What's all the hoo-ha about, have a look at the list!

[Asgardian]

I have done an analysis on a couple of club lists, one of them was on the Eagles, who I consider to be one of the favourites for the wooden spoon. However, to be fair, I should also look at a few other clubs, so here is my evaluation on the Dockers.
This is done in all seriousness, and I try to be as fair, and impartial as I can.
( I am not aware of any delistings yet sorry)

Peter Bell :- He's the Rolls Royce of your midfield fleet
Brad Bootsma :- Use by date has elapsed
Leigh Brown :- Strong defender, lots of good games to come
Adam Butler :- Has size, has he got talent?
Matthew Carr :- Surprise packet of Dockers 2001 season
Ashley Clancy :- Needs to get taller for his pace
Troy Cook :- Mongrel attitude, I like that
Trent Croad :- Big wraps, can he deliver?
Ben Cunningham :- Needs to show some improvement in 2002
Brad Dodd :- Semi hack, not up to AFL standard
Simon Eastaugh :- Hack workhorse, not up to it
Jeff Farmer :- Got it all, just not every week though
Brendon Fewster :- Hack
Antoni Grover :- Hasn't done enough, maybe delist?
Robert Haddrill :- Maybe a late developer
Paul Hasleby :- Damn good, but back and body shape ?'s
Anthony Jones :- A servicable journeyman
Dale Kickett :- If you still need him your in trouble
Steven Koops :- Enigma, which persona will turn up to play?
Justin Longmuir :- Special kid, a long term player
Troy Longmuir :- Good, if he can forget his brother's ability
Shaun McManus :- Hack, a turnover king
Luke McPharlin :- Tons of ability, can he beat the groin?
Adam McPhee :- Lots to like about this kid
Daniel Metropolis :- Bad knee, and age?
Clem Michael :- Questions if he'll ever come back, & survive
Jason Norrish :- Hack
Shane Parker :- Can do a job for you
Matthew Pavlich :- Big wraps, it's time to actually deliver
Ashley Prescott :- Could still be of some use
Andrew Shipp :- Looks great, just doesn't play that way
Troy Simmonds :- Can play a role, just don't rely on him
Dwayne Simpson :- Will he stay on the list?
Scott Thornton :- Haven't seen him play
Luke Toia :- Can he, and does he want to play again?
James Walker :- Disappointing, a back up player only
Clive Waterhouse :- I know this guy, he doesn't quite have it
Brad Wira :- Hack
Dion Woods :- Talented kid, should be a good player

For me there are too many question marks over the Freo squad to be comfortable with a prediction of anything greater than a table finish of about number 10 - 12

 

[sabre_ac]

Fremantles starting 18
I dare say is as good as that of ports.
I tipped your club to take a dive and I am sticking behind it.

If you dont believe me have a look at it

FF. Farmer Longmuir Koops
HF Waterhouse Pavlich McPhee
C Walker Haselby Woods
HB Parker Croad Longmuir
FB McPharlin Brown Kickett
Fol Micheal Cook Bell

That center line is up there with the best
Brown,Croad,Haselby,Pavlich and Longmuir
All 21 and under
We are oozing young key position players all extremely versitle.
Strong forward line that the likes of McPharlin,Craod and brown can be thrown in as a pinch hit type player.
Port dont have half that many top shelf key position players.
And I am going to go out on a limb here and say that if we have a near full strength side to choose from next year, we will beat port at home

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Phhht, they add 4 players to their list and suddenly they will go from wooden spooners to beating Port, a top 4 side. I don't think so.

No team ever goes a full season without injuries, so don't expect freo to. Injuries to 4 players and suddenly your "quality" team is the same as in 2001. Don't get over confident, because even though freo's recruiting staff may have done a good job, you have a long way to go before you will be any challenge to port.

 

[jod23]

Well Asgardian now im more confused...

Freo according to you have more hacks then WC but you think they will finish higher on the ladder??

Freo's Semi Hacks
Dodd

Freo's Hacks
Fewster
Eastaugh
McManus
Norrish
Wira

Eagles Semi Hacks
Carroll
Cummings

Eagles Hacks
Turnbull
Harding
Seirakowski

Freo have 6 to 5 and the worst part about it is that all 6 of Freos hacks will probably be on there list next year whereas Harding & Turnbull are sure to be delisted and Cummings is in limbo.

Freo's rucking capability is bad, Longmuir is ok but is a better forward and Michael was never that good before being injured, as you said Eastuagh is there backup but is a hack. There midfield will suffer without Fletcher and Black whereas our midfield should get stronger with Kerr, Fletcher (finally stepping up) Jones, Banners will be back as will Morrison and Braun, you personally have great raps on Humm and he should get plenty of games next season. And lets not forget Cousins.

You have devised and picked apart the lists but now i wouldnt mind your actual reasoning as to why Freo will finish higher than the Eagles next season.

 

[sabre_ac]

Jod show me a starting line up
And ill tell you why we will finish 2 positions ahead of you at least.

 

[jod23]

Presuming everyone is healthy and ready to go.

Off the top of my head

Read McIntosh Collica
Morrison Jakovich Pet Matera
Wirrpunda Kerr Braun
Williams Seirakowski Embly
Ph Matera Cummings Merenda
Gardiner Cousins Jones

See now i look at that and realise that i couldnt find room for a wealth of talent in Glass, Haynes, Humm, Banfield, Fletcher, Cox, Green, Wilson, Gaspar, Taylor...

I think we have a lot more depth than Freo plus we have 3 or 4 pretty good youngster to come in from the draft.

 

[Voice of Reason]

sabre

Until your club actually does something on the field of play, your words are emptier than the Freo trophy cabinet. It's just an opinion. Who knows what will happen next year?

I like Jod's line-up better than yours. But of course I'm biased (very biased).

Asgardian

Well?

 

[jod23]

Well Asgardian, you still with us.

 

[Chris_23]

Just thought i'd throw my impartial views into the ring.

I like the look of the new Freo line up. Plenty of young talent, in fact i think they'll be a great side in a few years time. IMO Freo will not improve significantly next year. It takes time for these young guys to develop. Guys like Longmuir, Pavlich, Haselby etc are still young men with only 2 seasons experience. There just isn't enough experience or leadership there yet.

Peter Bell - Great leader, great player. No problem there.

Jeff Farmer - Experienced player. Still, he's not really leadership material. He needs the team to play well for him to make a huge impact.

Clive Waterhouse - One of the more experienced Dockers but he's to spasmodic. You can't really rely on him every week. I wouldn't be surprised if he does have a good year though. He'll finally get a 3rd string defender minding him, he needs a big one.

Dale Kickett - Good leader but he's hardly going to take a game by the scruff of the neck.

Trent Croad - Not much of a leader. He's aggressive and he stands up for his team mates but he's not ready for the pressure and responsibility of a team like this. No, this isn't sour grapes.

Thats just a few of the more experienced players that the Dockers will need to fire if they are to improve next year.

I've been in the same situation with Hawthorn. We started to re-build in 97 and it took us 4 painful years of frustration before we got to the finals. It's fair to say that Hawthorn of 97-98 are very similar to Freo of today. Lots of big talls with talent, but not enough mid-range and experienced players to share the burden with. Don't expect to much out of the Dockers next year, they're still young men learning the caper. Enjoy watching them develop, it makes watching the finished product that little bit sweeter.

As Rachel Hunter says "It won't happen overnight, but it will happen...."

 

[Asgardian]

VOR and Jod, I was going to do a few more lists before I was going to comment further.
The Geelong list looked pretty ordinary to me, worse than what I was expecting, but the Geelong posters are just saying I'm full of crap, have a look at my summary and see what you guys reckon, coz I can't get any discussion going on the Geelong board.
However at this stage, I have the impression that the Dockers have a bit more scoring capability than the Eagles.
Also, in footy momentum is a wonderful thing, it is intangible, but it does affect how a club performs, Freo have a bit more momentum built up than the Eagles, that can change very rapidly, but it is there at this stage.

Before I say any more, let me do some more teams, to see how they stack up, okay?

 

[Voice of Reason]

Chris

I too think Geelong are in big trouble. They've more or less admitted it by going for so many high draft picks this year. St Kilda have some good players, but they'll stuff it up guaranteed. Bulldogs need a rebuild. How long before Adelaide fall backwards, particularly if McLeod gets injured?

I also think the words "momentum" and "Woosha" are made to belong in the same sentence.

 

[jod23]

We are all with you on Geelong, they look in big trouble next year. Just on Freo you say that they have more options forward but the forwards can only kick goals if the midfield gets it there. Freo has a weak midfield....

Ill check out the Geelong board.

 

[TheMase]

Good .. experienced midfields win games...

I think Fremantle is still lacking a little .. not enough depth in the midfield...
Once they get more experience I think this will definetely change.. but I would say you will finished 12th - 15th next year .. and on your way up from there

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by sabre_ac
Fremantles starting 18
I dare say is as good as that of ports.
I tipped your club to take a dive and I am sticking behind it.

Port dont have half that many top shelf key position players.
And I am going to go out on a limb here and say that if we have a near full strength side to choose from next year, we will beat port at home

You're backpedalling within one post, its great

You're saying that you're as good.......but you'd need to be at full strength, and at home to beat us?

Here's a Port starting 18.

F Che C. Cornes Wanganeen
HF Lade Tredrea P. Burgoyne
C Dew Carr Schofield
HB Montgomery Mead Kingsley
B Hardwick Paxman Wilson

Ruck Primus Stevens Francou

and our interchange is pretty buff too...James, Guerra, Burgoyne, Wakelin

 

[anchor man]

I'm not going to enter the debate on which is the best squad but I must take to task JOD23 on Clem Michael.Obviously you have not seen him play much or you would not say he wasn't much good.Stick to things you know about.He was sadly missed this year and is a star of the future if his knee stands up.
Just a comment or two on a couple of our players listed by asguardian.Shipp can play,unfortunately has been dogged by injury,Scott Thornton was impressive with South Fremantle in the latter part of the season and should play a large number of games for us in the coming season.Bit hard on Simon Eastaugh calling him a hack he did a big job for us this year and was well and truely worth his place in the team and allowed us the luxury of playing JLO up forward.

 

[Asgardian]

Now that I have completed reviewing all team lists, and comparing them, and have had a "sabbatical", I'm coming back to do a final judgment on where I reckon you'll be in 2002.

We have seen time and time again that the difference between a top team, and a bottom one, is a difference in degrees only, however, the gap to go from bad to good in one season has traditionally been too difficult to overcome. Very few teams manage to get through a season without losing some key players to injury, because of this, I often make a team judgement baised upon the back up players. In this area I believe the Dockers weaknesses are highlighted, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and the Dockers weakest is very very poor.

Yes, the Dockers will improve, but it will not be meteoric, they had made some good steps forward off-field, they now need to do so on-field

I predict the Dockers will finish season 2002 in 12th position

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by Asgardian
Now that I have completed reviewing all team lists, and comparing them, and have had a "sabbatical", I'm coming back to do a final judgment on where I reckon you'll be in 2002.

We have seen time and time again that the difference between a top team, and a bottom one, is a difference in degrees only, however, the gap to go from bad to good in one season has traditionally been too difficult to overcome. Very few teams manage to get through a season without losing some key players to injury, because of this, I often make a team judgement baised upon the back up players. In this area I believe the Dockers weaknesses are highlighted, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and the Dockers weakest is very very poor.

Yes, the Dockers will improve, but it will not be meteoric, they had made some good steps forward off-field, they now need to do so on-field

I predict the Dockers will finish season 2002 in 12th position

Im going 14th and to be ahead of Geelong and the Saints...

 

[Visro]

Originally posted by anchor man
I'm not going to enter the debate on which is the best squad but I must take to task JOD23 on Clem Michael.Obviously you have not seen him play much or you would not say he wasn't much good.Stick to things you know about.He was sadly missed this year and is a star of the future if his knee stands up.
Just a comment or two on a couple of our players listed by asguardian.Shipp can play,unfortunately has been dogged by injury,Scott Thornton was impressive with South Fremantle in the latter part of the season and should play a large number of games for us in the coming season.Bit hard on Simon Eastaugh calling him a hack he did a big job for us this year and was well and truely worth his place in the team and allowed us the luxury of playing JLO up forward.

Clem Michael is allready 25. He was a good player before his knee went out on him. What exactly is wrong with it? He didn't get a knee reconstruction did he, cause usually they only take a year at the max. Michael has been out for about 1 and a half now and it will take him a long time before he gets back to AFL. Its a shame, because when playing well, he was a good player, not as good as his dad but good nonetheless and it will be a shame if a career is cut short through injury.

 

[dockerbabe]

Originally posted by Visro


Clem Michael is allready 25. He was a good player before his knee went out on him. What exactly is wrong with it? He didn't get a knee reconstruction did he, cause usually they only take a year at the max. Michael has been out for about 1 and a half now and it will take him a long time before he gets back to AFL. Its a shame, because when playing well, he was a good player, not as good as his dad but good nonetheless and it will be a shame if a career is cut short through injury.

clem michael had some experimental operation i think and should hopefully be back next season
a few week b4 last season ended they said 4 to 5 weeks so he should be back next season

 

[eagleskickass]

it has been reported he is still running with a limp, but I saw him on the news the other night and he was kicking the ball and stuff. I think he should be ready for RD1, but he will not be at his best straight away!

 

[dockerbabe]

Originally posted by eagleskickass
it has been reported he is still running with a limp, but I saw him on the news the other night and he was kicking the ball and stuff. I think he should be ready for RD1, but he will not be at his best straight away!

no one that has had a year or more of footy off is not going to be at their best and no one should expect him to be at his best
i don't recon he will play much of the round one game if any

does anyone have any news on luke toia or brad dodd???

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by sabre_ac
Fremantles starting 18
I dare say is as good as that of ports.
I tipped your club to take a dive and I am sticking behind it.

If you dont believe me have a look at it

FF. Farmer Longmuir Koops
HF Waterhouse Pavlich McPhee
C Walker Haselby Woods
HB Parker Croad Longmuir
FB McPharlin Brown Kickett
Fol Micheal Cook Bell

That center line is up there with the best
Brown,Croad,Haselby,Pavlich and Longmuir
All 21 and under
Port dont have half that many top shelf key position players.
And I am going to go out on a limb here and say that if we have a near full strength side to choose from next year, we will beat port at home

i say you should be a comedian sabre!!!!
That centre line is nothing!!!! Walker and Woods make it up there with the best??? Walker is a hack. Woods - he has potential but is still young. Youve got Mcpharlin in a back pocket now?? I thought he was your new forward player? Mcphee up forward?? has he ever played up forward before??
Youll beat Port at Ports home - or Freos home??

I say neither. That list is nowhere near as good as Ports.
Ports first 18 could beat Freos first 18 anyday of the week.
The dockers wont finish last thats for sure - they will be in the 9-12 category. But they wont jump from wooden spooners to Top 4 side - which Port is.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by sabre_ac
Jod show me a starting line up
And ill tell you why we will finish 2 positions ahead of you at least.

But you must take off the Sabre optimism factor

so make that read - about level with the Eagles

Thank god for saint kilda I hear them say in the West

 

[Cyclops]

Its pretty painful when Asgardian looks at your list: when he did the Magpies I winced. Once I suppressed my natural bias, I had to admit the reviews he's done are pretty accurate and impartial (as far as my limited knowledge goes).

On the whole Freo-Port debate, I think the Freo top ten players look classier than the Port top ten. Maybe the whole list is classier. Visible class is only a fraction of the equation. Character, positive club culture and coaching are all just as important as individual ability. On those scores Port will thrash Freo as often as they play them. Connolly and Schwab will have to utterly transform Freo to bring them up to Port's excellent level, and it will take years.

By the way, I was taught by a PE teacher called Chris Connolly at Kew High in the early 1980's. If it's the same guy he used to drive kids to interschool sports events. While he was driving he'd sing along with the radio (3XY) using a hairbrush as a microphone. Hah ha! Excellent heckling material-if it's him...

 

[Asgardian]

So much for all those plans that relied on Clem Michael