Whats in a name? Australian Football v Australian football

[Kwality]

Code Warriors - people who believe in the superiority and righteousness of their chosen sport and who believe they are entitled to things they arent - like the name of the game for instance. Soccer didnt decide that football only meant one thing, they decided that their games name in Australia should fall in line with what is probaly the name of the most popular game in the world, english or not.

At which point the differentiation is between whether its the game of Australian Football, or the game of Football in Australia.



I pretty much figure that its people over-reacting to a simple name change that didnt otherwise alter anything in the Australian sporting landscape and most of whom have no goodwill for soccer, whatever it calls itself.

I didnt particularly care either way, i thought it was a mistake for soccer to do so at the time from a business perspective, and still do, given we have 4 codes of football here that are high profile (AFL, Soccer, Union and league) as well as other lower profile variants (Grid Iron, Gaelic).

& the same in the US ...

 

[The_Wookie]

& the same in the US ...

In the US, it is still very much soccer, as expressed by both the names of the US Soccer Federation and Major League Soccer.

Football in the US is very much the NFL, and theres just no competing with that in America.

 

[Bjo187]

That's because soccer in America knows it's place, clearly here it doesn't as it's the third string football code in the country so needs to get in line.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Code Warriors - people who believe in the superiority and righteousness of their chosen sport and who believe they are entitled to things they arent - like the name of the game for instance.

This is ridiculous. We are entitled to the name of our game. We were using the word to describe our game many decades before soccer even existed in Australia. In fact before soccer even existed as an organised sport anywhere. The MFC predates any soccer club anywhere in the world.

In Australia we speak our own variant of the English language. No-one has any right to unilaterally order a people to stop speaking the way they speak.

I'm not a code warrior but clearly I'm an Australian English warrior. What Australian wouldn't believe in preserving the integrity of the distinctive way we speak?

"Football" in Australian English has many meanings. It is an umbrella term for the various codes, it is the name all aficionados of the respective codes are welcome to use when discussing their preferred code with each other, and it is embedded in the official name of the indigenous code.

What it's not, in Australian English, is the exclusive preserve of just one of those codes, particularly when it is arrogated by them without any consultation.

they decided that their games name in Australia should fall in line with what is probaly the name of the most popular game in the world, english or not.

A billionaire decided what words we were going to have to give up for his (now sputtering) master plan? Eff that.

(And it's a flawed argument anyway. The US - third biggest nation in the world, and the most powerful - Canada, Ireland, South Africa, New Zealand, definitely don't call it "football".)

I pretty much figure that its people over-reacting to a simple name change that didnt otherwise alter anything in the Australian sporting landscape and most of whom have no goodwill for soccer, whatever it calls itself.

I didnt particularly care either way, i thought it was a mistake for soccer to do so at the time from a business perspective, and still do, given we have 4 codes of football here that are high profile (AFL, Soccer, Union and league) as well as other lower profile variants (Grid Iron, Gaelic).

I think these two paragraphs contradict each other. You say it didn't alter anything yet you agree it was a mistake from a business perspective. Considering the billions of dollars at stake in the battle for market share, I can't see how that isn't altering anything.

 

[BobbyMorri]

This is ridiculous. We are entitled to the name of our game. We were using the word to describe our game many decades before soccer even existed in Australia. In fact before soccer even existed as an organised sport anywhere. The MFC predates any soccer club anywhere in the world.

In Australia we speak our own variant of the English language. No-one has any right to unilaterally order a people to stop speaking the way they speak.

I'm not a code warrior but clearly I'm an Australian English warrior. What Australian wouldn't believe in preserving the integrity of the distinctive way we speak?

"Football" in Australian English has many meanings. It is an umbrella term for the various codes, it is the name all aficionados of the respective codes are welcome to use when discussing their preferred code with each other, and it is embedded in the official name of the indigenous code.

What it's not, in Australian English, is the exclusive preserve of just one of those codes, particularly when it is arrogated by them without any consultation.

A billionaire decided what words we were going to have to give up for his (now sputtering) master plan? Eff that.

You can call soccer whatever you like, as long as it is not offensive. no one is forcing you to say soccer is football.

Soccer changed its name as part of a rebrand. as the saying went "old soccer, New football". this was to symbolise that the game was moving forward from ethnic divisions, decades of mismanagement and failure. to be in line with what the rest of the world called it. that's it. They didn't do it as a claim or a boast. They would like to be called football, sure. But any non-code warrior soccer fan uses what will be understood more easily to the audience they are speaking to.

(And it's a flawed argument anyway. The US - third biggest nation in the world, and the most powerful - Canada, Ireland, South Africa, New Zealand, definitely don't call it "football".)

well, Ireland football Association(Northern Ireland)/Football Association of Ireland, New Zealand Football Federation, South African Football Association says differently. Yes, soccer is short for Association but your point doesn't stand much ground. Only Canada and the US have soccer in the name of the federation of major countries.

What they say in normal conversation and what the governing body is called can be completely different and not cause the end of the world.

I think these two paragraphs contradict each other. You say it didn't alter anything yet you agree it was a mistake from a business perspective. Considering the billions of dollars at stake in the battle for market share, I can't see how that isn't altering anything.

See rebrand sentence above.

 

[The_Wookie]

This is ridiculous. We are entitled to the name of our game. We were using the word to describe our game many decades before soccer even existed in Australia. In fact before soccer even existed as an organised sport anywhere. The MFC predates any soccer club anywhere in the world.

Football games existed before codification of the Australian game too. Numerous media reports of it prior to 1858 on trove alone - and they werent australian in origin

In Australia we speak our own variant of the English language.

We did not invent the term football.

No-one has any right to unilaterally order a people to stop speaking the way they speak.

And no one did. Not a single person did.

I'm not a code warrior but clearly I'm an Australian English warrior.

Every sentence you've written here disagrees.

What Australian wouldn't believe in preserving the integrity of the distinctive way we speak?

Theres nothing distinctive about calling something football, as witnessed by the many types of football around the world.

"Football" in Australian English has many meanings. It is an umbrella term for the various codes, it is the name all aficionados of the respective codes are welcome to use when discussing their preferred code with each other, and it is embedded in the official name of the indigenous code.

What it's not, in Australian English, is the exclusive preserve of just one of those codes, particularly when it is arrogated by them without any consultation.

They dont have to consult anyone on the use of a term used to describe their sport by half the damn planet.

The game was called football in other countries - by vastly more people, including people in this country - well before it was officially redbadged

A billionaire decided what words we were going to have to give up for his (now sputtering) master plan? Eff that.

That did not happen except in paranoid minds. He literally decided to rebadge his own competition, and bring it in line with almost every other association football competition in the world. This didnt prevent anyone else using the term.

(And it's a flawed argument anyway. The US - third biggest nation in the world, and the most powerful - Canada, Ireland, South Africa, New Zealand, definitely don't call it "football".)

This is also an irrelevant argument.

I think these two paragraphs contradict each other. You say it didn't alter anything yet you agree it was a mistake from a business perspective. Considering the billions of dollars at stake in the battle for market share, I can't see how that isn't altering anything.

sigh. they dont contradict each other. It literally changed nothing any more than renaming the VFL to the AFL did in 1991. It was a literally name change of the governing body. When i said it was a mistake from the business perspective in my opinion, I meant in terms of possible brand confusion, not because it took on some paranoid mythological exclusion to all others.

 

[NoobPie]

The great irony is the "DONT" CALL IT SOCCER IT'S CALLED FOOTBALLl" movement originates from a deep english cultural insecurity. The word soccer, which derived from England, was still in broad use in the UK until the 80s and it started to become offensive

The idea that anyone for whom hearing the term "Australian football" describing Australian soccer is jarring to some degree can be dismissed as a "code warrior" is absurd.

Personally, I had an enormous good will towards soccer at the start of the A League and the 2006 world cup era. This good will turned into ambivalence precisely when I started hearing the term "Australian football" used for soccer and then obviously the profoundly disrespectful and opportunistic behavior around the soccer world cup bid. And then subsequently starting to read about how Australian football has conspired to persecute and suppress soccer for 800 hundred years and then in the next breath how insignificant my backyard code is, how people who support it are uncultured/ insular bogans etc....

Australian soccer can refer itself how it likes but likewise people who support Australian football, or even people with a bit of cultural self-respect, are also free to find it offensive or at least irritating when it calls itself "Australian football"

 

[NoobPie]

This is ridiculous. We are entitled to the name of our game. We were using the word to describe our game many decades before soccer even existed in Australia. In fact before soccer even existed as an organised sport anywhere. The MFC predates any soccer club anywhere in the world.

In Australia we speak our own variant of the English language. No-one has any right to unilaterally order a people to stop speaking the way they speak.

I'm not a code warrior but clearly I'm an Australian English warrior. What Australian wouldn't believe in preserving the integrity of the distinctive way we speak?

"Football" in Australian English has many meanings. It is an umbrella term for the various codes, it is the name all aficionados of the respective codes are welcome to use when discussing their preferred code with each other, and it is embedded in the official name of the indigenous code.

What it's not, in Australian English, is the exclusive preserve of just one of those codes, particularly when it is arrogated by them without any consultation.

A billionaire decided what words we were going to have to give up for his (now sputtering) master plan? Eff that.

(And it's a flawed argument anyway. The US - third biggest nation in the world, and the most powerful - Canada, Ireland, South Africa, New Zealand, definitely don't call it "football".)

I think these two paragraphs contradict each other. You say it didn't alter anything yet you agree it was a mistake from a business perspective. Considering the billions of dollars at stake in the battle for market share, I can't see how that isn't altering anything.

Lookout SBD you are going to find your posts get split into smaller and smaller components and an army of strawmen are constructed and torn down around each half sentence that was once part of a three-paragraph post

You can't beat tedium, alas

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

You can call soccer whatever you like, as long as it is not offensive. no one is forcing you to say soccer is football.

Soccer changed its name as part of a rebrand. as the saying went "old soccer, New football". this was to symbolise that the game was moving forward from ethnic divisions, decades of mismanagement and failure. to be in line with what the rest of the world called it. that's it. They didn't do it as a claim or a boast. They would like to be called football, sure. But any non-code warrior soccer fan uses what will be understood more easily to the audience they are speaking to.



well, Ireland football Association(Northern Ireland)/Football Association of Ireland, New Zealand Football Federation, South African Football Association says differently. Yes, soccer is short for Association but your point doesn't stand much ground. Only Canada and the US have soccer in the name of the federation of major countries.

What they say in normal conversation and what the governing body is called can be completely different and not cause the end of the world.


See rebrand sentence above.

Football games existed before codification of the Australian game too. Numerous media reports of it prior to 1858 on trove alone - and they werent australian in origin



We did not invent the term football.



And no one did. Not a single person did.



Every sentence you've written here disagrees.



Theres nothing distinctive about calling something football, as witnessed by the many types of football around the world.



They dont have to consult anyone on the use of a term used to describe their sport by half the damn planet.

The game was called football in other countries - by vastly more people, including people in this country - well before it was officially redbadged



That did not happen except in paranoid minds. He literally decided to rebadge his own competition, and bring it in line with almost every other association football competition in the world. This didnt prevent anyone else using the term.



This is also an irrelevant argument.



sigh. they dont contradict each other. It literally changed nothing any more than renaming the VFL to the AFL did in 1991. It was a literally name change of the governing body. When i said it was a mistake from the business perspective in my opinion, I meant in terms of possible brand confusion, not because it took on some paranoid mythological exclusion to all others.

I think both of you folk are dramatically underplaying the significance of the attempt to wrest ownership of the word by the soccer community. And Wookie, you have either very much misunderstood my point about the position of the word in Australian English, or deliberately misconstrued it, but I don't have time to address that in detail today.

I am not a "code warrior". One of the greatest things I love about Australia is our incredible range of senior professional football options, unmatched anywhere else in the world. Soccer's not my favourite code by a long shot, but I infinitely prefer it to rugby union, for example, and I bear the game no ill will.

But though I'm also not a you-beaut-Australia-Day-wave-the-flag joker either, I do have immense love for the way we speak our language here. It is part of me. I'm not sure if you were engaging much in online debate around the time soccer changed its name (and maybe all online discussing should be taken with a grain of salt) but from the soccer camp the amount of "well get used to it suckers, because we're taking over and there's nothing you can do about it” was just relentless at the time. And insisting that their game was to be called “football" in Australia was a big part of that.

Anyway to some extent they seem to have realised that was a big misfire, and have retreated to lick their wounds. Hopefully they’ll eventually realise the massive branding value of a unique word like “soccer" in the insanely competitive Australia sporting marketplace.

 

[The_Wookie]

I think both of you folk are dramatically underplaying the significance of the attempt to wrest ownership of the word by the soccer community.

you have dramaticaly invented somethng never said by anyone in official soccer.

And Wookie, you have either very much misunderstood my point about the position of the word in Australian English, or deliberately misconstrued it, but I don't have time to address that in detail today.

Perhaps you should. You bought it up, and I consider it to be an irrelevant point based on my understanding of what you wrote.

I am not a "code warrior". One of the greatest things I love about Australia is our incredible range of senior professional football options, unmatched anywhere else in the world. Soccer's not my favourite code by a long shot, but I infinitely prefer it to rugby union, for example, and I bear the game no ill will.

so just on this issue then.

But though I'm also not a you-beaut-Australia-Day-wave-the-flag joker either, I do have immense love for the way we speak our language here. It is part of me. I'm not sure if you were engaging much in online debate around the time soccer changed its name (and maybe all online discussing should be taken with a grain of salt) but from the soccer camp the amount of "well get used to it suckers, because we're taking over and there's nothing you can do about it” was just relentless at the time. And insisting that their game was to be called “football" in Australia was a big part of that.

i was very much around. my recollection was somewhat different, but thats ok.!

Anyway to some extent they seem to have realised that was a big misfire, and have retreated to lick their wounds. Hopefully they’ll eventually realise the massive branding value of a unique word like “soccer" in the insanely competitive Australia sporting marketplace.

When have they realised this exactly?

 

[The_Wookie]

Lookout SBD you are going to find your posts get split into smaller and smaller components and an army of strawmen are constructed and torn down around each half sentence that was once part of a three-paragraph post

Yes god forbid we should know how to use the quote functions in the forum.

You can't beat tedium, alas

You dont have to post here.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

you have dramaticaly invented somethng never said by anyone in official soccer.

I reckon if you dig around you'll find there was plenty of intent to wrest control of the word.

Perhaps you should. You bought it up, and I consider it to be an irrelevant point based on my understanding of what you wrote.

Yes. All of your response was predicated on a quite erroneous assumption that I was insisting that we invented the term football, and that only we had exclusive right to it. I never said anything of the sort, only that no-one had any right to try to take away the manifold subtle ways we use the term, which, as I said, go back in Australian English pretty much as far as the term itself goes back anywhere.

You also have this strange notion that because one sense of a term is in common usage in "half of the rest of the world" we are under some obligation to fall in line with it, as if local variants of a language simply don't exist in your mind.

Also you seem unable, or unwilling, to any relationship between culture and commerce. Like just because Australian soccer starts officially calling itself “football", that exists in some sort of vacuum?

This is very strange. The verbs to "friend" or to "unfriend" entered the language solely as a result of Facebook's existence. Australian soccer calls itself “football”, many media outlets play along (the ABC, ever sensible, has never bought into it - they know a thing or two about how we in Australia use our English), and people start calling one code “football". People start insisting that their code is called "football". Amazed you haven't observed this happening.

so just on this issue then.

Yep, you go that right.

i was very much around. my recollection was somewhat different, but thats ok.!

Cool, play on. NoobPie above seemed to have some similar recollections to me.

When have they realised this exactly?

It’s been my observation that soccer types have been far less militant about the use of the term in recent years. In the media, Fairfax/Nine has certainly used it a lot less in recent years and started reverting to "soccer" quite a lot more. I think this is all tied to the fact that the A-League really hasn't grabbed the hearts and minds of Australians to the degree that it assured us it was going to.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Australian soccer starts officially calling itself “football", that exists in some sort of vacuum?

This is very strange. The verbs to "friend" or to "unfriend" entered the language solely as a result of Facebook's existence. Australian soccer calls itself “football”, many media outlets play along (the ABC, ever sensible, has never bought into it - they know a thing or two about how we in Australia use our English), and people start calling one code “football". People start insisting that their code is called "football". Amazed you haven't observed this happening.

huh

Football

Sport news, live scores, features, analysis and photos from the world of sport. Comprehensive coverage of AFL, cricket, football, rugby league and rugby union. Audio interviews. News stories and highlights in video. Sports news bulletin.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

huh

Football

Sport news, live scores, features, analysis and photos from the world of sport. Comprehensive coverage of AFL, cricket, football, rugby league and rugby union. Audio interviews. News stories and highlights in video. Sports news bulletin.

www.abc.net.au

That surprises me. Certainly on ABC radio sport, that is not the case at all.

 

[The_Wookie]

I reckon if you dig around you'll find there was plenty of intent to wrest control of the word.

I have dug around. Theres not a hell of a lot to support that.

Yes. All of your response was predicated on a quite erroneous assumption that I was insisting that we invented the term football,

Thats not what my response was predicated on at all. Its based on the assumption that you think our usage of the term differs from the rest of the planet.

and that only we had exclusive right to it. I never said anything of the sort, only that no-one had any right to try to take away the manifold subtle ways we use the term, which, as I said, go back in Australian English pretty much as far as the term itself goes back anywhere.

one of those manifold ways we used it was to call soccer football. This wasnt a new thing - the terms have been interchangeable in the Australian vernacular for a hundred+ years.

You also have this strange notion that because one sense of a term is in common usage in "half of the rest of the world" we are under some obligation to fall in line with it, as if local variants of a language simply don't exist in your mind.

You have this strange notion that no one referred to soccer as football prior to 2004 for some reason. Thats flatly untrue. That it is better known as football to most of the planet also cant simply be ignored.

Also you seem unable, or unwilling, to any relationship between culture and commerce. Like just because Australian soccer starts officially calling itself “football", that exists in some sort of vacuum?

Australian soccer officially changed its name and references from 2004. It didnt mean they didnt think or refer to themselves as football before that.

This is very strange. The verbs to "friend" or to "unfriend" entered the language solely as a result of Facebook's existence. Australian soccer calls itself “football”, many media outlets play along (the ABC, ever sensible, has never bought into it - they know a thing or two about how we in Australia use our English), and people start calling one code “football". People start insisting that their code is called "football". Amazed you haven't observed this happening.

Ive observed that soccer has been interchangeable with football in Austalia for decades. Not just out of thin air in 2004. People were insisting on it long before the governing body came along and decided to market it.

 

[cfc to aufc]

most of the world understands when the word football is used

 

[NoobPie]

most of the world understands when the word football is used

Good for the rest of the world. What the fck does that have to do with how the word is used in Australia?

But just to qualify your claim:
-in by far the biggest english speaking country (football is an enlish word) football refers to a different sport
-in many languages, including Italian, an etymologically different word is used

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

most of the world understands when the word football is used

And most of the world doesn't understand that things are different in Australia.

 

[Gigantor]

And when you see how hopeless the rest of the world has been with COVID, thank god we do things differently in Australia!

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I have dug around. Theres not a hell of a lot to support that.



Thats not what my response was predicated on at all. Its based on the assumption that you think our usage of the term differs from the rest of the planet.



one of those manifold ways we used it was to call soccer football. This wasnt a new thing - the terms have been interchangeable in the Australian vernacular for a hundred+ years.



You have this strange notion that no one referred to soccer as football prior to 2004 for some reason. Thats flatly untrue. That it is better known as football to most of the planet also cant simply be ignored.



Australian soccer officially changed its name and references from 2004. It didnt mean they didnt think or refer to themselves as football before that.



Ive observed that soccer has been interchangeable with football in Austalia for decades. Not just out of thin air in 2004. People were insisting on it long before the governing body came along and decided to market it.

You are repeatedly misinterpreting my points.

Pretty simple:

"Football" in Australian English has many meanings.

Above all, it is an umbrella term for the various codes. As would be expected, this is a reflection of the fact that our history of four different major professional football codes is quite unique in the world.

It is the name all aficionados of the respective codes are welcome to use when discussing their preferred code with each other.

It is embedded in the official name of the indigenous code, though that implies no right of we followers of Aussie Rules to insist no-one else has the right to use it. Note the official name of our game is not "Football", it is qualified: "Australian Football".

It makes sense, and is common courtesy, when discussing outside of the narrow confines of one's like-minded followers, to use the distinctive identifiers of each code: eg (but not limited to) Aussie Rules, rugby, rugby league, soccer.

What it's not, in Australian English, is the exclusive preserve of just one of those codes, particularly when it is arrogated by them without any consultation.

 

[BobbyMorri]

You are repeatedly misinterpreting my points.

Pretty simple:

"Football" in Australian English has many meanings.

Above all, it is an umbrella term for the various codes. As would be expected, this is a reflection of the fact that our history of four different major professional football codes is quite unique in the world.

It is the name all aficionados of the respective codes are welcome to use when discussing their preferred code with each other.

It is embedded in the official name of the indigenous code, though that implies no right of we followers of Aussie Rules to insist no-one else has the right to use it. Note the official name of our game is not "Football", it is qualified: "Australian Football".

It makes sense, and is common courtesy, when discussing outside of the narrow confines of one's like-minded followers, to use the distinctive identifiers of each code: eg (but not limited to) Aussie Rules, rugby, rugby league, soccer.

What it's not, in Australian English, is the exclusive preserve of just one of those codes, particularly when it is arrogated by them without any consultation.

you are seeing something which isn't there.

My local Australian Rules football leagues are all called NWFA, SFL, NTFA. Nowhere does any of those leagues say Australian Football or (thank god) AFL . Just football League or football Association.

Is soccer offended by this...no, they don't care. They don't own the term football and they are all football leagues just like you said. What you are implying is that they are offended by this and are about to file legal notices' or that changing the name of soccer to football had something to do with ownership of the title or had anything to do with AFL. It didn't and they don't. they would like to be called football, which is the official name of the sport of soccer.(see FIFA or FA Cup). That's basically it.

That doesn't mean ownership. shock horror, the same word can mean 2 different things. Chips and Chips.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

you are seeing something which isn't there.

My local Australian Rules football leagues are all called NWFA, SFL, NTFA. Nowhere does any of those leagues say Australian Football or (thank god) AFL . Just football League or football Association.

Is soccer offended by this...no, they don't care. They don't own the term football and they are all football leagues just like you said. What you are implying is that they are offended by this and are about to file legal notices' or that changing the name of soccer to football had something to do with ownership of the title or had anything to do with AFL. It didn't and they don't. they would like to be called football, which is the official name of the sport of soccer.(see FIFA or FA Cup). That's basically it.

That doesn't mean ownership. shock horror, the same word can mean 2 different things. Chips and Chips.

Actually, soccer's official name is Association Football, is it not?

No I'm not implying anyone is "offended" by anything. And I'm not implying anyone is about to file legal notices...

yet.

If things had turned out differently, if the A-League had become the all-conquering juggernaut they told us it would be, sweeping all these parochial codes from its path... in short, if soccer rose to a position of dominance in Australia that it enjoys in some other countries, you don't think there'd be moves afoot to legally claim the name "football"?

(I mean, not like "Champagne" or "Burgundy" are any sort of precedent, eh. Try marketing a sparkling wine in Australia and calling it "champagne" and see how far you get. Yet only a couple of decades ago, doing that here was unremarkable.)

if you and the other poster can't see anything untoward when, in the only country in the world with four major football codes, one of them ups and announces "actually, we're football" then we're speaking different languages.

The mods hived this topic off onto a thread of its own, but that doesn't mean I'm interested in furthering the mutual incomprehension. Agree to disagree.

 

[The_Wookie]

You are repeatedly misinterpreting my points.

Am I now. Because your paragaph below pretty much is in line with everything ive said so far.

Pretty simple:

"Football" in Australian English has many meanings.

Above all, it is an umbrella term for the various codes. As would be expected, this is a reflection of the fact that our history of four different major professional football codes is quite unique in the world.

It is the name all aficionados of the respective codes are welcome to use when discussing their preferred code with each other.

It is embedded in the official name of the indigenous code, though that implies no right of we followers of Aussie Rules to insist no-one else has the right to use it. Note the official name of our game is not "Football", it is qualified: "Australian Football".

Its embedded in the code name for soccer too. Or did you miss the football part of Association Football.

It makes sense, and is common courtesy, when discussing outside of the narrow confines of one's like-minded followers, to use the distinctive identifiers of each code: eg (but not limited to) Aussie Rules, rugby, rugby league, soccer.

Its not a "common courtesy" at all. Its a preference you and others of your mind have, and one that no one has ever been obliged to follow. Football means different things to different people, they arent required to notify you of their preferred choice.

What it's not, in Australian English, is the exclusive preserve of just one of those codes, particularly when it is arrogated by them without any consultation.

NO ONE HAS CLAIMED OTHERWISE. The only people who flipped out about this were people on AFL based forums. No one else - not rugby leauge, not rugby union, nor any other code had an issue. Neither for that matter did AFL House, or the SANFL, the WAFL. This fight was almost solely fought by angry AFL fans.

 

[The_Wookie]

Actually, soccer's official name is Association Football, is it not?

No I'm not implying anyone is "offended" by anything. And I'm not implying anyone is about to file legal notices...

yet.

If things had turned out differently, if the A-League had become the all-conquering juggernaut they told us it would be, sweeping all these parochial codes from its path... in short, if soccer rose to a position of dominance in Australia that it enjoys in some other countries, you don't think there'd be moves afoot to legally claim the name "football"?

No. Its too generic a term to succeed - predates any codification by any football code in the world.

if you and the other poster can't see anything untoward when, in the only country in the world with four major football codes, one of them ups and announces "actually, we're football" then we're speaking different languages.

They did announce they were calling themselves football. They didnt say no one else was. Your inferring something that literally was never said or implied and havent shown anything that says otherwise in your numerous posts.

The mods hived this topic off onto a thread of its own, but that doesn't mean I'm interested in furthering the mutual incomprehension. Agree to disagree.

"The mods" was me as I didnt want the Non AFL thread derailed by this discussion.

 

[NoobPie]

Just to pick up the mood of the time, here is Simon Hill's "smell the fear" article from 16 years ago, very much focussed on Rugby League for whom the move into asia had somehow "really browned the trousers of the egg-ball scribblers"

Let's not pretend everything was sanguine between other codes back then

Australian soccer's obsession with Australian football as the primary persecutor is a recent phenomenon. Obvioulsy the world cup bid - expecting the AFL to hand over stadia in the middle of their season - is factor but I do wonder whether the single white female, collective paranoia has anything to do with the name change to football? Its focussed a rather fevered hive mind on to the sport that has what it can't have

..................................................................

Can you smell the fear?
Simon Hill (SBS - The World Game Presenter)

Can you? If you live in Sydney, you'll hardly be able to breathe for the pungent stench. The egg-ballers are starting to sweat - and the putrid odour of fear is enveloping the Harbour City in the only way it knows how...via the pages of the city's newspapers. In all my years in football, I've never witnessed such an intense,
vitriolic campaign against the game I - and millions of others - love with a passion.

It all started two weeks ago with an odious article written by a guy called Paul Kent in the Daily Telegraph. Entitled 'Dress for distress, hooligans with flare', Kent wrote a piece so drenched in fear and hatred - not just
of football but of the 'ethnics' - he almost drowned in his own invective. Now I don't know Paul Kent - I've never met him - but I have it on good authority that he is a Rugby League journalist. As he works for the Telegraph (owned by News Limited, which in turn owns the rights to the NRL), then it's a fair guess he's no great fan of our game.

Fair enough.

I'm no great fan of AFL - which is why I rarely touch upon it in opinion pieces, because I don't understand it and it's of no interest to me. The question then, is why are Kent and his like sticking the boot in? Well, the answer is clear. Rugby League in particular is feeling very uneasy about football's big year.

The A-League is just around the corner, Harry Kewell is about to play in a Champions League final, and the national team have another chance to qualify for the World Cup. But it's the move to Asia that has really browned the trousers of the egg-ball scribblers. They know full well the impact this could have on the other football codes...and League in particular.

Rugby League holds a unique position in Australian sport - it's neither a national code, nor a minor code. Due to it's stranglehold in Sydney and Brisbane it gains much more attention than it probably deserves. Ask people in Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne and Darwin about League, and they'll more than likely shrug their shoulders.

Australian Rules Football has long since outwitted it in terms of being the biggest spectator sport - and Rugby Union with it's Commonwealth...sorry, World Cup, is starting to make inroads in to its traditional territories
too.

It can ill afford another rival in its heartlands - and so, football, with local glamour club Sydney FC starting to grab some attention, gets its ritual kicking. Dwight Yorke, Pierre Littbarski, Anthony La Paglia - these are names known and respected worldwide, and the League scribes don't like it...not one little bit.

Kent's article was actually just the latest in a long line of
carefully-worded digs at the world game by the Telegraph. For months it has been running a campaign aimed at discrediting the sport.

Just to cite a few examples, we've had stories on how 'Soccer over 35'sgetting injured in Sunday league games are a drain on the health service' as well as 'How soccer gives you brain injuries by repeated heading of the
ball' through to the usual guff about 'ethnic' hooligans threatening totear the very fabric of Australian society apart...oh, and the quitefrankly bizarre resurrection of the Frank Farina-Andrew Orsatti story that allowed football lovers such as Mike Gibson to get involved.

These articles are very 'Rugby League' - a game where the only skills required are to be able to catch the ball, run with it and hit very hard.

And that's exactly what others have done. The Sydney Morning Herald - led by football hater in-chief Peter Fitzsimmons, (wonderfully irked by having to call the sport by its proper name under the Herald's new policy) - has grabbed the ball, run with it, and waded in with some gems of its own. Check out last weekend's offering by someone called Stephen Gibbs, who slammed the game using the usual stereotypes. I'll pick out a few quotes
for you from Gibbs's article, and you'll get the gist.

* 'I always thought it was a game for sissies' (sheilas - tick!)
* 'Anyone calling soccer football with an accent is probably certifiable'(wogs - tick!),
* 'Other football codes use athletic men and gorgeous women to promote their game' (NTTAWWTters - tick, and that's a full house!).

Johnny Warren will be turning in his grave - after years of fighting this prejudicial garbage, the title of his autobiography has been vindicated in one, painfully ill-informed piece. Anthony La Paglia comes in for a bit of stick during the piece too - which is strange, considering he is considered a bit of an Aussie hero. But it seems if he likes 'soccer' - then he reverts to being 'just another wog'.

Sad, very sad indeed.

Even The Australian wades in with some uninformed comments. A throwaway line it may have been in a column called 'Strewth' but it underlines the fact that the concept of a 'fair go' in this country still doesn't apply to our game. The paper sneers at the concept of the A-League striving for excellence when 'the Central Coast Mariners had to order a coach to take them by road to Adelaide for the Club World Championship Qualifying Final'. (This was before the switch to Gosford incidentally.)

Now, the article contains a half-truth. The Mariners most certainly DID order a coach...for the short trip to Sydney airport. Which I would have thought is perfectly normal for a team from the coast? It looks slightly different when you know the truth eh?

> The problem for football with this type of journalism is that it DOES
> impact on the general public - at a time when the sport is trying to make a
> transition from old to new. The League crowd know this - and they are
> trying everything in their power to keep the game small, ignoring the
> strident efforts made by FFA to rid the game of it's problems (yes, we know
> there are some), and the fact that many of their readers love the game.
>
> You want small? I'll give you small. This week's Braith Anasta situation
> highlighted League's problems perfectly. Coveted by the New South Wales
> Waratahs who can offer him Super 12 rugby (okay, trips to New Zealand and
> South Africa may not seem much, but it's a start) and a potentially
> meaningful international career, Anasta's club side responded with a mighty
> comeback.
>
> What could the Bulldogs give young Braith to tempt him to stay the
> reporters asked? The answer - continuity. Yup, that's all folks! More of
> the same. Another trip to Penrith...a once a year sojourn over the Tasman
> to play the Warriors, maybe an annual trip to Wigan. Tough choice Braith.
>
> League's failure to penetrate nationally is exacerbated by its complete
> lack of international profile. Last year it seemed they were going some way
> to redeem that with the launch of the Tri-Nations series, which initially
> proved a huge success.
>
> Problem is, when really put to the test, Australia simply crushed Great
> Britain like they've done for the last forty years, and on their return,
> NRL coaches retreated in to their provincialism, claiming the tournament
> was 'too long' and 'could impact on the domestic season'. I'll tell you
> what guys - YOU stay small, you know it makes sense.
>
> How the League boys must long for the days when the only access to
> Australia was by boat, and the only television coverage was local and
> parochial. No overseas football to contend with, no glamour from elsewhere
> giving Australians a flavour of something different.
>
> Well, the world has changed, and League knows Asia, with its tough
> international qualifying zone and cash-rich Champions League is something
> that it can never, ever compete with.
>
> The irony of the League crowd is that on the one hand, they preach about
> how disgraceful the crowd incidents are at football - yet in the same
> breath, revel in photos of 'big, tough' players on the pitch trying to rip
> each others heads off. How does that work exactly? (Oh, and while we're
> about it, isn't giving someone a 'wedgie' just a teensy bit NTTAWWTy boys?)
>
> But there's another, much bigger, irony that hasn't been touched on at all
> by the media in Sydney. On the same day as the 'soccer riots' took place
> between Sydney United and Bonnyrigg in Parramatta (arrest count single
> figures), rather more trouble was afoot across town at the Rugby League
> game between St. George and the Sydney Roosters - twenty eight arrests to
> be exact. Anyone read that in their Sydney paper in the days that followed?
> No? Me either.
>
> Fights at the League game? Just the lads having too much beer, that's all.
> Fights at the 'soccer'? Ethnic warfare - that's the message from Sydney's
> media.
>
> All of which wouldn't be so bad if there was some balance somewhere - but
> so far, only ABC televisions The Glasshouse programme has managed to take a
> stab at the difference in coverage, labelling some of the reporting at
> worst, 'racist'. Couldn't have put it better myself.
>
> So, what can we do about it? Well, making your feelings known is one way -
> but I'd prefer a different approach. Vote with your feet. If you truly love
> the game, support the A-League and make it a rip-roaring success by going
> to matches. That's the only way we can put this type of crass journalism to
> bed for good.