What's been your club's best 5 year period in history?

[Meteoric Rise]

Is it? Have you checked 2007 Port Adelaide's finals form heading into GF day? They just won a prelim by 87 points, which was the very most recent data point.

From this angle, I can understand how you have them well ahead of 2011 Collingwood just like the rest of the football world.

One exception does not mean that finals form is not the best guide to how good a GF team is.

You would have to show which of the other possible guides(h&a wins, previous & future years performance, AA selections etc is a better guide.) None of them are.

 

[Mr Meow]

Winning multiple Premierships within a time frame clearly elevates a team above failing to do so, that is not even debatable, unless you are Fadge and claim 2010 Bulldogs were 10 goals better than the Richmond dynasty team.

But going by your logic for the relative strength of contenders, if say 2009 PF Bulldogs kicked a fraction straighter and Saints played to the exact same level, and Bulldogs win, they both become flash in the pan GF teams. Whereas because the Dogs Kicked 7.11 to Saints 9.6, Saints are a very high quality GF opponent.

Makes no sense.

Just explain how Geelong facing the 2011 Pies at the MCG was an easier proposition than Hawthorn facing the 2013 Dockers at the G or Richmond facing the 2019 Giants at the G. Use whatever logic you like. But your finals winning margin metric has Port 2007 as Geelong's biggest challenge from its dynasty, and it's easy to see how absurd that truly is.

2017 Adelaide based on their % from QF and PF would be a far bigger scalp than the 2008 Cats or 2012 Hawks. It just doesn't work.

 

[Mr Meow]

One exception does not mean that finals form is not the best guide to how good a GF team is.

You would have to show which of the other possible guides(h&a wins, previous & future years performance, AA selections etc is a better guide.) None of them are.

I've pointed out several other examples of comparisons that simply don't make sense, if your metrics were applied to determine strength of opponent.

Just like measuring dynasty sides, the relevant 5 or 6 year periods of the challengers of course are taken into account. The overall win/loss and % of the challenger's entire season in question remains the biggest factor. As is whether there was genuine home ground advantage in the finals, including grand finals. These are far more relevant factors for degree of difficulty than if a BOG average 2015 Eagles side travelling to the G had a % of 171 based on finals.

 

[Fadge]

Is it? Have you checked 2007 Port Adelaide's finals form heading into GF day? They just won a prelim by 87 points, which was the very most recent data point.

From this angle, I can understand how you have them well ahead of 2011 Collingwood just like the rest of the football world.

Here are my 'Best 5 Non-Winning Grand Finalists' of the 21st Century, using Fadgelogic:
1. Geelong 2008
2. Collingwood 2011
3. St. Kilda 2009
4. Brisbane 2004
5. Essendon 2001

The next batch are teams like Hawthorn 2012, Sydney 2014 and 2016.

I wonder what the 'Best 5 non-winning Grand Finalists are using the Rusey Algorithm? Meteoric Rise?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Here are my 'Best 5 Non-Winning Grand Finalists' of the 21st Century, using Fadgelogic:
1. Geelong 2008
2. Collingwood 2011
3. St. Kilda 2009
4. Brisbane 2004
5. Essendon 2001

The next batch are teams like Hawthorn 2012, Sydney 2014 and 2016.

I wonder what the 'Best 5 non-winning Grand Finalists are using the Rusey Algorithm? Meteoric Rise?

You could dig them up if you were serious, you should know where they are.

 

[Mr Meow]

Here are my 'Best 5 Non-Winning Grand Finalists' of the 21st Century, using Fadgelogic:
1. Geelong 2008
2. Collingwood 2011
3. St. Kilda 2009
4. Brisbane 2004
5. Essendon 2001

The next batch are teams like Hawthorn 2012, Sydney 2014 and 2016.

I wonder what the 'Best 5 non-winning Grand Finalists are using the Rusey Algorithm? Meteoric Rise?

Adelaide 2017's finals % of 197 has to have them close to top, maybe even outright.

Port's 2007 finals % of 181 would put them in the very upper tier as well.

The 2021 Bulldogs with finals % of 176 also up there with the best.

Of course these are the memorable teams all neutrals have as their strongest GF challengers. I'm pretty sure on MR's metric they would smash most teams on your list.

 

[Fadge]

Adelaide 2017's finals % of 197 has to have them close to top, maybe even outright.

Port's 2007 finals % of 181 would put them in the very upper tier as well.

The 2021 Bulldogs with finals % of 176 also up there with the best.

Of course these are the memorable teams all neutrals have as their strongest GF challengers. I'm pretty sure on MR's metric they would smash most teams on your list.

With GWS 2019 and Geelong 2020 rounding out the top 5, just because.

 

[Mr Meow]

With GWS 2019 and Geelong 2020 rounding out the top 5, just because.

Inadvertently you've uncovered another powerhouse!

Despite losing the QF, the 2020 Cats had a finals % of 193 heading into GF day.

1. 2020 Geelong
2. 2017 Adelaide
3. 2007 Port Adelaide
4. 2021 Bulldogs
5. 2015 West Coast

My top 5 this century, heavily favouring MR's algorithm for challenger status.

 

[Fadge]

Inadvertently you've uncovered another powerhouse!

Despite losing the QF, the 2020 Cats had a finals % of 193 heading into GF day.

1. 2020 Geelong
2. 2017 Adelaide
3. 2007 Port Adelaide
4. 2021 Bulldogs
5. 2015 West Coast

My top 5 this century, heavily favouring MR's algorithm for challenger status.

Of course the Qualifying Finals are excluded from MR's algorithm if you lose them, as they're not knock-out finals.

 

[BF Tiger]

Part of footy is peaking at the right time. Superb work Richmond 2017-2020, seeing that gap in the AFL market left by all teams deciding to be weak at that exact moment, and creating the last great dynasty.

Just so I'm sure... they the cups presented and flags unfurled are the same as any other year, yeah? And I've looked but can't find any * in the record books, which also show Richmond as having 13 full value flags.

 

[Fadge]

Part of footy is peaking at the right time. Superb work Richmond 2017-2020, seeing that gap in the AFL market left by all teams deciding to be weak at that exact moment, and creating the last great dynasty.

Just so I'm sure... they the cups presented and flags unfurled are the same as any other year, yeah? And I've looked but can't find any * in the record books, which also show Richmond as having 13 full value flags.

You might need to have a closer look...

2020* (COVID - shortened season with shortened games).

But good to see a Richmond supporter finally acknowledging 2016 to 2021 as the weakest era in recent times.

 

[Mr Meow]

Part of footy is peaking at the right time. Superb work Richmond 2017-2020, seeing that gap in the AFL market left by all teams deciding to be weak at that exact moment, and creating the last great dynasty.

Just so I'm sure... they the cups presented and flags unfurled are the same as any other year, yeah? And I've looked but can't find any * in the record books, which also show Richmond as having 13 full value flags.

No need for asterisks, all flags count, but much like you could say Richmond's 2020 flag had tougher opponents/circumstances than the previous two (and with shorter quarters, was essentially a new game), other seasons can also be compared in discussions such as these.

Of course if you don't see the point of the discussion there is no onus on you to post here.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Pies would be from 2007-11 the second half of the Malthouse era

• Finals in every year
• Prelim appearances in 4 out of 5 years
• 3 Grand Final apperances
• Brownlow Medallist
• A premiership in 2010

I thought 1926-1930 would be a no-brainer best 5 year period for the Pies, 5 grand finals in a row (6 if you include 1925) and 4 premierships in a row.

 

[BF Tiger]

You might need to have a closer look...

2020* (COVID - shortened season with shortened games).

But good to see a Richmond supporter finally acknowledging 2016 to 2021 as the weakest era in recent times.

Nothing here Fudgey, on the official site of the AFL. Looks like you Fadgorithm directed you to a bogus website.
And nothing here Fudgey, on Wikipedia... Of course I accept that it might read differently on Fudgeypedia, the only place where Collingwood's record amount of Preliminaryship's is recognised.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Probably Carlton's was 1968 - 1972.

1968 - Premiers
1969 - losing grand finalist
1970 - Premiers
1971 - missed the finals with a 14-8 record
1972 - Premiers

Going into the 1968 season most thought that our esteemed captain and spiritual leader, John Nichols, with five best and fairest to his name might end up without a premiership to his name. Ended up with 3 including one as captain coach.

Hopefully the same thing happens to five time John Nichols best and fairest Patrick Cripps. Would be great to see him captain coach us to a flag in 2029.

No, it'd be 1906 to 1910, made grand finals for 5 years straight, 3 premierships in a row in 1906-1908.

 

[Fadge]

Nothing here Fudgey, on the official site of the AFL. Looks like you Fadgorithm directed you to a bogus website.View attachment 2240113
And nothing here Fudgey, on Wikipedia... Of course I accept that it might read differently on Fudgeypedia, the only place where Collingwood's record amount of Preliminaryship's is recognised.
View attachment 2240116

Do either of those sites also recognise Collingwood's record number of Premierships?

 

[timokane]

As in players at Collingwood even tho we were flagless i think 2002 and 2003 were most exciting times and players had that wow factor best ever talented team but runner up back to back.
Childhood memories bit vague but 1990 was great team only for 1 year.
I think since 2022 pies are the in thing 2024 the outlier.
I think i have not yet tho had a 5 year period tho.
Thinking these next 5 years by the looks of it.
Just have not been able to string together a dynasty sady.
A flag drop off for years then come again for the next one.
But think 2025-2030 be a magpie era and well establishing the club as the best in the land.
Yet to materialise.
2023 was great but was 1 year.
2023 was pies best year in my lifetime.
i am 46 years old.

 

[BF Tiger]

Do either of those sites also recognise Collingwood's record number of Premierships?

Wikipedia doesn't actually call it a record, but it does list Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon as all having won 16 premierships from the inception of the league (i.e. most opportunities). All three has won two cups before Richmond even entered the league and followed with more cups before Richmond found their feet. Since 1920 Richmond have been superior to all three in terms of success (13 flags to Collingwood and Carlton's 11 and Essendon's 12).

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Port Adelaide best 5 year streak
2001-2005
H&A 80-1-29.
5 finals series
3 minor premierships
Only 1 flag*

Next best, the last 5 years,
2020-2024
H&A 74-0-33
4 top 3 finishes
Zero GF’s **



* Unfortunately choked a couple of finals
and ran into Brisbane’s 2000-2004 seasons
H&A 76-1-33, 5 finals series, 3 flags

** #Sac#sackken

2003-2007 could argue was a better 5 year period because of the extra grand final appearance in 07, but not many will, lol.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

West Coast would easily have to be 1990 to 1994, 2 premierships, 3 grand finals, 1 preliminary final/semi final finish.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Leading into the 2011 Grand Final, Collingwood's record was 35 wins, 2 draws and 3 losses from the previous 40 games.

Two of the three losses were in dead rubbers - one in the final home and away round of 2010 against Hawthorn after top spot was secured, and the other in the final home and away game of 2011 after top spot was secured.

But the Pies were only an 'average' losing Grand Final team in 2011 according to the great one's 'algorithm'.

FMD.

Geelong had a very similar record, both 2010 and 2011 only 1 loss less compared to Collingwood in both home and away seasons, thus, it was less of a gap to say Geelong v Hawthorn 2008 GF who were 4 losses behind.

 

[timokane]

Collingwood and premierships have been hand in hand since day dot.
The original powerhouse of the game.
I know 16 a piece pies blues and bombers.
but no one has the grand final record like collingwood.
Just an incrediable nack of making the gf all the time.
Every era they made a gf.
I think mid 80s and mid 90s late 90s just in non existence.
But they always have this dip for the flag or in the process of another flag tilt.
A lean year or 2 normally equates to a flag further down the track.
Always building towards a flag.
Weather they win on the day is another thing.
Anything can happen on grand final day like finals itself.
All about the team having both mental and physical edge.
its an in the moment kind of thing.
In it to win it.

 

[BF Tiger]

Collingwood and premierships have been hand in hand since day dot. Not really, league started in 1897 and the Pues didn’t win one until 1903
The original powerhouse of the game. Again not really. Fitzroy and Essendon had two flags each before the Pies won a first. The Pies drew level with two flags but then Fitzroy won two more and then Carlton won three in a row. In fact, after 20 completed seasons Fitzroy had six flags, Carlton had five, Essendon had four and Collingwood had three.
I know 16 a piece pies blues and bombers.
but no one has the grand final record like collingwood. This is true, no-one loses grand finals like Collingwood.
Just an incrediable nack of making the gf all the time. See above comment
Every era they made a gf. How about 1940-1951?
I think mid 80s and mid 90s late 90s just in non existence. What are you trying to say here?
But they always have this dip for the flag or in the process of another flag tilt.That’s the idea I think, nothing special there. Even St Kilda would be saying that
A lean year or 2 normally equates to a flag further down the track.Only took 11 years after the 1999 wooden spoon and 14 years after the 1976 wooden spoon
Always building towards a flag. A 32 year build to 1990 and 20 year build to 2010 and a 13 year build to 2023… so I guess you’re getting better at it
Weather they win on the day is another thing.
Anything can happen on grand final day like finals itself.
All about the team having both mental and physical edge. which hasn’t happened 27 times on GF day alone.
its an in the moment kind of thing.
In it to win it.

 

[Fadge]

The above is hilarious.

Some of the big 'Gotcha's' to explain why Collingwood aren't perennial contenders:

1. They didn't win a flag until their 7th season in the competition;
2. They once went 12 seasons without playing in a Grand Final (half of those seasons were WW2;
3. They've lost 27 Grand Finals, which is more Grand Finals than all but two clubs have played in;
4. There was a time early in the competition that a few clubs had won more premierships than them.

FMD.

 

[BF Tiger]

The above is hilarious.

Some of the big 'Gotcha's' to explain why Collingwood aren't perennial contenders:

1. They didn't win a flag until their 7th season in the competition;
2. They once went 12 seasons without playing in a Grand Final (half of those seasons were WW2;
3. They've lost 27 Grand Finals, which is more Grand Finals than all but two clubs have played in;
4. There was a time early in the competition that a few clubs had won more premierships than them.

FMD.

Surprise surprise… Fudge doesn’t like facts.