We pick a physically strong powerful unit that beats up opposition at clearances. We are winning games off that but it comes with an obvious sacrifice of overall team endurance. Particularly at this time of year on fast paced hard grounds against fresh (early season) teams. So much scope for improvement and we are still at 4-1.
Analysis What's the cause of our second half (3rd quarter) fade outs?
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Just some scenarios to put things into perspective for those who haven't played modern structured team defence footy to add more to why we are blowing up at half time and just how big of a deal these defensive leaks are. These are scenarios that are killing us for late in the game. It's all about where you have to be to defend based on where the ball carrier is and how quick you need to get there to defend it.
Scenario 1
The opposition have the ball wide at half back. We have a heavy defensive cluster at centre wing. Pretty standard stuff. Most of our team is standing there waiting for the ball to come their way using very little energy.
The opposition can either kick straight up the line to a 50/50 contest, this is what you want as the defending team. No hard running, just a contest from a long ball going forward.
Lets say the opposition switch the ball into the middle instead. What happens to our defensive cluster at centre wing is that it needs to run at full speed to beat the footy inside our defensive 50. Against Port there were times we couldn't get there but somehow were able to defend like that. Luck more than anything.
Doing this burns a lot of energy and as a defender in a zone, the worst thing to see is when the ball goes inside and all of a sudden it's not coming straight to you, you're now out of position and you have to run like mad to get to the next position to defend. Last thing you want to be doing as a defensive team is sprinting from one position to another. Which we are doing because we are letting the ball come inside.
With a good defensive structure and that hard run doesn't happen because they don't go into the middle and you have fuel in the tank for later in the game.
Scenario 2
The deep switch. You bring the ball wide and it brings the defence wide. That defensive cluster will form and sit ahead of the ball. You switch to the opposite side and they have to push hard to the other side to get ahead of the ball and they need to do it at pace. It spreads the defence, it adds fast miles to the oppositions legs. Those sprint efforts add up as the game wares on. You might not create an attacking play from a switch but it takes petrol out of the opposition's tank. If you do a double switch it adds more. Don't think I have seen us switch the ball to one side then switch back all season.
The deep switch used to be far more popular than it is now. Teams tend to want to bring the ball back inside further up the field as the run from centre wing to half back or inside 50 burns a lot more energy than the run from one side to the other.
However, I like the deep switch as a means for breaking up a very heavy one sided zone. We often get stuck in defence when this is implemented. It's still a safe and effective way to make the opposition do more defensive running which we must learn to do as a team to stop these fade outs.
Scenario 3
The high switch of play. Lets say the opposition switch the play at half back and bring it to the other side. Port were able to do it a lot.
The defensive cluster needs to sprint from centre wing across the middle and meet back up with the play on the opposite back flank to create a squeeze there. They either do it successfully or the ball beats them and it goes inside 50 to an open forward line.
Again, this is a long hard sprint that will burn our legs. Should not be happening anywhere near this often. The alternative is that we defend well, the ball comes straight to our defence who is standing still, not having to sprint to catch the play.
What I am seeing
Teams bringing the ball into the middle and finding targets. Shouldn't happen. Teams switching the play at our half back line. It's happening regularly enough to burn our team out on the rebound.
I'm seeing the opposition do this to us a lot, but we aren't doing this to anyone either. Teams don't have to run hard to defend our game plan because of the lack of inside ball movement and switches of play. We play up the line a lot, we are good at it and score from it but we aren't being hard to defend against, we aren't burning the opposition out playing that way.
"Fun" things to do
Go to your local ground with a mate and a footy and stand centre wing and have someone kick the ball to you. Kick it back, now run 50 meters forward and get it again.
Now stand centre wing, sprint to the opposite back flank, have them kick the ball to you when you get there, then kick it back, now run 50 metres forward and get it back.
Now stand centre wing, sprint towards the opposite back flank, when you hit centre sprint towards a spot 30 meters out from goal, have someone kick the ball to you when you get there then kick it back, run 50 meters back the other way and get it back.
Take note how hard the final run is with all three and how gassed you are and how that might effect your ability to attack and your kicking etc. What burns the least energy.
The first drill represents good defending and how it leaves petrol in the tank to attack and for later quarters. The second drill represents what happens when the opposition are allowed to find targets in the middle of the ground. The third drill represents what happens when the opposition switch the play at half back. This will give you an understanding of what is happening to our team and why we appear to have noting left in the tank after half time after a big game of defending corridor and switch play.
Watch out for this
In our coming games, watch out for how often teams are able to bring the ball into the middle of the ground when coming out of our backline. Watch out for how often teams are able to switch the ball to the opposite side at half back. Teams may not necessarily score when they do this, but what they are doing is making our guys run really hard to defend. It's not sustainable for 4 quarters.
Scenario 1
The opposition have the ball wide at half back. We have a heavy defensive cluster at centre wing. Pretty standard stuff. Most of our team is standing there waiting for the ball to come their way using very little energy.
The opposition can either kick straight up the line to a 50/50 contest, this is what you want as the defending team. No hard running, just a contest from a long ball going forward.
Lets say the opposition switch the ball into the middle instead. What happens to our defensive cluster at centre wing is that it needs to run at full speed to beat the footy inside our defensive 50. Against Port there were times we couldn't get there but somehow were able to defend like that. Luck more than anything.
Doing this burns a lot of energy and as a defender in a zone, the worst thing to see is when the ball goes inside and all of a sudden it's not coming straight to you, you're now out of position and you have to run like mad to get to the next position to defend. Last thing you want to be doing as a defensive team is sprinting from one position to another. Which we are doing because we are letting the ball come inside.
With a good defensive structure and that hard run doesn't happen because they don't go into the middle and you have fuel in the tank for later in the game.
Scenario 2
The deep switch. You bring the ball wide and it brings the defence wide. That defensive cluster will form and sit ahead of the ball. You switch to the opposite side and they have to push hard to the other side to get ahead of the ball and they need to do it at pace. It spreads the defence, it adds fast miles to the oppositions legs. Those sprint efforts add up as the game wares on. You might not create an attacking play from a switch but it takes petrol out of the opposition's tank. If you do a double switch it adds more. Don't think I have seen us switch the ball to one side then switch back all season.
The deep switch used to be far more popular than it is now. Teams tend to want to bring the ball back inside further up the field as the run from centre wing to half back or inside 50 burns a lot more energy than the run from one side to the other.
However, I like the deep switch as a means for breaking up a very heavy one sided zone. We often get stuck in defence when this is implemented. It's still a safe and effective way to make the opposition do more defensive running which we must learn to do as a team to stop these fade outs.
Scenario 3
The high switch of play. Lets say the opposition switch the play at half back and bring it to the other side. Port were able to do it a lot.
The defensive cluster needs to sprint from centre wing across the middle and meet back up with the play on the opposite back flank to create a squeeze there. They either do it successfully or the ball beats them and it goes inside 50 to an open forward line.
Again, this is a long hard sprint that will burn our legs. Should not be happening anywhere near this often. The alternative is that we defend well, the ball comes straight to our defence who is standing still, not having to sprint to catch the play.
What I am seeing
Teams bringing the ball into the middle and finding targets. Shouldn't happen. Teams switching the play at our half back line. It's happening regularly enough to burn our team out on the rebound.
I'm seeing the opposition do this to us a lot, but we aren't doing this to anyone either. Teams don't have to run hard to defend our game plan because of the lack of inside ball movement and switches of play. We play up the line a lot, we are good at it and score from it but we aren't being hard to defend against, we aren't burning the opposition out playing that way.
"Fun" things to do
Go to your local ground with a mate and a footy and stand centre wing and have someone kick the ball to you. Kick it back, now run 50 meters forward and get it again.
Now stand centre wing, sprint to the opposite back flank, have them kick the ball to you when you get there, then kick it back, now run 50 metres forward and get it back.
Now stand centre wing, sprint towards the opposite back flank, when you hit centre sprint towards a spot 30 meters out from goal, have someone kick the ball to you when you get there then kick it back, run 50 meters back the other way and get it back.
Take note how hard the final run is with all three and how gassed you are and how that might effect your ability to attack and your kicking etc. What burns the least energy.
The first drill represents good defending and how it leaves petrol in the tank to attack and for later quarters. The second drill represents what happens when the opposition are allowed to find targets in the middle of the ground. The third drill represents what happens when the opposition switch the play at half back. This will give you an understanding of what is happening to our team and why we appear to have noting left in the tank after half time after a big game of defending corridor and switch play.
Watch out for this
In our coming games, watch out for how often teams are able to bring the ball into the middle of the ground when coming out of our backline. Watch out for how often teams are able to switch the ball to the opposite side at half back. Teams may not necessarily score when they do this, but what they are doing is making our guys run really hard to defend. It's not sustainable for 4 quarters.
Maybe too simplistic but if a side is 40 or 50 points behind at half time chances are they haven't worked very hard at it in the first half...so they come out after half time and have a crack and the side who has done all the work can't keep up....what I've seen this year which wasn't evident last year i.e. the Bulldogs game or the horror game against Hawthorn in Perth a couple of years ago is that we have been able to hang in there and are able to get the win rather than than get run over which is the old Carlton...paralysis through analysis.........just happy for the wins
The Old Dark Navy's
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You mentioned a decent defensive structure being needed. This defensive cluster you talk about seems like Auskick. For a team to go up the middle or switch the play, they have to have runners to kick to. This means someone hanging out in the defensive cluster is not being responsible for his man. So, are we playing man on man or zone defence? Seems to me, the team in possession is responsible for the cluster as they are the ones leading to the heavy spot. Their outlying runners still have opponents though, so they run the risk of turning the ball over where they have thin coverage. We just need the right players to provide cover for these switch options.
The question is, if the opposition is getting numbers free, which Carlton players have mentally lapsed?
We're definitely leaving some of their defenders behind, a lot of the players in the middle or at our half back line are unmanned.
One thing I will give us is we adjusted our zone this week to prevent the short kick going forward. That's been a killer but again, it's not as bad as them coming inside or switching high up the ground as it takes less energy to defend, however that kick does open the game up at times. We do that well.
With the inside kick, both Port, GCS and Hawthorn went in there and turned it over or nearly turned it over at times but seemed willing to take that risk. Teams would not have done that is the past, teams are definitely more eager to go central and switch high up the ground than they were a few years ago.
We seem to be dedicated to getting as many numbers forward of the ball as possible but leaving players unmanned through the middle of the ground and across half back. It's good having that cluster ahead of the ball but if you let the opposition just go around it then that causes all kinds of problems.
Watching Melbourne the other night, they seemed to be mostly man on man with players in the corridor and standing centre side of them as to push them wide. Whoever was spare was ahead of the ball. They seem really good with defending the centre of the ground and against that high switch.
From what I see we have a very talented side, particularly in the middle and forward line. We score heavily, defend poorly and get away with it because of the quality of the players and the score we put on the board.
How we play after half time is not over relevant as the damage is mostly done however I think we need to embrace the switch to eat up time and play possession footy a bit. Maybe we can run our opposition around a bit after half time, just take a bit out of them for a change.
Main thing is that we aren't having the ball go up the middle and being switched high up the ground and moved quickly forward. If that's happening then our team defence has broken down. I don't mind if the opposition go up the wing at a steady pace and get it inside our forward line. That's not going to take a lot of energy to defend that sort of play. Just as long as it's not being moved fast, up the middle or switched high up the field.
I blame myself. I usually play ps4 during half time and when the second half starts the team sucks.
The Old Dark Navy's, I just had a quick view for an example of what I am talking about. The first frame is from a stoppage on our half forward flank, 43 for Port is there lose receiving. Takes about 10 seconds to go from there to a deep open one on one in our forward line. There are loads of examples of this kick inside open the game up and gassing our our player trying to defend this kind of opposition ball movement.
Lose man inside at our half forward line after a stoppage. He's not a runner, he's just standing there unmarked.
Goes again to the wing where an opponent has not been guarded properly. Again the lateral kick opens the space right up. Un defendable once the ball comes inside. Note the players at the top of screen trying to get ahead of the play to defend this play. There goes our defensive zone, it's out of the play. Now they having to bust a gut because of a poor defensive structure. These gut busting runs to defend this sort of ball movement is due to our poor defensive structure. Continued hard running like this is why we are out of gas and can't attack after half time and go into a standby defensive game where we just get pummelled.
10 seconds and the ball is here, it's beaten our team defence in and burnt our whole team trying to get back and defend this. No one can run as fast as a ball moved through the air. This play resulted in a goal as it should have but it doesn't matter whether the opposition score from this or not. It's burning our energy and that opens the game up to them later in the match.
This happens repeatedly against us over and over again because our defensive structure is garbage. This is why we are out of legs at half time.
Lose man inside at our half forward line after a stoppage. He's not a runner, he's just standing there unmarked.
Goes again to the wing where an opponent has not been guarded properly. Again the lateral kick opens the space right up. Un defendable once the ball comes inside. Note the players at the top of screen trying to get ahead of the play to defend this play. There goes our defensive zone, it's out of the play. Now they having to bust a gut because of a poor defensive structure. These gut busting runs to defend this sort of ball movement is due to our poor defensive structure. Continued hard running like this is why we are out of gas and can't attack after half time and go into a standby defensive game where we just get pummelled.
10 seconds and the ball is here, it's beaten our team defence in and burnt our whole team trying to get back and defend this. No one can run as fast as a ball moved through the air. This play resulted in a goal as it should have but it doesn't matter whether the opposition score from this or not. It's burning our energy and that opens the game up to them later in the match.
This happens repeatedly against us over and over again because our defensive structure is garbage. This is why we are out of legs at half time.
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Literally moments later. Turnover in the same part of the ground on our HFF, kick comes inside to the player near the umpire but look at all the lose options in the middle. This is an extremely ugly image for our coaching group. This means more hard running for Carlton. To defend this play we need to get ahead of footy at lightning speed. This is when the damage was getting done. We are burning some serious petrol allowing this kind of ball movement.
If you're going to defend like this, you are going to have to run your guts out. If you let the opposition play like this, you are going to burn a phenomenal amount of energy defending. This is where our energy is going and why we are having fadeouts.
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The Old Dark Navy's
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So, we are deliberately leaving players free that we don't think will receive the ball, banking on our tight, swarming cluster providing enough pressure to win the ball in traffic. The issue then is that if the opposition can get it free from that cluster, it's off to the races.
This has to be taught or we still have players getting sucked in too far.
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I like you analysis.
What is the remedy for our team, using your example of good defending, above?
Lets say in one instance we lose the ball in our f50 and have to defend.
In another instance let’s say we win the ball back deep in our d50.
How do we efficiently use energy in both cases?
Edit: having read more responses, it probably includes losing the contest at a bounce/throw in and oppo spreading wide. FWIW, I think we need to have a plan to switch gears to a “defensive” paradigm when we have a good lead. Kicking more goals is great and fun, but if you’re 8 goals up at half time, winning the game by 8 goals and not by 20 goals is still a fantastic result.
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Extremely good analysis gbatma, as always. Please send an email to Vossy and hope he reads it.
I have no idea why this keeps happening. In every era of football allowing players lose in the middle of the ground is a cardinal sin. It's not a part of any good game plan I have ever seen.
As far as I am concerned, we are blessed with an extremely good midfield, a very good forward line and a good backline. The offensive side of our game is one of the best in the league and the player quality in our team is really high.
This glosses over the fact that our defensive structure is one of the worst in the competition. If we weren't so strong for personnel we would be getting a belting every week with the defensive structure we implement. We are lucky to have a team that can win the ball so well and score so rapidly. The suns gave us a taste of what happens when we don't dominate the midfield, clearance and inside 50s. We don't have a defence to back us up.
As soon as the opposition have it at our half forward line they are pretty much off to the races. Hawthorn were the first to pick up on that. When Hawthorn and Port finally started winning a bit of the ball they showed an obsession with going inside and switching play, all teams know this is the weak link in our team.
Massive defensive issues in our side being protected by our awesome offensive capabilities but we can all see something is wrong.
Our coaching group has a lot of work to do.
Defend the corridor a lot better than we do. Ok with them going around the boundary. But we must account for all the players in the middle of the ground and that includes short inside kicks as well as those long switches to the opposite side.
Rather they have more space up the wings than allow them to switch inside and take our zone out of the equation. Just got to keep them wide, we can defend that and it takes less energy to do so. We want the opposition to play the same way all day, come out wide, kick it straight up the ground. Easy running, easy defending, predictable to or defenders.
How we attack from deep in defence is ok in some ways, but let's instigate a switch more often and look to come back inside more. Let's work on getting the ball to the other side of the ground more. I'm all for the double switch as well, it makes the defending team run. Go across the ground and then come back. The opposition defence has to move with the ball, make them do some pointless defensive running then go forward. Add an extra kilometre to their GPS chasing our play a bit and we will be rewarded for it later in the game. Lets do to them what Port, GCS and Hawthorn have done to us. Demand that they put in some really big efforts with defensive running. This is what I would call slowing the game up and being a little more defensive. Just work the opposition's team defence over a bit rather than just looking to go forward hard and fast.
Just because you are scoring from your play doesn't mean you are doing everything. Ideally you want to be scoring and working the opposition over as well. They aren't going to instigate big come backs if they haven't got the energy in the bank late in games.
Defending better, attacking better. These are the layers that need to be added to our game.
Managing the energy levels of our team and the opposition we are playing and being conscious of that is an area out coaches need to be more aware of. Is our game style burning too much energy? Is there too much hard running that should not be happening? Are we making the opposition team work hard to defend? Are we making the opposition team do enough hard running to drag them down due to our ball movement? How are we defending and how is that effecting our energy reserves? All questions for our coaching and playing group.
- Nov 27, 2016
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Our half forwards don't defend well.
Fisher, Martin Jsos very rarely go with an opposition half back when they push up through the middle of the ground. Oppo half backs are consistently creating the overlap.
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It looks like that, I think a lot of the rot we are seeing is coming from our forwards not defending well. IMO your forwards are responsible for preventing the switch and manning the corridor.
- Nov 27, 2016
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really sobering reading. cheers i appreciate the insights but im now depressed
I think Kohphi is onto it.
Mainly fatigue.
The hard running ,overlap, offensive clearance game we are playing is ballistic and as good as anybody at present but proving to be NOT sustainable for 4 quarters.
Particularly as we have had the least rotations of our mid fielders in comp.
Also simply not working hard enough on turn overs/ kick ins and conceding way too many uncontested marks .
Particularly in the corridor.
This needs immediate work and is why we get the run's of four plus goals scored against us so often and so easily
.
It is so MADDENING !
If players are not prepared to work harder in defense and shut this down then they have to be axed.
THIS NEEDS TO BE NON NEGOTIABLE and the coaching staffs biggest challenge.
Vossy would obviously be aware of our issues but would definitely not want to change our starts however.
We need to play more tempo footy once we establish a comfortable lead. Slow things down, chip it around and hang
onto it. Use time and hold possession. Not rocket science IMO. Has to start with the Team leaders.
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- Nov 27, 2016
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I think kick-ins are another issue.
Why can't we have several set plays for the kick in that will guarantee we get the ball to at least the boundary on the wing?
Why can't we have several set plays for the kick in that will guarantee we get the ball to at least the boundary on the wing?
SBYM
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Pretty sure we just need to man up and kick it long but yell 'who's that to?!' when we turn it over.
- Nov 27, 2016
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Just sick of the kick ins going to someone like Owies with three oppo talls around him. Makes no sense.
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When Port started coming back it was obvious that we did try squeeze them along the boundary on the switch but because they kept finding short targets all along the way and eventually score our structures fell apart and they began to open us up up the middle.
Our kick ins and clearing from defence completely fell apart as the game wore on. In the last minute of the game a hard running Charlie ran to the wing to try provide an option but there were 3 players already onto him. Why isn't the instruction that when one of our talls are running hard to a spot a couple of short players are running with him for the spoil? It must be fatigue.
Our kick ins and clearing from defence completely fell apart as the game wore on. In the last minute of the game a hard running Charlie ran to the wing to try provide an option but there were 3 players already onto him. Why isn't the instruction that when one of our talls are running hard to a spot a couple of short players are running with him for the spoil? It must be fatigue.
thebluenewdeal
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I think there’s an easy answer to this. Teams adjust to our clearance work. They don’t let us get that last handball to the outside that really kills them. They also play an extra at the stoppage. When that happens we tend to just go harder in the contest and just force kicks out of congestion. It gives their backs time and space to the read the flight of the ball and then they use that extra at the stoppage for overlap run.
Easy fix. Equalise numbers at the stoppage and bank on crippa to draw to players to him or an even better strategy would be to set up the stoppage purely to pressure them and let them get clearances. That way weiters can get his game going as an interceptor and we can actually work on our turnover game. Have to rob peter to pay Paul but in the long term will get us more used to these sorts of tactics especially if crippa isn’t in the team or can’t draw 2 players.
Easy fix. Equalise numbers at the stoppage and bank on crippa to draw to players to him or an even better strategy would be to set up the stoppage purely to pressure them and let them get clearances. That way weiters can get his game going as an interceptor and we can actually work on our turnover game. Have to rob peter to pay Paul but in the long term will get us more used to these sorts of tactics especially if crippa isn’t in the team or can’t draw 2 players.
Justnetime
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+1
I agree with this. Sides get smacked by us early. Opposition Coach rants on their midfielders and they tighten up on us as the game progresses. They try harder to simply negate and pressure. That forces us to rush kick. The rush kick leads to their turnover game. This tightening up of midfielders just happens to coincide with a team wide concerted second half effort to catch us in desperation while we try and continue with how we played first half. we currently don’t react to the opposition change.
The stats also show us we don’t have a turnover game so when we lose our stoppage game we are in trouble.
I dont think it is that much to do with fatigue rather than game and transition mechanics. I don’t think it is to do with Kennedy Or Setterfield being on the slow side.
The bit I notice is our forward line is flooded in the second half and then counter attack occurs to their open forward line. Our players aren’t tired…they are just not running back in the numbers required to flood the opponents forward line. This is transition footy we haven’t got yet. I’ve noticed our key tall defenders having to have more one on ones than say mckay and Curnow who are double teamEd in the second half if not a pack of 6-8 players including a ruckman.
Voss gets a tick for training us on stoppages. We saw it in preseason training drills. Exits from stoppages. He isn’t getting a pass yet from transition footy. Maybe it simply takes longer And is harder.
The one thing that doesn’t take too much strategy is hard runnng to counter flood their forward line. Is it the players aren’t doing it or has Vossy got a structure that precludes it.
thebluenewdeal
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Great insight. I think we are working on it but it’s just something that’ll take time. We seem to be a team that needs to win contested possessions to be a chance to win. We are also lucky to have great forwards so I think it’s a game style that works for our group but we need to evolve to be a contender.
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