Whateley's wrap

[Proper Gander]

Dank warfarinised rugby players. Therefore should get done for that alone.

Goodski and fine. But why is this proposed on the AFL - ASADA - Drugs page?

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Dank warfarinised rugby players. Therefore should get done for that alone.

How do you know it was warfarin? Prove it.

By the supplier provided invoice, or a written statement by the supplier that that is what they gave Dank? I don't think so. What paperwork is there that proves it went into Dank's possession even if you can get evidence he purchased it. Dank could have used it for other patients. Or he lost it. Or the Giant Spaghetti Monster stole it. And if you can prove it, how can you prove it was actually warfarin that the players received. Blood tests? If Dank has recorded that's what he gave them, how can you prove he wasn't lying when he said that? No, no. Far too much doubt there.

The new test for comfortable satisfaction has taken quantum leaps and bounds lately.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Goodski and fine. But why is this proposed on the AFL - ASADA - Drugs page?

The reason I feel dank deserves bankruptcy and unemployablity. Only became aware of this as part of the blackest day in sport investigation

How do you know it was warfarin? Prove it.

By the supplier provided invoice, or a written statement by the supplier that that is what they gave Dank? I don't think so. What paperwork is there that proves it went into Dank's possession even if you can get evidence he purchased it. Dank could have used it for other patients. Or he lost it. Or the Giant Spaghetti Monster stole it. And if you can prove it, how can you prove it was actually warfarin that the players received. Blood tests? If Dank has recorded that's what he gave them, how can you prove he wasn't lying when he said that? No, no. Far too much doubt there.

The new test for comfortable satisfaction has taken quantum leaps and bounds lately.

actually blood tests if they were done easily show effect of warfarin. Plus it was documented and dank challenged the paper for defamation and lost over this matter. Therefore it is now truth.
Also he injected it, now that isn't evn how warfarin is supposed to be given (intramuscular injection is contraindicated if you are on warfarin). He's a completely stupid head and therefore deserves bankruptcy.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

actually blood tests if they were done easily show effect of warfarin. Plus it was documented and dank challenged the paper for defamation and lost over this matter. Therefore it is now truth.
Also he injected it, now that isn't evn how warfarin is supposed to be given (intramuscular injection is contraindicated if you are on warfarin). He's a completely stupid head and therefore deserves bankruptcy.

The paper's win is only insofar as did they commit the offense of defamation. It was not an medical expert's unanimous opinion. The judge found according to the law he was not defamed. That's all.

The fact it was injected proves it wasn't warfarin (somehow, I have no idea). Dank has to get off. The you-can't-prove-nothing-if-the-fix-is-in level of comfortable satisfaction criteria is not met here.

And never will be.

 

[Crankyhawk]

The paper's win is only insofar as did they commit the offense of defamation. It was not an medical expert's unanimous opinion. The judge found according to the law he was not defamed. That's all.

The fact it was injected proves it wasn't warfarin (somehow, I have no idea). Dank has to get off. The you-can't-prove-nothing-if-the-fix-is-in level of comfortable satisfaction criteria is not met here.

And never will be.

I interpret as the court there was satisfied that as nothing defamatory was said therefore he did inject warfarin (must have ground it up or used some compounding chemist). Therefore a court has been comfortably satisfied. Therefore it follows that he deserves to be penniless.

 

[Crankyhawk]

plus I can't think any sporting body will help him, he will get chucked under the bus.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

People believe it's likely becasue its common sense and they're not blinded by their loyalty to the club. To claim they believe its likely becasue of the media is rubbish when most of it has been peddling ASADA as the bad guy when they're anything but.

The Chinese company, Charters, Alavi and Dank all believed they were working with TB4 and it's components; the players signed a consent form that they will be injected with 'Thymosin,' and it's been confirmed that the substance was not Thymosin-alpha, those are the facts. Now without peddling ridiculous bias, please tell me how you think it's unlikely that they were injected with TB4?
The reality is the system didn't allow ASADA to legally force relevant parties to speak under oath to prove their case. It's not ASADA's fault for pursuing this and noone should be outraged by this: it's their responsibility to chase cheats, which in this situation it's likely that Essendon were.

Right.

So an independent tribunal of three experienced, intelligent gentlemen waded through literally tons of evidence, collected over 18 months, and returned a 130 page finding that they could not be comfortably satisfied that the substance was TB4.

And I'm supposed to think it was likely TB4, and if I don't im just being blind.

I don't dispute that they wanted TB4. Given it was cooked up and then not even tested for its end properties, I wouldn't have a ****in clue what it was, I don't think anybody could say that for sure, including Dank, who I don't regard as anywhere near as intelligent or trustworthy as he believes he might be.

Whether Dank then took that Essendon and gave it to players I wouldn't know, the tribunal didn't even look at it.

Of course it's possible. Likely? No. I don't think anybody knows, including cowboy Dank.

 

[stanley86]

Yep, he admitted it on AFL 360 last year

wow
so the man who was Alberts #1 media fan boy had the guy who compounded all the "unknowns" as a teacher at school many moons ago
this story is just getting more and more 6 degrees and deeper crappola wow you couldn't script (pardon the pun) this

 

[stanley86]

one thing that makes no sense at all to me is this
The tribunal have said it was TB4 they were intending to use
A player admitted he was told the brown vial was "Thymosin"
The molecular weight was tested as being very close to TB4
yet they weren't comfortably satisfied ..all good, the tribunals decision, good luck to the players

But....

I am pretty sure Wade Lees got 2 years suspension for ordering and importing PEDs that never even made it into his possession
Customs took it and informed ASADA

Am I reading it all wrong and is this what they will get Dank on?
Or should the same standard be applied? It was TB4 they intended to use so therefore it must have been TB4?

I am even more confused than before I started writing this, someone help me

 

[thegerman]

I don't think you quite have your head around this. We're not talking about choosing Panodol or Nurofen and taking a pack off the shelf at Coles. These are substances that are produced via compounding. It's like me asking you to gather ingredients and make Panadol yourself, and then convince me it is actually Panadol, absolutely identical in a chemical sense. Without testing it.

Such dodgy supply chains were used and the substance was never tested properly post compounding. Nobody knows wtf it really was in its final chemical form.

ASADA didn't have the evidence to prove it was TB4 in a chemical sense, let alone if it went to Essendon and was given to players.

Comfortable satisfaction is a purposefully low burden of proof. There is no reasonable way these ridiculous cases could have been proven even at that level, nor should they even have been prosecuted. That's a question for the thoroughly moronic and incompetent Mr McDevitt.

Club sanctions were appropriate here and that's what happened.

So if you deal a substance to someone that believes it to be cocaine, will you get off for dealing?

 

[thegerman]

Right.

So an independent tribunal of three experienced, intelligent gentlemen waded through literally tons of evidence, collected over 18 months, and returned a 130 page finding that they could not be comfortably satisfied that the substance was TB4.

And I'm supposed to think it was likely TB4, and if I don't im just being blind.

I don't dispute that they wanted TB4. Given it was cooked up and then not even tested for its end properties, I wouldn't have a ****in clue what it was, I don't think anybody could say that for sure, including Dank, who I don't regard as anywhere near as intelligent or trustworthy as he believes he might be.

Whether Dank then took that Essendon and gave it to players I wouldn't know, the tribunal didn't even look at it.

Of course it's possible. Likely? No. I don't think anybody knows, including cowboy Dank.

The point to this all, is who determined what a 'comfortable satisfaction' level actually is. Was it the three supposedly impartial members that
sat on the panel, or from historical events in case law regarding illegal drug use in sport?

I know which, and it wasn't the latter.

 

[Vindicater]

The tribunal were wrong and they know it.

Are you serious?

In what way can you say that they know they were wrong.

You are acting like a petulant third grader who just lost his sprint race at sports day and is blaming everyone but himself for the loss.

The tribunal found in the players favour.

That goes against what you wanted.

That does not mean the tribunal were wrong.

To say they know they were wrong is...

 

[BlueWorld]

The tribunal were wrong and they know it. The question is why did they say they weren't comfortably satisfied when anyone with a brain could be comfortably satisfied TB4 was used?

Ask the AFL.

 

[Boxhead_31]

Based on what Whatley said (and he has at least read the report) I think dank can still go for intent to use thymosin beta 4. Tribunal appeared satisfied that the intent was there, but not sure that the chemical obtained was in fact that, and also not sure what alavi gave dank even if alavi had tb4.

Dank has to be cleared for the same reasons the players were cleared.
Can't have one without the other

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Right.

So an independent tribunal of three experienced, intelligent gentlemen waded through literally tons of evidence, collected over 18 months, and returned a 130 page finding that they could not be comfortably satisfied that the substance was TB4.

And I'm supposed to think it was likely TB4, and if I don't im just being blind.

I don't dispute that they wanted TB4. Given it was cooked up and then not even tested for its end properties, I wouldn't have a ****in clue what it was, I don't think anybody could say that for sure, including Dank, who I don't regard as anywhere near as intelligent or trustworthy as he believes he might be.

Whether Dank then took that Essendon and gave it to players I wouldn't know, the tribunal didn't even look at it.

Of course it's possible. Likely? No. I don't think anybody knows, including cowboy Dank.

Honestly, I sit here and read your post alone, and I am legitimately shocked that you're not incensed by this.

As an actual supporter of the club, reading what you've posted above, I can't believe you're not leading the charge to get to the bottom of what happened and have anyone at the club at the time in any role of responsibility sacked on the spot.


'Cooked up'

'Thought they were getting...'

'Could have been anything...'

'Not even tested'



Fair dinkum. This shit was being injected into players from your club, seemingly against their own better judgement.

And you're defending the joint?


Staggering.

 

[I Remember Bluey]

!!! Tops plan. Let's lock that in

With Echols as mod

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Dank has to be cleared for the same reasons the players were cleared.
Can't have one without the other

We know from the leaks that the tribunal were comfortably satisfied that dank intended to use TB-4 on essendon players & purchased what he thought was TB-4 from charter

There's no way he's going to be cleared, he'll get done for attempted doping at the very least

 

[hoianbulldog]

The first half of this video contains a wrap-up by the most accomplished journalist on this saga, by far.

As usual he doesn't favour either side, just tells it like it is. Worth a watch if you haven't seen it.

Wouldn't pay much attention to Robbo obviously.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/video/i...qcxm/AFL-360:-Why-ASADA's-Bombers-case-failed

If I understand the summary the tribunal found the followings:

1. All of Dank, Charter and Alavi intended to or thought they were supplying or compounding TB4.
2. The tribunal found that the good thymo was not used at EFC.
3. Nobody at EFC has any idea what was injected into the players.
4. Dank, charter and Alavi are as dodgie as all get out.
5. Deplorable level of record keeping by EFC.
6. Dank treated like a drug God by EFC.

Long live a clean AFL.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Honestly, I sit here and read your post alone, and I am legitimately shocked that you're not incensed by this.

As an actual supporter of the club, reading what you've posted above, I can't believe you're not leading the charge to get to the bottom of what happened and have anyone at the club at the time in any role of responsibility sacked on the spot.


'Cooked up'

'Thought they were getting...'

'Could have been anything...'

'Not even tested'



Fair dinkum. This shit was being injected into players from your club, seemingly against their own better judgement.

And you're defending the joint?


Staggering.

I'm not defending the joint.

We knew all this 18 months ago when the AFL whacked us.

The salient point at the moment is the disgraceful actions of ASADA in pursuing this witch hunt against the players.

And since the correct, inevitable decision, that ****wit McDevitt had led the charge in clouding the issue with "findings" everybody knew about 18 months ago.

Why did you pursue this garbage Ben, you arseh*le?

 

[fabulousphil]

I'm not defending the joint.

We knew all this 18 months ago when the AFL whacked us.

The salient point at the moment is the disgraceful actions of ASADA in pursuing this witch hunt against the players.

And since the correct, inevitable decision, that ******* McDevitt had led the charge in clouding the issue with "findings" everybody knew about 18 months ago.

Why did you pursue this garbage Ben, you arseh*le?

A witch hunt of massive proportions, followed by an angry mob of pitch fork wielding anti Hirdites seeking blood.

Burn the witch, burn the witch, we are pretty sure he is guilty, McD told us, Caro told us

Hird has so much more class than McD.

 

[fabulousphil]

Starting to think you are related to Hird with laughable comments like that.

pretty obvious i am

I lived in Canberra for a long time, so that could be it !

Both Mcd and Hird are also from Canberra

 

[master bate]

ASADA went after the players and couldn't get them. They are going after Hird. Why couldn't ASADA just charge Essendon with something?

Essendon the club have only had finals stripped, draft picks taken and a 2mil fine which doesn't do much. A big penalty but it only scratches the surface if they were not only running a dodgy drug experiment but running a dodgy doping drug experiment.

Considering all evidence points towards Essendon employing someone who had intention to dope regardless if the players took it or not I think ASADA should be able to add punishment to them.

 

[Ramify]

You can go down for manufacturing methamphetamine in this country whilst in possession of nothing more than glassware and a dodgy search history .No precursor, no trace evidence nothing more than prosecution infenence.

Can't believe these cheating bastards got off. Wish the same burden of proof existed in a criminal court...

 

[Admiral Byng]

I am even more confused than before I started writing this, someone help me

Charter went down to Coles and bought a bottle of Coke. He passed it on to Alavi, and then Alavi passed it on to Dank. Dank gave it to the players. However, the players only listed fizzy soft drinks on their consent form, not specifically Coke. Even though Charter got a docket from Coles saying he purchased Coke, the tribunal are not comfortably satisfied that this product made it all the way through the chain to the players, they have found the players not guilty just in case it might have actually been Fanta.

 

[bomberstomake8]

If I understand the summary the tribunal found the followings:

1. All of Dank, Charter and Alavi intended to or thought they were supplying or compounding TB4.
2. The tribunal found that the good thymo was not used at EFC.
3. Nobody at EFC has any idea what was injected into the players.
4. Dank, charter and Alavi are as dodgie as all get out.
5. Deplorable level of record keeping by EFC.
6. Dank treated like a drug God by EFC.

Long live a clean AFL.

Everyone seems to use those two points to suit their own argument. They are completely conflicting for you, on one hand you are using their opinions as gospel and then the next you are saying they are dodgie as all get out. Which one is it?