Whats with all these unanswered goals every week? Please discuss

[Better Loosen Up]

Every week, opposition sides have been able to get a run on against us and kick 6 or more goals in a quarter, mostly unanswered. Hell, even GC and GWS managed to do it.

I heard Swallow on SEN last week talking about the end of the Port game and without being able to quote word for word the general gist of what he was saying is that the guys were too slow to re-act when Port got a run on against us and were unable to change the momentum.

So this suggests that the problem was obviously identified and discussed last week as expected yet we allow the same thing to happen against Brisbane on the weekend Are we really that daft?

Is it a matter of too many players not knowing what to do in these situations (tempo footy) or just too many players not willing to do anything about it thus leaving it to too few?

Is there no game plan (plan b) in place to change the momentum?

Whatever we think it is, it has to be addressed otherwise we are never going to be a serious contender.

 

[Gen Y]

It's the result of other things... Cart before horse if you try to prevent "teams getting a run on"

 

[Psicosis]

The boys seem to deffinitely become observers, its as though legit s*** themselves once a team gets a bit of momentum, become passengers, do not want to go in as hard as they have been prior, fall asleep, it could be for a number of those reasons. Its about the leadership group, and the more mature players setting an example when our back is against the wall, rather then go missing. It could be a big tackle, hit or goal, which can really shift the momentum and get the boys up and about. I think our midfields inexperience deffinitely has a major contributing factor to our inability to respond to team surges.

Scott can put it on the players as much as he want, but fact is that he has NO plan b. He is one dimensional, and lacks the balls to make big decisions. I like brad and would love him to have a long stint at North Melbourne, but unless he addresses those issues, and quickly, he will be let go.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

We panic. Good sides trust their structures and if the opposition kicks 2-3 in a row, they don't become reactive.

 

[Mav]

Barry Hall and Cam Mooney were talking about it last week on AFL360 and how it was drilled into them at training as what to do. Barry said Roo's was very particular as to what everyone had to do and they practiced it over and over again.

I think we practice it, about as much as our kick-ins!

 

[GarnerSmash]

Scott can put it on the players as much as he want, but fact is that he has NO plan b. He is one dimensional, and lacks the balls to make big decisions. I like brad and would love him to have a long stint at North Melbourne, but unless he addresses those issues, and quickly, he will be let go.

It's not out of stupidity or lack of balls, but by design.

In fact you could argue that not changing things around shows more balls than throwing 5 blokes behind the ball.

As I posted in another thread it's pretty obvious that the coach will not react with a defensive move when teams get a run on. He has set his stall around teaching the players the importance of making the most of their opportunities when they have they ball and that when you **** up you are going to put your team mates down the ground under pressure.

I guess the logic is that eventually they will improve in their efficiency as they become more experienced, fitter, stronger and smarter thus score more and concede less. Bit of a balls and all gamble but by Christ if we do improve our ball use we will become one hell of a dangerous team.

Eventually the coach will need to add a flexible defensive aspect to his coaching I reckon. It could one day mean the difference between winning and loosing a final.

It's risky and it will cause supporters pain at times and TBH I'm not quite sold on the philosophy he is using, but there is a method to the madness out there on game day.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Barry Hall and Cam Mooney were talking about it last week on AFL360 and how it was drilled into them at training as what to do. Barry said Roo's was very particular as to what everyone had to do and they practiced it over and over again.

I think we practice it, about as much as our kick-ins!

And both these guys ended up playing in premierships, funny that.

I can't believe we would be stupid enough not to have some sort of plan b?

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

It's not out of stupidity or lack of balls, but by design.

In fact you could argue that not changing things around shows more balls than throwing 5 blokes behind the ball.

As I posted in another thread it's pretty obvious that the coach will not react with a defensive move when teams get a run on. He has set his stall around teaching the players the importance of making the most of their opportunities when they have they ball and that when you **** up you are going to put your team mates down the ground under pressure.

I guess the logic is that eventually they will improve in their efficiency as they become more experienced, fitter, stronger and smarter thus score more and concede less. Bit of a balls and all gamble but by Christ if we do improve our ball use we will become one hell of a dangerous team.

Eventually the coach will need to add a flexible defensive aspect to his coaching I reckon. It could one day mean the difference between winning and loosing a final.

It's risky and it will cause supporters pain at times and TBH I'm not quite sold on the philosophy he is using, but there is a method to the madness out there on game day.

That's pretty much my take on it too. It is ballsy, because if we continue to lose games the calls for Scott's head will become louder and louder and he might find himself out on his ear, while a new coach comes along (a la Hird at Essendon) and capitalises on the work he put in during these years. The obvious way out is to make the defensive moves to staunch the losses, get wins on the board that way and scrape into the finals. Whether this gets us where we want to be in the long term is another matter.

The other consideration is the fact that there will come a point when greater accountability, and the use of Plan Bs has to be incorporated into the game plan. I worry about how this will be handled, it would be lovely if it was seamless and suddenly we were a more complete team, but the reality is that there could be a few weeks of teething problems. So when does this happen? I can't imagine you want to be doing it in Round 21 if you're likely to play finals, you want it well and truly bedded down and predictable by that point. My guess would be there is no definite timeline and Scott will make the assessment when he believes the team is ready.

 

[Mixed Results]

Breaking News: A Young Midfield can't put on midfield pressure for a whole game.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

And both these guys ended up playing in premierships, funny that.

I can't believe we would be stupid enough not to have some sort of plan b?

I thought the point was that they practiced and drilled so plan A always worked?

 

[GarnerSmash]

The other consideration is the fact that there will come a point when greater accountability, and the use of Plan Bs has to be incorporated into the game plan. I worry about how this will be handled, it would be lovely if it was seamless and suddenly we were a more complete team, but the reality is that there could be a few weeks of teething problems. So when does this happen? I can't imagine you want to be doing it in Round 21 if you're likely to play finals, you want it well and truly bedded down and predictable by that point. My guess would be there is no definite timeline and Scott will make the assessment when he believes the team is ready.

Everything Scott has done to date points to this flexibility being incorporated over the course of a pre-season. Much like each of the years he has been in charge we have seen variations to the way we have played I'd expect therefor the same to occur and most likely from next year on.

I feel that Scott reckons that having a team that is capable of controlling the ebb and flow of a game or even capably reacting to a change of momentum is the bare minimum requirement of a successful team. I reckon he thinks that there is no point in hiding behind defensive structures if long term you cannot rely on the personnel to step up one on one and collectively when required. I reckon this is the phase when he is figuring out if the talent he has at his disposal will be enough to do that. If he has then I'd expect he will tinker as little as possible and only when necessary, much like Mark Thompson and less like Ross Lyon but that the variations will be bedded down over the course of pre-season training.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

I thought the point was that they practiced and drilled so plan A always worked?

It always will.....except when we have to play other teams.

Seriously, I want to see SOME defensive mechanisms to our gameplan.

 

[theduckfan]

Breaking News: A Young Midfield can't put on midfield pressure for a whole game.

Correct.

 

[Mav]

I thought the point was that they practiced and drilled so plan A always worked?

no, they practiced how to shut down and close out a game. Plan A is to score, plan B is to not let them score. very different plans

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Breaking News: A Young Midfield can't put on midfield pressure for a whole game.

Yeah this whole "young" excuse is starting to wear a little thin personally. Especially when you see the likes of Beams, Sidebottom etc getting 30+ possessions every week.

 

[Twinkletoes]

Especially when you see the likes of Beams, Sidebottom etc getting 30+ possessions every week.

Who've played 67 and 70 games respectively though, including a premiership surrounded by a team of experienced guns.

We have far more players well under the 50 game mark, unfortunately for today's 4 qtr expectations.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Yeah this whole "young" excuse is starting to wear a little thin personally. Especially when you see the likes of Beams, Sidebottom etc getting 30+ possessions every week.

Dayne Beams has had 9 30+ possie games.

Four have been in 2012
Three have been in 2011
One each in 2009 and 2010.

His first was in his 14th game, his second in his 31st game and they were against Richmond and West Coast (the year they won the spoon). The next came in his 53rd game, and it was at this point that he started to put in consistently high possession games.

Sidebottom has only had 3 games where he has accumulated 30+ disposals - his last three! Which, by the way were games number 68, 69 (magic number, not surprisingly his highest possession game), and 70.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

So in 20 games time, Ziebell and Bastinac will be doing the same.

Awesome


...... Forgive me for not holding my breath

 

[Event Horizon]

Against Port, IMO we simply had to cause more stoppages and make sure we have enough numbers around the ball to stop it getting out into the open, with just minutes left. We didn't do it.

Against Brisbane Petrie did ask the coach by waving to the box, whether he should go back, and must have got a yes answer. Not sure how much that helped.

In both of those quarters we actually started them well enough, and then the momentum swang suddenly. In the Brisbane game when it happened, Goldy was off the ground. By the time he came back on, we had 3 or 4 goals kicked against us in a matter of minutes. Not sure whether that was a factor or not.

But as I said in another thread, when these momentum shifts happen, it seems everything is falling apart. Even the umpires start to pay all the 50/50s to the opposition. In yesterday's game we had a HTB free kick to us, but the umpire paid advantage, which caused the turn over and a goal.

When it happens mid game, I think the best way to stop it is NOT to become too defensive, but to in fact kick a goal against the flow. It's all about winning the footy inside, and having the structures in place when the ball is kicked forward. Dropping people back only hinders our ability to score, thus putting more pressure on us when the ball keeps coming back all the time.

 

[Mixed Results]

So in 20 games time, Ziebell and Bastinac will be doing the same.

Awesome


...... Forgive me for not holding my breath

If by then they have stayed injury free and developed AFL tanks then yes

switch Beams's tank with Ziebells and it'd make Beams look like a spud

We play a high paced running gameplan, If you are expecting all of our midfielders to play consistently atm then you will inevitably be disappointed

 

[Mixed Results]

Also I think against Brisbane we saw to an extent our Damage control although it took way too long, about 4 goals into their run we slowed the pace to a halt (though fair enough if this was a new wrinkle to the game plan added last week)... This is perhaps the best way of dealing with it, actually I'd suggest we play about 5 minutes of slowed down possesion footy each quarter

 

[Artaxx]

So in 20 games time, Ziebell and Bastinac will be doing the same.

Awesome


...... Forgive me for not holding my breath

If they could loan us Thomas, Swan and Pendles, I reckon our young blokes might have abetter chance than right now.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

If by then they have stayed injury free and developed AFL tanks then yes

switch Beams's tank with Ziebells and it'd make Beams look like a spud

We play a high paced running gameplan, If you are expecting all of our midfielders to play consistently atm then you will inevitably be disappointed

Sounds like a bit of a square peg/ round hole type gameplan. Maybe that might have something to do with why we have all these goals kicked against us all the time?

 

[Passmore]

We panic. Good sides trust their structures and if the opposition kicks 2-3 in a row, they don't become reactive.

We do indeed, you could feel the panic amongst the palyers on Sunday. 3/4 time couldn't come quickly enough.

Hopefully this comes with experience.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

If they could loan us Thomas, Swan and Pendles, I reckon our young blokes might have abetter chance than right now.

Thomas is good but not great. Swan wasn't playing on the weekend.

And besides, Harvey and Wells are copping the tags for us every week just like Pendles and Swan do.

Doesn't matter who your team mates are, if your not prepared to work harder than the next bloke to get the footy, ya not gunna get it.