What Would U Like See Against the Dees On Monday 8th March

Pugz89

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 29, 2015
11,153
12,829
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Concerning how easy Melb got it out of the back, they literally have one move, kick long out of defence. So obvious and simple, we just can’t afford to push as high any more, especially from kick ins. How many weeks will it take us to understand this? We move the ball so so well from defence to attack, we do not need to press so high
Easton already said on the coverage they underestimated how far the ball travelled under the roof. They train at VUWO and at half time there had already been an adjustment made with Crozier as the sweeper/goalkeeper. I'd almost be more concerned the Dees did it so much that it was predictable. We often went short, meaning our long kick has a surprise factor. Anyway, I think that was addressed and I'm not really too worried by it going forward.
 
Sep 22, 2008
25,499
34,592
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
The goals we pepper on in the 3rd aren’t exactly text book but we just put the ball in dangerous situations time and time again, not gonna be as easy against better sides but that’s what our midfield will be able to provide this season. You keep putting the ball in hot positions and now we actually have some decent forwards things are gonna happen eventually.

Also it’s very obvious how much more dangerous Timmy looks as an extra tall alongside two genuine forwards. I think anyone who thinks he could genuinely hold down CHF or FF on his own doesn’t really understand what he brings
 
Sep 22, 2008
25,499
34,592
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Hunter gets in such good positions. If he could kick even half decently he could have given off 5 direct shots at goal through hitting easy targets he had on, and kicked 2. He just can’t though so frustrating.

I think West is my favourite player
 

Dazb86

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 31, 2008
15,901
13,400
melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Up until half way through the 2nd qtr on the rewatch, only have 3 goals on the board but I’ve been super happy with how our forward half has worked. We’ve burnt a couple of miskicks going inside 50 and missing leading targets, missed about 3 sitters and hit the post 3 times. Should have 10 probably, let’s hopefully put that down to preseason rust 🤪 our pressure inside 50 on the ball carrier is much improved and there’s some sort of order to the way we’ve looked to enter inside 50 for the most part. Actually been very happy with the Naughty, Bruce and Timmy/Martin trio on a second watch here. Up on a hard task in May/Lever and all 3 being burnt at least once or twice each. Again it’s not gonna happen over night, it’s literally the first game we’ve played all 3 + Ruckman, let’s give it a chance...

I thought the same on the re-watch. Bare minimum should have had another 3 goals on the board and we were dominating general play. It's the goals conceded on the fast break going the other way that's the concern. The gane shouldn't have been as close as it was at half time.
 

footscray1973

Premiership Player
May 17, 2004
4,998
9,431
Pepperland
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Footscray
Craig Ellis was known as Horse back in the day. Dougie alleged a few times it was because he could carry his towel into the showers without using his hands. Make of that what you will.
 
Sep 27, 2011
3,656
5,308
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
New York Yankees
Agreed - we couldn't play Buku and Gardner in the same side (at present) if all they do is spoil, oppositions will react and place small forwards in positions both forward and back of the contest and make us pay dearly. Buku has much better distribution (on limited viewing to be fair), so hopefully he can adjust his game slightly. Good signs for a first hit out for him.

Just on this - they interviewed Wood during one of the breaks and he said they had forgotten about the different ball carry in Marvel - they train in windy conditions and were surprised (after 12 months away) how fall the ball travelled. It might explain our slightly poor ball distribution and defence (letting the ball get over the back) in the first half...
Baku is a very good mark and not affraid to back himself definitely not just a spoiler. He's very good both side of his body and not gun shy.... A lot to like.
 

perro_loco

Club Legend
Apr 10, 2016
2,489
3,559
Western Suburbs
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Boca Juniors
Naughton lacks forward craft and forward instinct. You may teach him some craft but instinct is difficult to change.
His leading patterns are wrong, too early, too late and rarely right. As a result, when the ball is kicked forward he is usually in the wrong position and flying in from a poor position. The problem is not Bruce getting in his way. Bruce's movement is spot on - he is just dropping balls he shouldn't.

When Naughton takes a mark high up the ground/wing and Bruce is one out with a opponent, what is required is a quick kick to Bruc's advantage. This situation occurred on 3 occasions yesterday and Aaron missed the moment each time - displaying no instinct for the situation and instead chipped the ball around. Naughton is courageous but careless, charging into packs without respect for potential injuries - has no idea how to protect himself and as a result is likely to be regularly injured and his kicking for goal remains shaky.

In short, Naughton can be a dangerous forward because he has elite marking ability but his instincts are that of a defender. In defence he runs the right patterns, instantly covers the most dangerous space and is elite one on one in the air and the ground. In defense he is poised. We moved him forward out of desperation - because we really lacked any forward options at the time, we had just trialed Eastern Wood as a forward. We didn't move Aaron forward because it was a natural position for him.
I like this about Naughton. No one else has said this so well. I hope that you are wrong about Naughton being a forward, but my instinct tells me that you are right in your analysis. I think he is great in the backline. Because we have not had a really good forward, we are dreaming about having one and on this occasion it is Naughton potentially being played in the wrong position. I hope we are both totally wrong and that Naughton turns out to be the forward we really need.
 

flipper83

Club Legend
Jul 18, 2012
1,901
3,332
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Naughtons goal kicking worries me. Not sure how effective he can be as the main man missing shots like he does.

Bruce, Schache and English and by the sound of it Jakarta are excellent shots at goal. On that metric alone the argument to play Naughton back for a season or two is strong.
Naughton lacks forward craft and forward instinct. You may teach him some craft but instinct is difficult to change.
His leading patterns are wrong, too early, too late and rarely right. As a result, when the ball is kicked forward he is usually in the wrong position and flying in from a poor position. The problem is not Bruce getting in his way. Bruce's movement is spot on - he is just dropping balls he shouldn't.

When Naughton takes a mark high up the ground/wing and Bruce is one out with a opponent, what is required is a quick kick to Bruc's advantage. This situation occurred on 3 occasions yesterday and Aaron missed the moment each time - displaying no instinct for the situation and instead chipped the ball around. Naughton is courageous but careless, charging into packs without respect for potential injuries - has no idea how to protect himself and as a result is likely to be regularly injured and his kicking for goal remains shaky.

In short, Naughton can be a dangerous forward because he has elite marking ability but his instincts are that of a defender. In defence he runs the right patterns, instantly covers the most dangerous space and is elite one on one in the air and the ground. In defense he is poised. We moved him forward out of desperation - because we really lacked any forward options at the time, we had just trialed Eastern Wood as a forward. We didn't move Aaron forward because it was a natural position for him.
I disagree about his forward instincts. He's kicked a couple of goals with quick kicks off the ground from a contest at sharp angles and has a few assists with clever knock ons. Compared to most key forwards I actually think he's pretty good.
I agree that sometimes his timing on his leads is off and he can get stuck in no man's land but in games where our ball use is more direct he seems to be much better.
His kicking for goal is a not very fluid but is serviceable while his kicking in defence was always edge of your seat stuff. I think people forget this. As you mentioned his field kicking is not great so playing him close to goal remedies this to an extent.
His 2 strengths are being able to take a contested mark even when the ball is kicked to the opposition's advantage and being able recover faster from a making contest than his opponents.
Both of those traits are huge in our forward line where we rarely much to advantage and are often outnumbered.
Naughton wouldn't have the same licence to try to mark everything as a defender so that would diminish one of his strengths.
I think long term is a no brainer to develop Naughton as a forward.
This year is a trickier proposition because of our apparent weakness in defence and oversupply of tall forward options.
 

VogonProsthetnic

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 26, 2010
5,137
7,046
Beaufort
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Doubt many people would agree he is a better forward than defender- his first season as a KPD as an 18 yo was as a good I have ever seen.

Moving him forward was an act of desperation. At the time Gowers, Schache and an injured Boyd were our only options.

Now that we have Bruce, Schache, English and hopefully Jamarra, the argument is much weaker.
 
Aug 1, 2008
15,149
25,674
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I disagree about his forward instincts. He's kicked a couple of goals with quick kicks off the ground from a contest at sharp angles and has a few assists with clever knock ons. Compared to most key forwards I actually think he's pretty good.
I agree that sometimes his timing on his leads is off and he can get stuck in no man's land but in games where our ball use is more direct he seems to be much better.
His kicking for goal is a not very fluid but is serviceable while his kicking in defence was always edge of your seat stuff. I think people forget this. As you mentioned his field kicking is not great so playing him close to goal remedies this to an extent.
His 2 strengths are being able to take a contested mark even when the ball is kicked to the opposition's advantage and being able recover faster from a making contest than his opponents.
Both of those traits are huge in our forward line where we rarely much to advantage and are often outnumbered.
Naughton wouldn't have the same licence to try to mark everything as a defender so that would diminish one of his strengths.
I think long term is a no brainer to develop Naughton as a forward.
This year is a trickier proposition because of our apparent weakness in defence and oversupply of tall forward options.
Glad to hear a coherent counter-argument.
I would only add that when he did play in defence, he did take a number of contested marks and routinely intercepted kicks. As for his kicking in defence, if I remember correctly, he played within his limitations. I don't recall being overly worried as I am with Gardiner or was with Suckling.

Still your points are well made.

Tell me, though, are you at all concerned that he is a little reckless with his own body up forward, not protecting himself in packs and likely to remain injury prone? Or do you believe it is just a run of bad luck and he is overdue for an extended healthy run?
 
Back