What's gone wrong with Melbourne in 2019?

WilloTree

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I agree, being s**t is like gravity all it takes is a push in the form of crap preseason, injuries, form slumps, crap selection and poor coaching.
The difficulty now is that fans will expect a 'slingshot' back up the ladder next year. It's so hard to do now with 18 teams, NGAs, F/S bidding and no priority picks. Last year Round 2 of the Draft didn't start until pick 24!
 

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Topkent

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The difficulty now is that fans will expect a 'slingshot' back up the ladder next year. It's so hard to do now with 18 teams, NGAs, F/S bidding and no priority picks. Last year Round 2 of the Draft didn't start until pick 24!
Except draft picks don't help you rise up the ladder improvement from internal does
 

WilloTree

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Except draft picks don't help you rise up the ladder improvement from internal does
That's true. But in the good old days, you could fast-track the talent coming in, especially through Priority Picks. Imagine West Coast without Shuey and Darling...
 

Johnny Karate

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The difficulty now is that fans will expect a 'slingshot' back up the ladder next year. It's so hard to do now with 18 teams, NGAs, F/S bidding and no priority picks. Last year Round 2 of the Draft didn't start until pick 24!
Yep. There’s an expectation that because Richmond and Collingwood did it, that it’s easy. However, for Collingwood and Richmond, there’s a Freo or Bulldogs.
Need a big preseason, our best players fit and in form and a better balanced approach from the coach’s box to to just to improve on 17th.
 

Juzzk1d

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It's pretty obvious where we went wrong in 2019. It starts with our forward and and inability to kick goals..

I watch a lot of footy, and I'm sometimes memorized at the ease in which some teams can have so many options up forward, and kick goes with relative ease. Whether that's from a simple hit up lead pass inside forward 50, out the back running goal, a simple crumb from a stoppage or a dropped mark. With Melbourne, it seems like 90% of our goals come from luck and hard work. This comes down to having hardly any avenue towards goal.

In 2018, we have been absolutely scarce of players where they can hit the scoreboard. We put all our eggs in the basket of Tom Macdonald and Weideman backing up their years of 2018 (which they haven't), in addition to the absence of Hogan, Melksham being injured and Petracca not finding form until recently, Garlett injured and also completely out of form, Spargo, Hannan, Brayshaw going backwards, (who would all kick goals last year) Fristch being forced to play in the backline for 95% of the season (who we finally have put forward and kicked goals) we have hardly had any players who can hit the scoreboard and make an impact. We've done with a makeshift forward line (Tim Smith, Petty, Lockhart, Wagner etc) for pretty much the entire season, with no continuity and chemistry. This has lead to things like leading patterns, creating space, blocking for others completely void. Which is why our forward 50 entries are so high, yet our conversion rate is so low. Simply because, we don't have the cattle on the park that knows how to hit the scoreboard.

And this all comes down to our recruiting department. Over the past 2 years, we invested heavily into building our defense, that we forgot about our forward line. To the point where we traded 2 x 1st rounders for an injury-riddled Lever & an injury-riddled May. Whilst other clubs are picking up rejects / recycled players (think Roughead / Dunn for Collingwood) have stayed on the park, contributed and have not cost them anything. Geelong did it very well over the off-season. They realised they need more goal kickers. What do they do? They draft guys like Miers, trade in Rohan and Dalhaus. Melbourne has done absolutely nothing the past 3 years, especially through free agency to inject some talent and x factor to our forward line.

We simply are starved for players who can kick goals, and it must be a huge necessity going forward in 2020.
 

Topkent

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That's true. But in the good old days, you could fast-track the talent coming in, especially through Priority Picks. Imagine West Coast without Shuey and Darling...
Seperate subject but the draft should change. Teams who miss finals 2 years in a row should double up on picks until they get back. Bad teams need to be able to build quicker. Having 2 picks before 40 isn't enough
 

Johnny Karate

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It's pretty obvious where we went wrong in 2019. It starts with our forward and and inability to kick goals..

I watch a lot of footy, and I'm sometimes memorized at the ease in which some teams can have so many options up forward, and kick goes with relative ease. Whether that's from a simple hit up lead pass inside forward 50, out the back running goal, a simple crumb from a stoppage or a dropped mark. With Melbourne, it seems like 90% of our goals come from luck and hard work. This comes down to having hardly any avenue towards goal.

In 2018, we have been absolutely scarce of players where they can hit the scoreboard. We put all our eggs in the basket of Tom Macdonald and Weideman backing up their years of 2018 (which they haven't), in addition to the absence of Hogan, Melksham being injured and Petracca not finding form until recently, Garlett injured and also completely out of form, Spargo, Hannan, Brayshaw going backwards, (who would all kick goals last year) Fristch being forced to play in the backline for 95% of the season (who we finally have put forward and kicked goals) we have hardly had any players who can hit the scoreboard and make an impact. We've done with a makeshift forward line (Tim Smith, Petty, Lockhart, Wagner etc) for pretty much the entire season, with no continuity and chemistry. This has lead to things like leading patterns, creating space, blocking for others completely void. Which is why our forward 50 entries are so high, yet our conversion rate is so low. Simply because, we don't have the cattle on the park that knows how to hit the scoreboard.

And this all comes down to our recruiting department. Over the past 2 years, we invested heavily into building our defense, that we forgot about our forward line. To the point where we traded 2 x 1st rounders for an injury-riddled Lever & an injury-riddled May. Whilst other clubs are picking up rejects / recycled players (think Roughead / Dunn for Collingwood) have stayed on the park, contributed and have not cost them anything. Geelong did it very well over the off-season. They realised they need more goal kickers. What do they do? They draft guys like Miers, trade in Rohan and Dalhaus. Melbourne has done absolutely nothing the past 3 years, especially through free agency to inject some talent and x factor to our forward line.

We simply are starved for players who can kick goals, and it must be a huge necessity going forward in 2020.
Recruiting Lever and May hasn’t yielded the returns that we’d hoped for, but Lever’s knee was very s**t luck. May’s troubles are self inflicted but he was pretty durable at Gold Coast. I still think both can be very good players for the club.

All that said, you’ve raised excellent points about other clubs being able to acquire solid key defenders at bargain prices. I’m also wondering what was the point of recruiting Lever and May if we were still intent on playing a high forward press with a lack of two way running meaning that we just have nominally better defenders getting cricket scores kicked against because our structures suck. In 2012/13 we had an All Australian full back in Frawley and other capable defenders like Garland, Rivers and a young Tom McDonald watching the ball sail over their heads because of similar issues up the field. There’s also a slight irony in virtually giving up a heap in terms the draft and salary for KPDs when other clubs gave up sweet FA for Dunn, Frawley and Howe.

The point is, I don’t blame Lever and May, nor do I think we overpaid for them in terms of their ability as footballers. But if the club doesn’t set up good defensive structures to maximise the impact of Lever and May it will have been a great waste.
 

kane249

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That's true. But in the good old days, you could fast-track the talent coming in, especially through Priority Picks. Imagine West Coast without Shuey and Darling...
Pick 26 Jack Darling
Pick 18 Luke Shuey

It's not like we grabbed either with a top 3 pick considering the number of chances others had to grab them. "Priority" and getting it at pick 26 seems more like an oxymoron.
 

WilloTree

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Pick 26 Jack Darling
Pick 18 Luke Shuey

It's not like we grabbed either with a top 3 pick considering the number of chances others had to grab them. "Priority" and getting it at pick 26 seems more like an oxymoron.
Don't be obtuse. Why are you trying to start a sh*t-fight? They were Priority Picks and Priority Picks don't exist anymore. That's all the point is. You don't need to fall off a cliff just because someone mentions your team.
 

Jiggyman

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Don't be obtuse. Why are you trying to start a sh*t-fight? They were Priority Picks and Priority Picks don't exist anymore. That's all the point is. You don't need to fall off a cliff just because someone mentions your team.
Chill. Your argument just isn't particularly strong.
 

WilloTree

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Seperate subject but the draft should change. Teams who miss finals 2 years in a row should double up on picks until they get back. Bad teams need to be able to build quicker. Having 2 picks before 40 isn't enough
Maybe. I think one of the problems was that poor teams before the expansion teams/FA Comp etc have their third pick around Pick 32. Round 3 didn't start last year until Pick 44, It's a pretty big difference.
Chill. Your argument just isn't particularly strong.
Shuey and Darling were Priority Picks. Automatic Priority Picks don't exist anymore. Under current rules, West Coast wouldn't have Shuey and Darling.

Which part don't you see as "particularly strong"? The indisputable fact about changes to the Priority Picks or the indisputable fact regarding which players were taken as Priority Picks?

The famous Eagles logic returns... Stink up a thread with nothing at all to do with the topic, start a sh*t fight, embarrass themselves, rinse - repeat.

It's so boring and predictable.
 
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Jiggyman

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Maybe. I think one of the problems was that poor teams before the expansion teams/FA Comp etc have their third pick around Pick 32. Round 3 didn't start last year until Pick 44, It's a p

Shuey and Darling were Priority Picks. Priority Picks don't exist anymore. Under current rules, West Coast wouldn't have Shuey and Darling.

Which part don't you see as "particularly strong"? The indisputable fact about changes to the Priority Picks or the indisputable fact regarding which players were taken as Priority Picks?

The famous Eagles logic returns... Stink up a thread with nothing at all to do with the topic, start a sh*t fight, embarrass themselves, rinse - repeat.

It's so boring and predictable.
It's not particularly strong because you are making an affirmation that receiving bonus 2nd-round picks produces a premiership. It's a shallow analysis.
 

WilloTree

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It's not particularly strong because you are making an affirmation that receiving bonus 2nd-round picks produces a premiership. It's a shallow analysis.
What? I never even mentioned a Premiership!

...and there it is. Exhibit A ladies and Gentlemen.

Now rinse - repeat.
 

kane249

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Don't be obtuse. Why are you trying to start a sh*t-fight? They were Priority Picks and Priority Picks don't exist anymore. That's all the point is. You don't need to fall off a cliff just because someone mentions your team.
You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet today. Compare the old priority pick situation prior:

Year Pick Player Club
1997 1 Travis Johnstone Melbourne
1999 1 Josh Fraser Collingwood
1999 2 Paul Hasleby Fremantle
2000 1 Nick Riewoldt St Kilda
2001 1 Luke Hodge Hawthorn, pick traded from Fremantle
2001 2 Luke Ball St Kilda
2001 3 Chris Judd West Coast
2003 1 Adam Cooney Western Bulldogs
2003 2 Andrew Walker Carlton
2003 3 Colin Sylvia Melbourne
2004 1 Brett Deledio Richmond
2004 2 Jarryd Roughead Hawthorn
2004 3 Ryan Griffen Western Bulldogs
2005 1 Marc Murphy Carlton
2005 2 Dale Thomas Collingwood
2005 3 Xavier Ellis Hawthorn
2007 1 Matthew Kreuzer Carlton
2009 1 Tom Scully Melbourne

By comparison picks 18 and 26 are not really comparable give then cream the picks above had access to. We lucked out choosing who we did, but drafting is never an exact science especially the lower you go.
 

Elmer_Judd

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You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet today. Compare the old priority pick situation prior:

Year Pick Player Club
1997 1 Travis Johnstone Melbourne
1999 1 Josh Fraser Collingwood
1999 2 Paul Hasleby Fremantle
2000 1 Nick Riewoldt St Kilda
2001 1 Luke Hodge Hawthorn, pick traded from Fremantle
2001 2 Luke Ball St Kilda
2001 3 Chris Judd West Coast
2003 1 Adam Cooney Western Bulldogs
2003 2 Andrew Walker Carlton
2003 3 Colin Sylvia Melbourne
2004 1 Brett Deledio Richmond
2004 2 Jarryd Roughead Hawthorn
2004 3 Ryan Griffen Western Bulldogs
2005 1 Marc Murphy Carlton
2005 2 Dale Thomas Collingwood
2005 3 Xavier Ellis Hawthorn
2007 1 Matthew Kreuzer Carlton
2009 1 Tom Scully Melbourne

By comparison picks 18 and 26 are not really comparable give then cream the picks above had access to. We lucked out choosing who we did, but drafting is never an exact science especially the lower you go.
Difference between Freo and The Eagles over the years is WCW's ability to recruit and develop players with later round draft picks.

For instance, can't remember when Freo managed to develop an AA-esque player play with a pick in the 40s like The Eagles have with Tom Barrass.

Felt for a long time that it's the 2nd and later round picks clubs can pick and develop which turns a team into contenders (Geelong, West Coast and Richmond have been superb at this over the years)

Once Freo have gotten that aspect of their club a s recruiting dept in order, they will be fine.
 

kane249

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Difference between Freo and The Eagles over the years is WCW's ability to recruit and develop players with later round draft picks.

For instance, can't remember when Freo managed to develop an AA-esque player play with a pick in the 40s like The Eagles have with Tom Barrass.

Felt for a long time that it's the 2nd and later round picks clubs can pick and develop which turns a team into contenders (Geelong, West Coast and Richmond have been superb at this over the years)

Once Freo have gotten that aspect of their club a s recruiting dept in order, they will be fine.
WCW? We aren't a defunct wrestling company :p

We picked Tom Swift 2 picks after Luke Shuey in the same draft, sometimes it is as simple as managing to luck out with your selection
 

WilloTree

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Difference between Freo and The Eagles over the years is WCW's ability to recruit and develop players with later round draft picks.

For instance, can't remember when Freo managed to develop an AA-esque player play with a pick in the 40s like The Eagles have with Tom Barrass.

Felt for a long time that it's the 2nd and later round picks clubs can pick and develop which turns a team into contenders (Geelong, West Coast and Richmond have been superb at this over the years)

Once Freo have gotten that aspect of their club a s recruiting dept in order, they will be fine.
Current players Freo have developed after pick 40:
Sandliands: Pick 33 Rookie Draft
Walters: Pick 58
Neale: Pick 58
Ryan: Pick
Langdon: Pick 54
Sutcliffe: Pick 77
DeLuca: Pick 68
Taberner: Pick 11 Rookie Draft

Freo actually have the opposite problem. Burning 1st Rounders is a hobby.
 

WCE Wizard

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They have a dysfunctional forward line and a midfield with all grunt but lacks the outside run and class of a Bont, Tim Kelly, Luke Shuey etc
 

Corkintheocean

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Genuinely would love to know why you dislike Melbourne so much. I mean, everyone has sides/clubs they don't like - but I generally find that most people either don't care about us, dismiss us or feel bad for how inept we are - but not a whole lot of hate (and I could be wrong about that too).

So genuine question - what make's you dislike Melbourne so much?
Todd Viney/Chris Lewis would be one reason.

Gary Lyon another.
 

dylan93

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We're just cooked atm, simple as that.

Injuries and surgeries during the 18/19 offseason have cost us dearly. We've been missing quite a few important cogs to our team, and the ones we do have aren't at full fitness. Not to mention, players like Gus Brayshaw playing out of position (and yet the media scrutinise him for low numbers without even watching a game to find out the reason).

What we have learnt though is we are severely lacking in quality of our depth/fringe players. So I wouldn't be surprised if 8-10 okayers get the chop and we look into drafting some more state league players/youngsters as well as attracting some players on the outer at other clubs/free agents.

Will come back bigger and better than ever next year and jump back in the top 4/6 mix.
 

Juzzk1d

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They have a dysfunctional forward line and a midfield with all grunt but lacks the outside run and class of a Bont, Tim Kelly, Luke Shuey etc
Exactly this. Like I said before. Dysfunctional makeshift forward line, partner that with inside midfield grunt who get sucked in at every contest with zero outside leg speed and class.
 

harrythetiger

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This year clearly the blip, suggesting last year was is wishful thinking. They had a fairly steady improvement under Roos then Goodwin, arguably overperformed in 2018 but also underperformed a bit in 2017. The fact is this stuff isn’t linear, especially once you start contending for finals. Look at Richmond between 2013 and 2017.
 

Juddernaut08

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Current players Freo have developed after pick 40:
Sandliands: Pick 33 Rookie Draft
Walters: Pick 58
Neale: Pick 58
Ryan: Pick
Langdon: Pick 54
Sutcliffe: Pick 77
DeLuca: Pick 68
Taberner: Pick 11 Rookie Draft

Freo actually have the opposite problem. Burning 1st Rounders is a hobby.
Yup thought of Walters straight away.
 

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