football with very small financial rewards. Getting the likes of Callinan and Lonergan back in to the TSL next year is good for the competition and will raise the bar a bit for the other clubs to compete with in terms of modern coaching methods.
     
  16. madmug

    madmug Brownlow Medallist

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    The funny thing is I dont see AFLTas helping the standard or the interest. I mean how many supporters do Western Storm have? How does 10 teams help the standard?
     
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  17. JD Tomahawk

    JD Tomahawk Cancelled

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    Why would AFL tas create a team called western storm, who would even try relate to that. So much change in top tier footy in the state has made it a bit of a laughing stock.
    I like the promotion/relegation idea mentioned above. Add some spice, get clubs with supports and a strong and proud history a chance to play in the top tier. They are just as deserving as any other team.
     
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  18. Gibbke

    Gibbke Premiership Player

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    And there's your answer. South left the SW league twice for the same reason. Resources were not just "shifted to Prospect" - South were offered a half share of a licence and refused it. They didn't meet financial criteria agreed to in 2008 when all clubs were given five year licences. They knew this, everyone else knew this and complained (including you) when they were given AFL Tas handouts, and at the end of the day the decision from the top was made not to renew their licence, and that was done in consultation with the club. The first time around, 1997, I can vouch for the exact words "we had to get out of there" from a club official. Seriously, I don't get why you're always on about South - Hobart and North Hobart have far greater claims to grievance...

    The Storm were favoured for exactly the same reason as Kingborough and Lauderdale - in this day and age (not the geographical and demographical situation of the 1950's, but 2000), these were the areas where population and junior development figures said "put a side in". In their own words, they haven't done it very well, and they're doing something about it...

    You can go two ways with a state league. The current thinking is all about developing juniors and pathways and all that shit. To be honest, if you want that path, you'd do it not much differently to the way it is now. The other is more similar to the old TFL, more club and grudge match based, with spending on AFL players as drawcards and winning premierships. Both have their merits and drawbacks. I think we'd all prefer the latter - at the end of the day, we just want our team to kick the arse of the other mob, but when set against the reality of every other state and their respective set ups, and the attractions they offer to our best players v the lack of attractions for imports, it's a difficult situation, especially when clubs wobble and go under due to their own unaccountability...

    The comp itself is basically as it should be if it's going to stay with its current focus. The west Launceston entity, who knows...numbers indicate a growth area, but they won't be running out in 2016, which is a setback almost without precedent anywhere...they might like their 9 team comp in 2018 and might not let them back in, especially if North Launceston get their way. Give the league a few more years hopefully with stability, and the players won't give a f### if they're playing for the grand old flag of North Hobart or the brand spanking new chrome finish of the Tigers. They'll play for whoever gives them the opportunity. The spectators weren't showing up even before anyone was grizzling about Scott Wade, so this is the blank slate - the current model protects the clubs a little from this, at least better than the old TFL did...
     
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  19. madmug

    madmug Brownlow Medallist

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    South Launceston, like Hobart FC, decided not to be destroyed by AFL Tas. They decided their future was as a community club in South Launceston, not in being in some shame partnership with a made up entity & being forced to play at Aurora Stadium. In the end the money pumped into Storm was a waste. Why? Because of the arrogant & incompetent manner or those running the game. It could have been used to get South back on track.

    Changing from Storm to Hawks & with plans to play on a soccer ground with very poor facilities was just too much for the players. They voted with their feet. As did South Launceston. Its called survival. You say the clubs are better 'protected'. I doubt that. Maybe some clubs are better protected than others. That much seems obvious.

    I have no idea why you chose to write the above, but The league does badly need stability. Is had none of that due totally to the Leagues management ( I use the term advisedly), and its strategies. What ever they actually are. Changes have been made time & time again. many were just stupid & destructive.

    As far as spectators go, playing 'entities' like Storm/prospect were a financial black hole. They are made up. They have no supporters. Clubs not as well supported by AFLTas were going broke playing them. Is that a strategy? I have no idea. I know its either stupid or a disgrace.

    State league could work. But its on a rocky road right now. I know who to point the finger at. The public does too.
     
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