Whats in a name? Australian Football v Australian football

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Bjo187

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Speaking of soccer and i'm actually a soccer fan myself to a degree, but something i have noticed recently is they are advertising it as 'australian football' now. I'm like hang on, australian football is our sport. This whole thing they should be called football is hilarious. It's soccer here and in america and every other country where it isn't the main code.
 

Gigantor

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Speaking of soccer and i'm actually a soccer fan myself to a degree, but something i have noticed recently is they are advertising it as 'australian football' now. I'm like hang on, australian football is our sport. This whole thing they should be called football is hilarious. It's soccer here and in america and every other country where it isn't the main code.
This push goes all the way back to Lowy and the demise of Soccer Australia.
The whole Australian Football thing is going to get pushed more and more.
If it helps alienate potential dual code fans in the Southern states, it can only be a good thing for the AFL, but they need to be careful about constantly trying to brand the game as AFL, rather than using its correct name: Australian Football.
 

NoobPie

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Speaking of soccer and i'm actually a soccer fan myself to a degree, but something i have noticed recently is they are advertising it as 'australian football' now. I'm like hang on, australian football is our sport. This whole thing they should be called football is hilarious. It's soccer here and in america and every other country where it isn't the main code.

This is the thing, for the life of me I cannot understand how anyone can be shocked that there might be an adverse response to the use of the term "Australian Football" to describe Australian soccer. Imagine if the they tried that on in the US? Would that make US NFL fans particularly insecure or is it just a natural response to overt identity theft?

This is the big problem with Australian soccer that Fujak approached but didn't get to. It has the single white female thing with Australian football that means it can never be comfortable with what it is. Fujak touched on the curse of the "sleeping giant" myth but the persecution complex and obsession with the AFL's imagined role in it is far more debilitating and Fujak essentially validated it (perhaps to get it published).
 

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BobbyMorri

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well, this seems like another code war. "soccer persecution myth". Source for that from an official person......

not a shock who started it. is it that hard to be nice Noob.
 

Cmarsh

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Speaking of soccer and i'm actually a soccer fan myself to a degree, but something i have noticed recently is they are advertising it as 'australian football' now. I'm like hang on, australian football is our sport. This whole thing they should be called football is hilarious. It's soccer here and in america and every other country where it isn't the main code.
Mixed messaging when they still call the national team the socceroos.
 

NoobPie

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well, this seems like another code war. "soccer persecution myth". Source for that from an official person......

not a shock who started it. is it that hard to be nice Noob.

We are literally discussing a book called "code wars" (because somebody other than me brought it up) that discusses the role of the AFL (and its media) has had in deliberately and egregiously persecuting Australian soccer.

Fujak set out how the "sleeping giant' myth was detrimental to Australian soccer.....in my opinion, he validated the more debilitating myth - that Australian soccer has been persecuted and suppressed and this is the reason its fantasies haven't been realised

Anyway, if you think there is something wrong with my posts here just report me like you usually do. Spare me your obsessive personal attacks at me and your reflexive sensitivity to anything remotely negative towards soccer. I'm not interested
 
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Kwality

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This push goes all the way back to Lowy and the demise of Soccer Australia.
The whole Australian Football thing is going to get pushed more and more.
If it helps alienate potential dual code fans in the Southern states, it can only be a good thing for the AFL, but they need to be careful about constantly trying to brand the game as AFL, rather than using its correct name: Australian Football.
Our game is Aussie Rules, not Australian football imho.
 

Gigantor

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Our game is Aussie Rules, not Australian football imho.
Our rule book is called "Laws of Australian Football", and has been for a very long time now. The parallels being: Gaelic Football, Canadian Football, American Football, Association Football, etc.
Aussie rules was always just part of the vernacular, but obviously that has never been the official name of the game.
 

SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
This push goes all the way back to Lowy and the demise of Soccer Australia.
The whole Australian Football thing is going to get pushed more and more.
If it helps alienate potential dual code fans in the Southern states, it can only be a good thing for the AFL, but they need to be careful about constantly trying to brand the game as AFL, rather than using its correct name: Australian Football.
Hunter Fujak's “Code Wars” book, which brought me here, is really big on some of the near-fatal missteps that the various codes have made in their quest for market dominance, but he's strangely silent on this one.

To my mind, arrogantly telling everyone else that from now on, only soccer could call itself "football" was a gigantic mistake. Way to go to create bad blood. To my eyes, they seem to have retreated somewhat from that policy in recent years and I think not before time. Stupid idea.

In a unique four-code marketplace where you're far from dominating enough to be able to call the shots, you need to hang on to every point of difference you can. Calling the code "soccer" is one such point of difference.
 

NoobPie

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Our rule book is called "Laws of Australian Football", and has been for a very long time now. The parallels being: Gaelic Football, Canadian Football, American Football, Association Football, etc.
Aussie rules was always just part of the vernacular, but obviously that has never been the official name of the game.
That's right. It's not really a matter of opinion so much as a matter of personal choice
 

Kwality

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Hunter Fujak's “Code Wars” book, which brought me here, is really big on some of the near-fatal missteps that the various codes have made in their quest for market dominance, but he's strangely silent on this one.

To my mind, arrogantly telling everyone else that from now on, only soccer could call itself "football" was a gigantic mistake. Way to go to create bad blood. To my eyes, they seem to have retreated somewhat from that policy in recent years and I think not before time. Stupid idea.

In a unique four-code marketplace where you're far from dominating enough to be able to call the shots, you need to hang on to every point of difference you can. Calling the code "soccer" is one such point of difference.
The actual story of who/when decided to rename the codes & why the sports went along with it, is a story in itself.
 

Kwality

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Our rule book is called "Laws of Australian Football", and has been for a very long time now. The parallels being: Gaelic Football, Canadian Football, American Football, Association Football, etc.
Aussie rules was always just part of the vernacular, but obviously that has never been the official name of the game.
.


Do tell...
I cant tell you when it happened.There must be a back story.
 

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Gigantor

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Quote in the Talk from the very same article:

I was recently on the AFL website and they state "Whether it is called Australian Football, Australian Rules Football, "Aussie Rules", the VFL, the AFL, Australia's only indigenous football code is officially entitled 'Australian football'. It has never been officially referred to as 'Australian rules football'. Such terminology has only ever appeared in the form of football journalism, coined by different writers.
 

Gigantor

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Another quote in the Talk section:

FFS, the official name of the sport is Australian Football, therefore that should be the name of the article and Australian Rules Football (which is an informal name) should redirect to it.
 

NoobPie

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Kwality

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But you said it was a "story in itself"? Now you are saying there must be one

Is it possible you've accepted bullshit as fact at some point and so can't provide any links (apart to bullshit)?
A 'back story' as in how it came to be .... football/soccer/footy ... last week at the Austin F1 Grand Prix a driver referred to the local version of football in an interview for an international audience & the reference drew a high five from an American commentator. To confusing ?
 

NoobPie

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A 'back story' as in how it came to be .... football/soccer/footy ... last week at the Austin F1 Grand Prix a driver referred to the local version of football in an interview for an international audience & the reference drew a high five from an American commentator. To confusing ?
What? You said this implying knowledge of some story....

The actual story of who/when decided to rename the codes & why the sports went along with it, is a story in itself.
You were then asked to "do tell"

and you back pedalled to

[URL

I cant tell you when it happened.There must be a back story.
And now you apparently can't even provide a link to support the "when". Instead you've provided a gibberish anecdote about an American grand prix

Surely you can provide some basic information that others can look in to to validate?
 

The_Wookie

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The actual story of who/when decided to rename the codes & why the sports went along with it, is a story in itself.
It was originally published as the Laws of Australian football but was often referred to as Melbourne Rules is referred to all over the place in the media through the late 19th and early 20th centuries. At other times reported as the Australian or Victorian game.

ANFC decided to try and rebrand the game in 1958 apparently - In 1958, the Australian National Football Council sought to officially rename "Australian Rules Football" to make it more accessible, "Mark" was the outright winner of the "Rename The Game" newspaper poll, with "Rules" and "Footy" being the other popular choices.[18] Despite the poll, a name change was not initiated. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Australian_rules_football)

Most recently. The only people who decided to change things were soccer types just before the launch of the A-league. The Australian Soccer Association officially announced its rebrand in December 2004. ASA chairman Frank Lowy said the symbolic move would bring Australia into line with the vast majority of other countries which call the sport football.


And no one officially cared. Plenty of code warriors did though.
 

Kwality

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It was originally published as the Laws of Australian football but was often referred to as Melbourne Rules is referred to all over the place in the media through the late 19th and early 20th centuries. At other times reported as the Australian or Victorian game.

ANFC decided to try and rebrand the game in 1958 apparently - In 1958, the Australian National Football Council sought to officially rename "Australian Rules Football" to make it more accessible, "Mark" was the outright winner of the "Rename The Game" newspaper poll, with "Rules" and "Footy" being the other popular choices.[18] Despite the poll, a name change was not initiated. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Australian_rules_football)

Most recently. The only people who decided to change things were soccer types just before the launch of the A-league. The Australian Soccer Association officially announced its rebrand in December 2004. ASA chairman Frank Lowy said the symbolic move would bring Australia into line with the vast majority of other countries which call the sport football.


And no one officially cared. Plenty of code warriors did though.
Its why the media went along with it that is the interesting bit - my recollection is similar to yours, of a win by the Socceroos v Iran or Irag & the David Hill who isnt the guy of World Series Cricket fame.
I've always believed our game should 'own' footy as the term that identifies it from the rest.
 

SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
the symbolic move would bring Australia into line with the vast majority of other countries which call the sport football. And no one officially cared. Plenty of code warriors did though.
I certainly cared. Not sure how you define “code warrior” but a lot of us were really unimpressed that a bunch of people unilaterally announced that a word which has very subtle and nuanced meanings in Australian English (with a history going back a century and a half) was suddenly going to mean just one thing. A lot of people rightly told them to GaGF. Huge misstep by soccer’s admin.

I don’t know how you quantify such things, but I personally have no doubt there would have been a lot more goodwill extended to the A-League when it first came into being, if they hadn’t pulled that stunt.
 

The_Wookie

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I certainly cared. Not sure how you define “code warrior” but a lot of us were really unimpressed that a bunch of people unilaterally announced that a word which has very subtle and nuanced meanings in Australian English (with a history going back a century and a half) was suddenly going to mean just one thing. A lot of people rightly told them to GaGF. Huge misstep by soccer’s admin.
Code Warriors - people who believe in the superiority and righteousness of their chosen sport and who believe they are entitled to things they arent - like the name of the game for instance. Soccer didnt decide that football only meant one thing, they decided that their games name in Australia should fall in line with what is probaly the name of the most popular game in the world, english or not.

At which point the differentiation is between whether its the game of Australian Football, or the game of Football in Australia.

I don’t know how you quantify such things, but I personally have no doubt there would have been a lot more goodwill extended to the A-League when it first came into being, if they hadn’t pulled that stunt.
I pretty much figure that its people over-reacting to a simple name change that didnt otherwise alter anything in the Australian sporting landscape and most of whom have no goodwill for soccer, whatever it calls itself.

I didnt particularly care either way, i thought it was a mistake for soccer to do so at the time from a business perspective, and still do, given we have 4 codes of football here that are high profile (AFL, Soccer, Union and league) as well as other lower profile variants (Grid Iron, Gaelic).
 
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