What's our new plan A?

[year of the cat]

I reckon it's just a touch early to write Ottens off just yet. He normally takes a little while to work his way into the season. Give him at least 4-6 weeks into the year before writing his epitaph.

He can't though VEEDUBS be played forward. That would be a disaster. He just doesn't have the mobility to play down there. If he doesn't mark it then the ball would race out of our defence quicker than Gary signed with GC.

We needs Hawkins to be played at FF. He made errors last night but he did show a real zest for the contest and vigor. He will get better. I would play a smaller forwardline with him, SJ, Chappy and perhaps Menzel. Taylor could be experimented up forward in the next couple of weeks as a backup assuming both Mooney and Pods are unavailable round one.

I don't have high expectations for us next time we play the Saints. We look to be adjusting to Scott's new game plan. It's only natural that this will take a little time to get right.

 

[Vdubs]

Honestly , although his contribution was moderate I feel West was good in the ruck last night. It was just a shame our on ball division was so light that we could not make the most it.

I have seen nothing to repudiate my previous assertion . Ottens is cooked , he should have been put out to pasture once we change coaches. We will gain nothing by playing him and lose a seasons experience for our up and comers.
For Ottens its time , pull the pin , bring down the hammer , drop the curtain cause the rotund one is clearing her throat. Thanks for the memories Otto but lets not wait till it gets really smelly.

I do totally agree with you, but doesn't it matter a little that we still have him on our list, perhaps our most highly paid player, so he has to be give us something in the 1's this year. I still think the vwriting was there but he did not read it. Is it Ottens not letting go, or the club feeling there is one more tilt at a flag. As Ling has already proclaimed, and now has a recurring Hammy curse .

 

[Turbocat]

I reckon it's just a touch early to write Ottens off just yet. He normally takes a little while to work his way into the season. Give him at least 4-6 weeks into the year before writing his epitaph.

He can't though VEEDUBS be played forward. That would be a disaster. He just doesn't have the mobility to play down there. If he doesn't mark it then the ball would race out of our defence quicker than Gary signed with GC.

We needs Hawkins to be played at FF. He made errors last night but he did show a real zest for the contest and vigor. He will get better. I would play a smaller forwardline with him, SJ, Chappy and perhaps Menzel. Taylor could be experimented up forward in the next couple of weeks as a backup assuming both Mooney and Pods are unavailable round one.

I don't have high expectations for us next time we play the Saints. We look to be adjusting to Scott's new game plan. It's only natural that this will take a little time to get right.

If was a touch thing , id agree with you but he is playing with zipless legs , no speed , no spring , he reminds me of what King looked like when we got rid of him he is gone and if it was me id tell him his role is as a backup.

 

[SJ]

If was a touch thing , id agree with you but he is playing with zipless legs , no speed , no spring , he reminds me of what King looked like when we got rid of him he is gone and if it was me id tell him his role is as a backup.

And it was the same story at the end of 2010. To be honest I was sure he'd pull the pin.

 

[year of the cat]

If was a touch thing , id agree with you but he is playing with zipless legs , no speed , no spring , he reminds me of what King looked like when we got rid of him he is gone and if it was me id tell him he role is as a backup.

If we are to concede that our premiership chances are now gone for a little while then I would agree that there is no point in continuing with Ottens but whilst we face a mammoth task to add a third flag in 5 years I reckon we still give it one more shot. I just can't see us winning a flag this year without Otto being in the team.

 

[Vdubs]

If we are to concede that our premiership chances are now gone for a little while then I would agree that there is no point in continuing with Ottens but whilst we face a mammoth task to add a third flag in 5 years I reckon we still give it one more shot. I just can't see us winning a flag this year without Otto being in the team.

That is what the management must be feeling too. I can't see us winning a flag with Ottens in the team, unless he recaptures form, fitness and LUCK. Of course we are aiming for one more flag, but some time during this season, reality will hit us all, and by season's end, these issues will be sorted, with a hefty exodus of those that should maybe already have departed and some more.

IMHO, This season will be a little frustrating getting used to the new coach and gameplan, and the reality of our ageing stars having less impact, and that some of our recruits are just not as good as they need to be this year.

 

[Maydok]

That is what the management must be feeling too. I can't see us winning a flag with Ottens in the team, unless he recaptures form, fitness and LUCK. Of course we are aiming for one more flag, but some time during this season, reality will hit us all, and by season's end, these issues will be sorted, with a hefty exodus of those that should maybe already have departed and some more.

IMHO, This season will be a little frustrating getting used to the new coach and gameplan, and the reality of our ageing stars having less impact, and that some of our recruits are just not as good as they need to be this year.

Yeah, have to agree with this - while we can all see the guys who are going to replace the Ottens, Mooneys, Milburns, Lings etc... they're not all going to be able to take their spots and immediately play at the level those guys did in their prime.

I reckon I'll invent a dozen new swear words this season.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

If was a touch thing , id agree with you but he is playing with zipless legs , no speed , no spring , he reminds me of what King looked like when we got rid of him he is gone and if it was me id tell him his role is as a backup.

I agree, but I don't see it happening.

I agree with you and SJ that Simpson offers about as much so he should be played.

I'd hate to get to the end of the year knowing Otto and Blake are going, but Simpson and West haven't played much. They need to so we know what we've got (or don't have, if they flounder) so we can make decisions about the future of our ruck division.

 

[Vdubs]

I agree, but I don't see it happening.

I agree with you and SJ that Simpson offers about as much so he should be played.

I'd hate to get to the end of the year knowing Otto and Blake are going, but Simpson and West haven't played much. They need to so we know what we've got (or don't have, if they flounder) so we can make decisions about the future of our ruck division.

I do not see Blake leaving before West, but then I am looking through Blake coloured glasses . Time will tell.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

hope you don't mind me bumping in here boys
we all see things differently but personally I have never been a big mooney fan when it came to playing football, he's been great in watching over some of the smaller blokes in our side and his physicality has always caused more turnovers to opposition than his athletiscm and playing ability ever could. He is a good mark on the lead but never been a great contested mark nor a good kick and may have cost us bigtime in a few very important games over the years. His loss won't be too important when he does retire and Milburn well....always been slow but has Archer-like courage which is nearly impossible to find in any football player which is why it's just so great to have Selwood. Milburn is now starting to become a liability but his courage and competitive nature get him a game weekly.
My point is....very ironic those 4 guys that were highlighted are now our slowest players at the club at shows how the game has sped up over the past 5 years again.

 

[you pick one]

I do not see Blake leaving before West, but then I am looking through Blake coloured glasses . Time will tell.

I don't think who leaves before who mater's veedubs, the real game here is Blake v Simpson,with Otto trying to hold on.with out the new sub rule West might have been in real trouble and still might be if Vardy comes on.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I do not see Blake leaving before West, but then I am looking through Blake coloured glasses . Time will tell.

Sub rule has changed everything. The fact that West was given a contract for 2011 and 2012 off a moderate year, and Blake was allowed to shop himself and couldn't find a home, is all the answer you need.

Salary cap is really the only reason Blake didn't leave before West in October, but he still will, it'll just be at the end of this year IMO.

 

[Scottland2007]

GWS will chase Bartell and have to settle for Blake?....

 

[Turbocat]

Sub rule has changed everything.

Thinking on that , why is Lonergan a lock. Far better to play West as a defender (or a player like him) , have a Vardy or Hawkins help out up forward and then the ruckman would and could stay on the ball for a lot long perhaps floating from Wing to Wing.

 

[maxy87]

Thinking on that , why is Lonergan a lock. Far better to play West as a defender (or a player like him) , have a Vardy or Hawkins help out up forward and then the ruckman would and could stay on the ball for a lot long perhaps floating from Wing to Wing.

In theory that could work.. But is West mobile enough to be servicable down back? He is certainly moreso than Blake but Lonergan is a more natural KP type. Interestingly there's only 1 cm between West and Lonergan though. I'd imagine that Lonners will be the choice down back as the taller (193cm+) option so it might be more worthwhile getting Lonners to take stoppages with a third man up (Jimmy) and then have 1st ruck occupy space in the centre of the ground to link up after a long lockout from defensive 50.

 

[pessimiser]

plan A , accept we are no longer the best or even top 4, play the kids as much as possible they are the present and the future, get some decent draft picks after 2 years down thne bottom .START AGAIN.

 

[Vdubs]

plan A , accept we are no longer the best or even top 4, play the kids as much as possible they are the present and the future, get some decent draft picks after 2 years down thne bottom .START AGAIN.

Partly agree. Really depends on how we start. Beating Saints, which is my main hope, would suggest we are a chance for anything this year, even if it's only round 1 .If we are 0 - 5, yes, you would have a good point. Unlikely though, and we will likely be in the middle just to tantalize us.

 

[maxy87]

Partly agree. Really depends on how we start. Beating Saints, which is my main hope, would suggest we are a chance for anything this year, even if it's only round 1 .If we are 0 - 5, yes, you would have a good point. Unlikely though, and we will likely be in the middle just to tantalize us.

I think given we have a few out and its only Round 1 of a new season with a new coach we should just judge the Saints game on how we look as a team. Even if we go down and possibly by a bit if the signs are there I think we should persevere. On the other hand, if we struggle to keep our heads above water so to speak then it's time to dip and rebuild. The last thing we want is s period of stagnation and mediocrity. I think we'll be ok though. The situation isn't as doomy and gloomy as some seem to think. If the team plays it's best it's still bloody ominous. Question is whether they can reach that level.

 

[you pick one]

Judging on last night our new plan A is our old plan A.We had a reasonable back line last night and still persisted with the handball circle work 30 mtr out directely in front of Ports goal,realy hoped that would be gone. And up forward we still look to push for one more handball or short pass and turn it over.
May be Bomber was write it's so ingrained in them now he couldn't get them to change.

 

[Cataholic]

Judging on last night our new plan A is our old plan A.We had a reasonable back line last night and still persisted with the handball circle work 30 mtr out directely in front of Ports goal,realy hoped that would be gone. And up forward we still look to push for one more handball or short pass and turn it over.
May be Bomber was write it's so ingrained in them now he couldn't get them to change.

The way we stuff around with the ball at times is so bloody frustrating to watch, and often tempts me to throw something heavy at the tv!!

I've really been hoping that Scott would eradicate this from our game, but it seems old habits die hard.

We desperately need to play more direct footy out of the backline, and I hope he instills this style of play sooner than later.

 

[Vdubs]

The way we stuff around with the ball at times is so bloody frustrating to watch, and often tempts me to throw something heavy at the tv!!

I've really been hoping that Scott would eradicate this from our game, but it seems old habits die hard.

We desperately need to play more direct footy out of the backline, and I hope he instills this style of play sooner than later.

If we are too slow and not as skilled as the opposition on the day, and each possession is therefore under constant pressure, as has been the case past 2 weeks, there's no way we can dictate play and get into new habits.
Wouldn't read anything into these experimental games, but if this was to be our modus operandi all season, obviously, we'll be where Port/Lions were last year.

 

[Cataholic]

If we are too slow and not as skilled as the opposition on the day, and each possession is therefore under constant pressure, as has been the case past 2 weeks, there's no way we can dictate play and get into new habits.
Wouldn't read anything into these experimental games, but if this was to be our modus operandi all season, obviously, we'll be where Port/Lions were last year.

I hear what you're saying, but there have been moments in play during these games that give you a worrying insight into the player's mindset.

ie

last night, Hawkins was on his own near front of goal, still fumbled the mark, then attempted to dish it off and lost the ball, when he was virtually in front and what, 25 metres out?

That was not the result of pressure, but a poor thought process. Why?

 

[leorex]

If we beat the Saints and then back it up with another win
l'll think we are a top 4 side.If we don't do these things we should by half way start to mould a team together for 2012 and experimenting with various game plans.Not just play a few youngsters but play a team that is going to be around for 2013.
I don't know if you can come out with a completely new game plan with senior players.My worst nightmare is that we play in a Grand Final with a team very familiar with the teams of the last year and get hammered.Which would only make good a great DVD for the opposition club.

 

[CatFan79]

If we beat the Saints and then back it up with another win
l'll think we are a top 4 side.If we don't do these things we should by half way start to mould a team together for 2012 and experimenting with various game plans.Not just play a few youngsters but play a team that is going to be around for 2013.
I don't know if you can come out with a completely new game plan with senior players.My worst nightmare is that we play in a Grand Final with a team very familiar with the teams of the last year and get hammered.Which would only make good a great DVD for the opposition club.

So let me get this right. If we lose the first 2 games we drop the seniors to the reserves?

FFS.. Hopefully when the season proper starts again the quality improves on here.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

we all see things differently but personally I have never been a big mooney fan when it came to playing football, he's been great in watching over some of the smaller blokes in our side and his physicality has always caused more turnovers to opposition than his athletiscm and playing ability ever could. He is a good mark on the lead but never been a great contested mark nor a good kick and may have cost us bigtime in a few very important games over the years.

Think you're being a bit harsh on Moons. I think he's a very good mark either in a one on one contest or on a lead, it's always been his strength. His kicking is fine too, as long as he's not aiming at the sticks and he has a very good left foot. I've always likened him to a very poor man's Richo, personally. He's been at his best when he's been streaming out of the forward fifty, taking a grab somewhere near the edge of the centre square and firing off a handball to Corey/Ablett/Chapman/Varcoe/Selwood/Kelly etc. on the run. But, will that be Pods' role this year? Time will tell.

I'm down with Johnson having time in the middle for bursts this year (say 20-30 minutes a game). He'll make a howler or two, but he gives us a different look to other midfielders. His composure and peripheral vision will help us keep moving the ball forward. Similarly, I would like to see Hunt spend some time in the middle and on the half forward flank. See if he can play the Rooke role.

Here would be my 22, as it stands, for round 1:

B: Enright, Scarlett, Milburn
HB: Mackie, Taylor, T. Hunt
C: Wojcinski, Bartel, Varcoe
HF: Chapman, Mooney, Duncan
F: Byrnes, Hawkins, S. Johnson
R: Ottens, Kelly, Selwood
I/C: Corey, Simpson, J.Hunt
Sub: Stokes/Menzel