What's the missing ingredient(s) to get us to another premiership?

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As far as I'm concerned, with the inclusion of O'Meara and Mitchell, the increasing likelihood of Burton becoming a star, and the likes of Lovell and Howe showing potential—among others, it seems to me we really only need an elite forward and a solid defender to continue seriously challenging. With Roughead back in the frame for 2017, we're probably back in with a fair chance to go top-4 (and further). But in 2018, with no Gibson, there will be a pretty significant hole. I know a lot of people here are talking about the 'big-fish' being a mid, but I think our midfield might just come together. Can Brand or Heatherley step up?
 
The biggest thing I've seen so far is the word "if". If we avoid injury, if players who were injured/out return to near-best form, if young players continue to develop, etc. Virtually no one (outside of their own fan base of course) believes a repeat is in the works for WB, so why NOT us? Grab a top 4 finish, get hot at the right time and it's more than a fantasy that it could be ours for the taking. I guess what I'm saying is I don't see any single answer that would put us over the top.
 

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The biggest thing I've seen so far is the word "if". If we avoid injury, if players who were injured/out return to near-best form, if young players continue to develop, etc. Virtually no one (outside of their own fan base of course) believes a repeat is in the works for WB, so why NOT us? Grab a top 4 finish, get hot at the right time and it's more than a fantasy that it could be ours for the taking. I guess what I'm saying is I don't see any single answer that would put us over the top.
The Bulldogs did throw a lot 'ifs' and 'maybes' into premiership discussions
 
Due to our method, Our recipe does not rely on individual ingredients.

We just have to get the timing right.
The team did play pretty well against the cats, but couldn't land the killer punch—which is something they did over and over again pre-2016. Same with the Dogs game, dodgy free kicks just before half-time aside, they should have twisted the knife. The potency just wasn't there I guess.
 
Time.
A young midfield/engine room is taking shape and will need time to gel and gain the understanding of each other. This year is a bit of an unknown for us in this regard and arguably the weakest part of our line up due to the inexperience and the great unknown. Mitchell is a proven mid but then you have O'Meara who will be eased into the season and heavily monitored, Lovell who is still raw but will be pushing for selection, Stewart in the same boat as well as Howe and O'Rourke all trying to forge a spot in the side. If we can't find a ball winning mid in Lovell or O'Rourke then that'll be the missing ingredient but until we hit the field its very much a case of wait and see.
 
Jun 28, 2013
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Time.
A young midfield/engine room is taking shape and will need time to gel and gain the understanding of each other. This year is a bit of an unknown for us in this regard and arguably the weakest part of our line up due to the inexperience and the great unknown. Mitchell is a proven mid but then you have O'Meara who will be eased into the season and heavily monitored, Lovell who is still raw but will be pushing for selection, Stewart in the same boat as well as Howe and O'Rourke all trying to forge a spot in the side. If we can't find a ball winning mid in Lovell or O'Rourke then that'll be the missing ingredient but until we hit the field its very much a case of wait and see.
I want it NOW Daddy
 

flinchfree

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I think we're missing a little 'angry'.
A little 'tude.
With Gibbo getting to fewer packs to smash and fist clear, with Hodge getting to fewer contests to burst and direct the momentum, no Lewis to leave you sore with an exquisitely timed shoulder, without Mitch's moving parts creating spaces for himself to earn the ball, we are probably short on requisite angry to help sustain sweet moving elite football.
Our success in the last decade has always needed the right spice to go with skill.

Not sure which players in the organization aside Sicily going forward will give it to us.
 
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JoeHawk

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Time.
A young midfield/engine room is taking shape and will need time to gel and gain the understanding of each other. This year is a bit of an unknown for us in this regard and arguably the weakest part of our line up due to the inexperience and the great unknown. Mitchell is a proven mid but then you have O'Meara who will be eased into the season and heavily monitored, Lovell who is still raw but will be pushing for selection, Stewart in the same boat as well as Howe and O'Rourke all trying to forge a spot in the side. If we can't find a ball winning mid in Lovell or O'Rourke then that'll be the missing ingredient but until we hit the field its very much a case of wait and see.
Add Whitecross in the mix. He was terrific in the finals. Only hope he can continue that form
 
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The "missing" ingredients might be here already so Baz Hawk is right. There are a few young players that could step up

That said I worry about our half back line, particularly as Sammy, Hodge and Burgers spent an awful amount of time there in spite as being seen as midfielders principally. I get excited about some new players - even Glass - but think that this line needs a lot of development

I also worry about forwards. At least with the backline there are a few young players on the list. Where is a developing Key Forward? Mitchell Lewis? Surman? When Roughy goes we are in a bit of trouble (as the list currently stands). Key Position Forwards are bloody hard to find so yeah - that'd my concern

I am still happy with how the Hawks are developing and I'm amazed that there still appears to be depth on a few lines. Depth will be, however, a little more challenged even if our young guys step up in the face of retirements.

Anyway - intriguing times and I cannot fault the club so far on their recent list management given we have recently won 4 (!) flags

Edit: Axeman said TOB played forward mainly and looked the goods today. That could change things a bit
 
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I think we're missing a little 'angry'.
A little 'tude.
With Gibbo getting to fewer packs to smash and fist clear, with Hodge getting to fewer contests to burst and direct the momentum, no Lewis to leave you sore with an exquisitely timed shoulder, without Mitch's moving parts creating spaces for himself to earn the ball, we are probably short on requisite angry to help sustain sweet moving elite football.
Our success in the last decade has always needed the right spice to go with skill.

Not sure which players in the organization aside Sicily going forward will give it to us.
Good point actually. We are losing enforcers. Sammy kind of had an anger too. "Keep trying to give me hits and I'll keep kicking your arse with the footy - and a bit of lip for good measure"
 

LuckyHawk

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The "missing" ingredients might be here already so Baz Hawk is right. There are a few young players that could step up

That said I worry about our half back line, particularly as Sammy, Hodge and Burgers spent an awful amount of time there in spite as being seen as midfielders principally. I get excited about some new players - even Glass - but think that this line needs a lot of development
Wouldn't surprise to see O'Brien become a really good half back. He's quick, good in the air and has a go. Played a little down back last year and looked alright.
 
Wouldn't surprise to see O'Brien become a really good half back. He's quick, good in the air and has a go. Played a little down back last year and looked alright.
If he had a bit of angry he'd be a very good player I think
 

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Wouldn't surprise to see O'Brien become a really good half back. He's quick, good in the air and has a go. Played a little down back last year and looked alright.
I don't reckon he has the pace to break lines.
Gibbo replacement, for mine.
 

LuckyHawk

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I don't reckon he has the pace to break lines.
Gibbo replacement, for mine.
Quite possibly but he is a strange one, sometimes he looks quick other times slow. Maybe he hasn't got great acceleration but is well fast enough when he gets going.
 
Without Roughead I wasn't expecting anything much from this season outside qualifying for the finals again. Now that the big legend is back - I still have tempered expectations (as I always do regardless) but I am slightly more bullish than I was and feel that aiming for top 4 isn't out of line. Put simply I don't see that our side has had a net loss over the offseason if we can get JOM fit and ready to go.

Hill is probably the largest loss for mine, which I know is crazy when you consider the other two players who left. Hear me out though. Hill was a great wing player - speed to burn and an absolutely deadly disposal by foot. His delivery to key forwards was just sublime. He suffered a bit this year because we lacked in tall targets and Sicily and Gunston were getting monstered by opposition defenders. Hartung is an adequate replacement for Hill - but he probably has the same deficiencies (defensive side of the game) and doesn't bring any more to the table than Hill did. If Hartung is injured I am not sure the likely replacements (Willsmore or Hendo) will be an overall better player than Hill.

Mitchell and Lewis are big losses - there is no disputing that unless you are mad. However, the upside here is that Lewis was starting to show signs of slowing down and in 2016 had some big disposal games where I felt he didn't do much with the amount of possessions he had. Mitchell is a massive, massive loss. His negatives are far outweighed by his positives. That said - he was becoming a bit of a turnstile in defence and was allowing teams to just saunter through our midfield and put ample pressure on our back six. I think having a younger midfield will only help here. While Tom Mitchell is not remotely as silky - I feel if we can get JOM back to his best by say mid-season then Mitchell and O'Meara will account for the loss of Mitchell and Lewis and with the fresher legs could actually see our midfield improve (big call, I know).

The real key to this season is players plateauing and players declining. Personally, while Gibson and Birchall had slightly disappointing ends to 2016, I don't think either are as cooked as some would suggest. I am hoping a longer off-season will see them both return to where they should be form-wise. I think there are some players who have to show some improvement this year if we are to compete for a flag - namely Duyrea, Hartung and Brand. I feel if those 3 can step up a notch and Birchall and Gibson can get back to 2013-15 form or something close to it - then our side improves dramatically.

The other big thing will be depth. Can Howe, Lovell, Stewart, O'Rourke, O'Brien and Heatherly all be counted on should injuries occur or rotations happen for some of the older players. In 2014 we won a premiership because we had a stellar depth of talent. If we are to be any hope this year, we need to hope our fringe players can make the transition if they are called upon. This is of future importance too if these guys are to start taking over from some of the older players in the coming years.

I am not pencilling us in for a flag in 2017. However, I don't see why we can be somewhat of a chance should things go mostly right for us. I certainly think that top 4 isn't a lofty ambition. I am really excited by what the coming season has to offer - and seeing some of the new guys wearing brown and gold.
 

OzJohnnie

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I don't think we're missing anything. Forward line is dangerous. Backline is solid and athletic. Midfield is full of fresh, new superstar talent.

Some hard work and a bit of luck and I think this squad has the potential.

I think the Hawks will be this year's "surprise" package.
 
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Without Roughead I wasn't expecting anything much from this season outside qualifying for the finals again. Now that the big legend is back - I still have tempered expectations (as I always do regardless) but I am slightly more bullish than I was and feel that aiming for top 4 isn't out of line. Put simply I don't see that our side has had a net loss over the offseason if we can get JOM fit and ready to go.

Hill is probably the largest loss for mine, which I know is crazy when you consider the other two players who left. Hear me out though. Hill was a great wing player - speed to burn and an absolutely deadly disposal by foot. His delivery to key forwards was just sublime. He suffered a bit this year because we lacked in tall targets and Sicily and Gunston were getting monstered by opposition defenders. Hartung is an adequate replacement for Hill - but he probably has the same deficiencies (defensive side of the game) and doesn't bring any more to the table than Hill did. If Hartung is injured I am not sure the likely replacements (Willsmore or Hendo) will be an overall better player than Hill.

Mitchell and Lewis are big losses - there is no disputing that unless you are mad. However, the upside here is that Lewis was starting to show signs of slowing down and in 2016 had some big disposal games where I felt he didn't do much with the amount of possessions he had. Mitchell is a massive, massive loss. His negatives are far outweighed by his positives. That said - he was becoming a bit of a turnstile in defence and was allowing teams to just saunter through our midfield and put ample pressure on our back six. I think having a younger midfield will only help here. While Tom Mitchell is not remotely as silky - I feel if we can get JOM back to his best by say mid-season then Mitchell and O'Meara will account for the loss of Mitchell and Lewis and with the fresher legs could actually see our midfield improve (big call, I know).

The real key to this season is players plateauing and players declining. Personally, while Gibson and Birchall had slightly disappointing ends to 2016, I don't think either are as cooked as some would suggest. I am hoping a longer off-season will see them both return to where they should be form-wise. I think there are some players who have to show some improvement this year if we are to compete for a flag - namely Duyrea, Hartung and Brand. I feel if those 3 can step up a notch and Birchall and Gibson can get back to 2013-15 form or something close to it - then our side improves dramatically.

The other big thing will be depth. Can Howe, Lovell, Stewart, O'Rourke, O'Brien and Heatherly all be counted on should injuries occur or rotations happen for some of the older players. In 2014 we won a premiership because we had a stellar depth of talent. If we are to be any hope this year, we need to hope our fringe players can make the transition if they are called upon. This is of future importance too if these guys are to start taking over from some of the older players in the coming years.

I am not pencilling us in for a flag in 2017. However, I don't see why we can be somewhat of a chance should things go mostly right for us. I certainly think that top 4 isn't a lofty ambition. I am really excited by what the coming season has to offer - and seeing some of the new guys wearing brown and gold.
Nice post and I agree that we certainly looked a better team when Hill was
(a) fit and;
(b) actually playing

Whilst we replaced Hill with Henderson it's hard to say that's not a downgrade.

At least with Jordo and Sammy we have brought in JOMTOM
 

atlas1

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The only deficiency is an experienced key back to help out Frawley, and maybe a depth ruck. A key defender that can win the ball from his opponent like Lake used to. I'm hoping Brand can really come on this year and play this role. This frees up Gibson and Stratton to do what they do best.

Otherwise, we have all the tools required to win a flag. Should Roughy play most or all of 2017, our forward line will be impossible to match up on. Using Roughy and Vickery as our talls, Gunston and Sicily as the mediums, then Breust, Rioli and Poppy as the smalls. Schoey is handy depth to have up forward.

The midfield will take care of itself. As mentioned in the training thread by a few posters, Tom Mitchell has gone relatively under the radar so far. I expect this bloke to essentially go apeshit and we'll see how good he really is. Shiels, Jaeger, Whitecross, O'Rourke and Langford are there to help Tom out in the trenches. Smith, Hartung and Henderson will provide the outside run.

We have the experienced heads in Hodge and Burgoyne to lead us in the big, key moments.

We have the relatively unknown kids who could come out of the blue - Burton, O'Brien, Stewart, Howe, Pittonet, Lovell.

We have the best skills in the competition.

We have the best coach in the competition.

There's no reason why we can't give it a bloody good shake this year.
 

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