We always seem to carry 4 or 5 blokes every game. Will never win a premiership if that continues.
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List Mgmt. What would you do as list manager this off season?
- Thread starter M Malice
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You can't in any way shape or form criticise our list management considering where we've come from and what we had to work with. Noble and co have done an incredible job.
But you can't carry players and win GF's . Especially in key roles. I don't subscribe to the theory that we're heading towards premierships unless we're able to improve our list across the board.
And I'm sure our brains trust are aware and doing their level best with what they have to work with.
You're right. I've had a look at every stats sheet for every game since Swann / Fagan / Noble took over.
There's always four or five players at the bottom of the sheet. Every. Single. Week.
How we've gone from stone cold last in 2017 to a prelim in 2020 is beyond me.
We've played a very disciplined brand of footy in the last 2 years which wins you most games. But when the discipline breaks down or like last week when the opposition is strong and we're just not up to applying it we get exposed.
We've played 4 finals and won one . So we know where we need to improve. They made some team changes from 2019 to 2020 and there'll be more in 2021.
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- #80
I don't think we necessarily have to another 4-5 players in to take the next step to a GF spot or flag, another A grade mid + Daniher along with natural improvement from our young guns eg. Rayner, Bailey, Starcevich, Hipwood, Coleman, Payne, McCluggage, Berry, Answerth all 22 years of age or under except for Hippy(23) and we'll be fine for a flag tilt.
dlanod
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s**t, I see what you mean.
I went through every game and there's an obvious example of Fagan playing favourites with team selection - it's really disappointing that there's always one consistent name at the bottom of the sheet: "Zorko, Dayne".
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- #82
Got to say I'm a little disappointed that Grant Birchall is staying another year, you have to wonder if it will make Alex Witherden but some serious thought into looking at trade options, Witho is 22 now and your career slips away quicker than you realise, will he want to wait around another year biding his time behind Birchall or will he back himself to unseat Birchall, I can't see us playing all 3 of Birchall, Rich and Witherden.
With the reduction in list sizes (ridiculous we don’t know what they are yet..) plus 2-3 potential new arrivals plus new draftees, I don’t think many on that list will survive unfortunately. I’d keep Hinge though. And Lester will get a new contract.
It’s a shame as I would have liked to have seen a bit more from Wooller, Cox and Lyons especially. We are going to lose players for nothing that go and do a Keays and finish high up in opposition’s B&F IMO.
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You can include Andrews in that mix as well. He's only 24 and still has 2-3 years of improvement also.
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If Alex decides to stay, he will need to rely on injuries and even then, that wont guarantee him a spot in the 22. I honestly believe he should be part of our future plans however I dont think management are on the same page.
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The usual 5 or 6 that just don't impact the game as they should. Yeah, people have off games but it's literally the same 5 blokes that don't trouble the data analytics experts. We need to improve our depth. We have an elite top 8 but after that... We get exposed they have a poor game.
Ralphy2017
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Yes I stated this was a concern early in the season, Birchall would want to go around again, can't blame witho if he seeks a release, although another poster said he recently bought a house, so maybe will stay and fight for his spot. Depends how much encouragement he is getting from the coaches. Also wondering if it affects Payne, because Birchall going around again stops maybe Lester performing a similar role and less chance for Payne to break through permanently. We know Fages resist too many changes, so Witho might not want to wait around until 2022 to again be a permanent member and by then you would think some of the 2019 draftees might be pressing real hard for spots.
Dalions
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I wonder if Birchall’s contract, with a trigger means that the club no longer had a say in next year considering he met that trigger.
Meaning we would have to pay him out if we no longer wanted him on the list.
Personally, I don’t see that he really adds anything greatly to our performance. So maybe they made the mistake of adding those triggers rather than offering a 1 year Contract with the possibility of another year.
So, performance based, but without the trigger.
Probably smart by his management in the end.
Meaning we would have to pay him out if we no longer wanted him on the list.
Personally, I don’t see that he really adds anything greatly to our performance. So maybe they made the mistake of adding those triggers rather than offering a 1 year Contract with the possibility of another year.
So, performance based, but without the trigger.
Probably smart by his management in the end.
Doubt he'd be on significant coin, I personally do think he fits in to our backline & adds some attacking transition options. That being said though, I'd also like to see Witho push him out of the team next year.
Bundy didn't get a run at all this year, think he still would've been a valuable team member & mentor.
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He may add a little more than Witho, with ball in hand.
But defensively, not so much.
So overall it’s negligible as to what he offers over and above.
We could also tell him we are wanting to get games into our younger backline players and he may well be in the 2s more often than not next season which could force his hand into retiring. Be great if we had some vision of Pryor and Smith playing in the 2s games this season.
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I am hoping that happens naturally with him on the list anyway.
There's no obligation on us to play him but he'll be handy to have around as a mentor and certainly able to slot in to the team if we need him at various times throughout the year.
Unlike others I don't think he's cooked , he's hardly had much footy for a while when we got him and he needed this year to get going again, but likewise not a fan of playing him regularly if he's holding someone up who we see as a LT prospect.
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Interesting how people say Birchall keep Witho out
No talk how Rich plays the same role. I have Richy ahead of both. If Witho was playing as good as Rich then Birchall in trouble.
At the moment I still have Birchall ahead still for me even though Birchall has faults.
So really up to Witho to improve and take his spot. A big pre season to work on his aerobic abilities would help.
I remember a few players with small tanks getting help from athletic coaches to help them. I know genetic etc although he needs to build his tank.
He also work on his defensive capabilities.. Hodge was not quick although got in great spots and read the play.
I said before you cannot just be a good kick, he only young still plenty of time.
Personally I would replace both in my back 7 if we find someone with speed of HB
Keep Rich,Starc and Ah Chee/Answerth and talls Andrews, Gardiner and Lester/Adams/Payne.
The whole players like McStay, Birchall, Lester keeping kids out.
You hear less about Lester keeping Payne out than you do Birchall keeping Witho out.
If Adams gets fit where does that put Payne? or Lester?
I have all three going for one role as well.
Ah Chee and Answerth the same..Then we have the kids coming through on HB as well.
Same as McStay. Skinner and Ballenden do not think putting the pressure for his spot.
Have more hopes long term for Fullerton. Daniher if he comes might push McStay out unless we do not go second ruck forward.
I say be up to Witherden if he wants to stay or go
We helped move on Walker, Keays, Taylor and Cutler last year all have talent just could not cement a spot.
Prime examples of people who could not get a 22 role for the last few years.
No talk how Rich plays the same role. I have Richy ahead of both. If Witho was playing as good as Rich then Birchall in trouble.
At the moment I still have Birchall ahead still for me even though Birchall has faults.
So really up to Witho to improve and take his spot. A big pre season to work on his aerobic abilities would help.
I remember a few players with small tanks getting help from athletic coaches to help them. I know genetic etc although he needs to build his tank.
He also work on his defensive capabilities.. Hodge was not quick although got in great spots and read the play.
I said before you cannot just be a good kick, he only young still plenty of time.
Personally I would replace both in my back 7 if we find someone with speed of HB
Keep Rich,Starc and Ah Chee/Answerth and talls Andrews, Gardiner and Lester/Adams/Payne.
The whole players like McStay, Birchall, Lester keeping kids out.
You hear less about Lester keeping Payne out than you do Birchall keeping Witho out.
If Adams gets fit where does that put Payne? or Lester?
I have all three going for one role as well.
Ah Chee and Answerth the same..Then we have the kids coming through on HB as well.
Same as McStay. Skinner and Ballenden do not think putting the pressure for his spot.
Have more hopes long term for Fullerton. Daniher if he comes might push McStay out unless we do not go second ruck forward.
I say be up to Witherden if he wants to stay or go
We helped move on Walker, Keays, Taylor and Cutler last year all have talent just could not cement a spot.
Prime examples of people who could not get a 22 role for the last few years.
And which blokes are they?
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the bottom 5-6 rotate every club has them. bringing them up so the 4-5 disposals they have are meaningful.
Like Rayner QF vs Tigers. 1 kick Goal. 4 handballs think created 2-3 other goals.
We do have some serial offenders who go missing often.
But SM said it was literally the same five blokes. I'm curious which ones, since I see a rotation at the bottom like you describe, including Charlie Cameron and Harris Andrews some weeks. The only serial offender I can see is McStay, and even then you expect key position players to have fewer disposals.
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- #99
I thought for sure we would hear about some delistings by the end of this week, looks like we'll have to wait till next week.
Reckon watch out just after 5pm today? Traditional dumping ground for bad news....
