What's wrong with the Bendigo Pioneers?

[wallycleaver]

I newitt would be a problem with half the team quitting or having been cut from the team for reasons other then their footy abililty!!!! can anyone help the pioneers? I NEWITT.

Could you expand on your cryptic post?

 

[Schnail73]

I newitt would be a problem with half the team quitting or having been cut from the team for reasons other then their footy abililty!!!! can anyone help the pioneers? I NEWITT.

There are at least 3 footballers who would/should play with the Pioneers this year who won't, 2 being initial 2012 Vic Country squad members. Looking at the list that played in the practice match on sunday, they really need those three back to be competitive. Won't happen though, disharmony omongst the groups and a couple more possibly walking out and back to home clubs before too long. There are 1 or 2 kids that have moved to Bendigo from country vic on the advice of the coach and appear to be out of favour already. Not a good start to 2012, we all hoped it would be better....

 

[footyman]

As nice as it is to pot the Pioneers, the attitude of the kids up there leaves a lot to be desired as well. All gets a bit too hard and they sulk and quit?

Extra training? Geez, if they want to get drafted and play AFL they'll be expected to train their backsides off six days a week, rain, hail or shine. I reckon kids in Central Victoria are just lazy, that's the real issue. Footy seems to mean more to kids around the O&M/GVFL, and it seems to mean more to kids in the Wimmera, and kids down around Warrnambool.

Pioneers program has been a disaster for quite a few years, like many I hoped a new coach might change things but it sounds like his demands for a bit of professionalism has just made things even worse.

 

[Schnail73]

As nice as it is to pot the Pioneers, the attitude of the kids up there leaves a lot to be desired as well. All gets a bit too hard and they sulk and quit?

Extra training? Geez, if they want to get drafted and play AFL they'll be expected to train their backsides off six days a week, rain, hail or shine. I reckon kids in Central Victoria are just lazy, that's the real issue. Footy seems to mean more to kids around the O&M/GVFL, and it seems to mean more to kids in the Wimmera, and kids down around Warrnambool.

Pioneers program has been a disaster for quite a few years, like many I hoped a new coach might change things but it sounds like his demands for a bit of professionalism has just made things even worse.

I believe that a couple of kids were told to discontinue an extra training program that may have been interfering with the coaching direction, as opposed to being lazy or not doing enough....
On the positive, a game plan appears to be identifyable when watching the pioneers on Sunday, the round 1 side is still to be picked.
No one sulked and quit, there are some players who didnt warm to the new coaches regime and disciplines and they are no longer there. I believe Koe Ngawati and Braeden Knox just wanted to play footy, free of the pressure of the TAC Cup environment, Collins and Filo were doing the extra training and told to stop, Hird was working, Valentine got an opportunity at the Nth Ballarat Roosters (so did one Nick Maxwell back in the day if I recall) after a couple of years in the TAC system with the Pioneers..
The TAC Cup system is not for everyone, especially when as a second year player there is change in the clubs coach/direction. Dave Newitt is full time, something the Pioneers have not had in the past. It must be better for the club and players in the long term, for those who WANT to be there and follow his lead....
Individuals have their own expectations, coaches and players, if they end up on the same page all good, if not, then move on and find a page where you fit...

 

[Vanderhum]

I believe that a couple of kids were told to discontinue an extra training program that may have been interfering with the coaching direction, as opposed to being lazy or not doing enough....
On the positive, a game plan appears to be identifyable when watching the pioneers on Sunday, the round 1 side is still to be picked.
No one sulked and quit, there are some players who didnt warm to the new coaches regime and disciplines and they are no longer there. I believe Koe Ngawati and Braeden Knox just wanted to play footy, free of the pressure of the TAC Cup environment, Collins and Filo were doing the extra training and told to stop, Hird was working, Valentine got an opportunity at the Nth Ballarat Roosters (so did one Nick Maxwell back in the day if I recall) after a couple of years in the TAC system with the Pioneers..
The TAC Cup system is not for everyone, especially when as a second year player there is change in the clubs coach/direction. Dave Newitt is full time, something the Pioneers have not had in the past. It must be better for the club and players in the long term, for those who WANT to be there and follow his lead....
Individuals have their own expectations, coaches and players, if they end up on the same page all good, if not, then move on and find a page where you fit...

Not sure what the story would be with a coach telling players not to do extra training, that seems absurd, if that's the case then fitness could never be a concern. The game plan does look a lot tighter than previous years and you could certainly see some structure with hitting targets as they moved forward. Something missing from previous years. Heard that the game one players are all non starters in round one. Bit of surprise given Mee from Sunraysia would be in the top ten at the club.

 

[Bruiser1969]

There are at least 3 footballers who would/should play with the Pioneers this year who won't, 2 being initial 2012 Vic Country squad members. Looking at the list that played in the practice match on sunday, they really need those three back to be competitive. Won't happen though, disharmony omongst the groups and a couple more possibly walking out and back to home clubs before too long. There are 1 or 2 kids that have moved to Bendigo from country vic on the advice of the coach and appear to be out of favour already. Not a good start to 2012, we all hoped it would be better....

From what I have been told Knox just wants to play local (talented but not committed) and filo and collins apparentley were warned to follow the new coaches training program but didnt and refused to in front of the whole playing group.
My son was also cut this season, not ready and hopefully will get another chance next year.
Just from my expert behind the fence opinion these 3 boys were part of the problem with a bloke they call the pied piper Clarke.
I doubt the new coach would have told the kids who moved into bendigo they were certainties to play all year, fair chance they are just not in the best 22.
I really hope they can perform and do well, the kids they have at the moment that i know through my son are all great kids!!!

 

[Bruiser1969]

As nice as it is to pot the Pioneers, the attitude of the kids up there leaves a lot to be desired as well. All gets a bit too hard and they sulk and quit?

Extra training? Geez, if they want to get drafted and play AFL they'll be expected to train their backsides off six days a week, rain, hail or shine. I reckon kids in Central Victoria are just lazy, that's the real issue. Footy seems to mean more to kids around the O&M/GVFL, and it seems to mean more to kids in the Wimmera, and kids down around Warrnambool.

Pioneers program has been a disaster for quite a few years, like many I hoped a new coach might change things but it sounds like his demands for a bit of professionalism has just made things even worse.

Not all the kids are lazy and non committal, i think it is just a select few that have not and will not follow the new coaches instructions and back his knowledge of training and game style. (he was at two afl clubs as a development coach).

The select few have been training with the pied piper darren clarke who from what i have been told has no qualifications or experience in coaching or training kids at any level - i am not sure he even has his working with childrens check??

My son missed the cut but has been through the system with players who have trainind with this person. It is a real shame that these players are training with this person and not listening to a coach with AFL experience. I dont even think this person has played football before?

 

[Bruiser1969]

Not sure what the story would be with a coach telling players not to do extra training, that seems absurd, if that's the case then fitness could never be a concern. The game plan does look a lot tighter than previous years and you could certainly see some structure with hitting targets as they moved forward. Something missing from previous years. Heard that the game one players are all non starters in round one. Bit of surprise given Mee from Sunraysia would be in the top ten at the club.

I think the extra training by a select few was causing more harm than good with players who attended training with the pied piper darren clarke coming to pioneers training too sore to train or injured.
The coach cut my son as he was not up to it this year, obviously i am disappointed but you have to listen to the people who know the business. I think parents these days are so focussed on the chance of their sons getting drafted and making the big $$$ that they forget why kids play the game in the first place... to enjoy it!!!
I only saw one game Mee played and followed him because of the big wraps on his ability. He played well and found the footy off half back but seemed to butcher the ball going forward! Maybe the forwards were not doing game plan stuff hence noone to kick to... not sure!

 

[Schnail73]

I think the extra training by a select few was causing more harm than good with players who attended training with the pied piper darren clarke coming to pioneers training too sore to train or injured.
The coach cut my son as he was not up to it this year, obviously i am disappointed but you have to listen to the people who know the business. I think parents these days are so focussed on the chance of their sons getting drafted and making the big $$$ that they forget why kids play the game in the first place... to enjoy it!!!
I only saw one game Mee played and followed him because of the big wraps on his ability. He played well and found the footy off half back but seemed to butcher the ball going forward! Maybe the forwards were not doing game plan stuff hence noone to kick to... not sure!

Cannot agree more Bruiser, there is a reason the appointment of Dave Newitt was made, the Pioneers program has been less than fruitful for many years, they need to become more competitive accross the ground, and they need to follow a game structure. The coach writes and delivers the plan/process, the players execute this to the best of their ability. If they wont listen to him during preseason when developing the plan, how does he expect them to listen and follow during the coarse of the year?
4 percent of all footballers play at the elite level, not everyone will make it.....
Nick Mee has good ability, finds plenty of the ball, but his disposal by foot can let him down at times. e should get better as the year rolls on. The backline seems a good place for him.....
I hope this year this thread can be closed, redundant due to the improvement of the Pioneers, only time will tell....

 

[Magpie 1970]

will be an interesting year for the Pioneer coaching staff. Newitt certainly has upset alot of parents and players.
It is interesting to note that when going through the TAC website the PLAYER SUPPORT is all about depression in youth, life line, etc....the way kids have been treated by the pioneers this year...they would want to have alot of supports in place.
Alot of individual rules for some and not others.
Darren Clarke has been a huge support and mentor for many children. Last year's coach requested a number of kids to pick up their fitness and attend Clarke's training sessions. Darren has had some amazing stories and turned a number of kids around. Stringer inparticular.
Parents were not informed of any issues with this training. As you all have stated extra training is good.
Kids in schools were forced to attend BSHS to keep together. Those that were cut and attending other schools are now treated as outcasts and not spoken to by previous squad members.
I can fully understand why a large number of parents would like to see this year investigated and .....why the hell can Ray Byrne hold his position when NO ONE can say a kind word about him./??? The AFL are obviously looking to bolster the Pioneers and work closely with the Bendigo high school squad as the newitt is involved there also....however at what expense to those who aren't in the click.
there are a large number of kids that have pulled out already. Hird actually walked off the track after telling the coaching staff to get f&^%ed and that they were a bunch of peanuts.
There is alot to be answered by the current coaching staff and they certainly have not got off to a good start with the weekend's results....embarrassing to say the least.
Does anyone have a copy of the constitution for which the pioneers work from. There is a HUGE amount of parents that are ready to dissect this.
I AM SO SORRY TO SAY THAT THIS THREAD IS HERE TO SAY AND LOOK FORWARD TO ANY COMMENTS THAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE ON THIS MAJOR ISSUE WITH JUNIOR DEVELOPMENT OF CHILDREN
ONCE AGAIN...THE ONLY PLAYER SUPPORT ON THE TAC WEBSITE IS FOR MENTAL HEALTH....WHAT IS THAT TELLING YOU....

 

[Magpie 1970]

not sure what the story would be with a coach telling players not to do extra training, that seems absurd, if that's the case then fitness could never be a concern. The game plan does look a lot tighter than previous years and you could certainly see some structure with hitting targets as they moved forward. Something missing from previous years. Heard that the game one players are all non starters in round one. Bit of surprise given mee from sunraysia would be in the top ten at the club.

ultimately, the extra training is upto each invidual. What do the players do that live away from bendigo on off nights?? I believe there maybe some political in house jealousy happening and those two boys are used as pawns on a chess board. Kids sacrifice alot to get to that level and not a good thing to happen

 

[Humble Minion]

As you all have stated extra training is good.

I have no inside knowledge of the Pios whatsoever, so I've got no dog in this fight, but the above is simply not true. It's not as simple as that. For kids in particular, overtraining poses some very real injury risks (OP being the most obvious), and I certainly would understand the Pios wanting their kids to stick to their fitness program and not be doubling up working with someone else outside the club.

 

[footyman]

.....why the hell can Ray Byrne hold his position when NO ONE can say a kind word about him./???

Region Managers are untouchable. It's a job for life, nobody seems to assess their performance. The Pioneers program has been fail after fail after fail since about 2001 so I'd have thought somebody at the Pioneers would have run out of lives by now!

However, kids need to listen to what their coaches and their club is telling them. I know at 17 kids like to think they know everything but maybe they're just as wrong as the club? All those quitters have done is reduced their chance of being drafted into the AFL - and I'd have thought thats most kids dream.

 

[Bruiser1969]

Darren Clarke has been a huge support and mentor for many children. Last year's coach requested a number of kids to pick up their fitness and attend Clarke's training sessions. Darren has had some amazing stories and turned a number of kids around. Stringer inparticular.

Not sure where you are getting your information from but I asked my son and he said Jake Stringer wont have anything to do with the Pied Piper.

I cant see where you are coming from?
The new coach has come from the afl - isnt that where all the boys are striving to get to? Wouldnt it be a good idea to do what he says?

I get the feeling its sour grapes on your behalf, perhaps you are the issue your son or nephew or whoever was not up to the standard, you put too much pressure on him!

Reading your statment has now made me feel great on how I handled my son missing the cut.

 

[Schnail73]

Darren Clarke has been a huge support and mentor for many children. Last year's coach requested a number of kids to pick up their fitness and attend Clarke's training sessions. Darren has had some amazing stories and turned a number of kids around. Stringer inparticular.

Not sure where you are getting your information from but I asked my son and he said Jake Stringer wont have anything to do with the Pied Piper.

I cant see where you are coming from?
The new coach has come from the afl - isnt that where all the boys are striving to get to? Wouldnt it be a good idea to do what he says?

I get the feeling its sour grapes on your behalf, perhaps you are the issue your son or nephew or whoever was not up to the standard, you put too much pressure on him!

Reading your statment has now made me feel great on how I handled my son missing the cut.

I cannot see why people are getting upset about this. The TAC system is not the be all and end all of a football career. The Bendigo Football League is one of the top 3 leagues in country Victoria. The kids in the Pioneers system or on the fringe would be playing high class of footy outside the TAC system. Jordan Collins and Braedan Knox are playing good footy at Golden Square, these two would be shoe ins fr the Pioneers. They chose to play BFL because it suited them.....end of story.
Kids from outta town that move to Bendigo cannot be assured that week in, week out they will make the 22. 45 cannot play every week, its still early in the year and there will be many changes throughout the season as the coaching staff get to understand the players and their abilities more.
Everyone at some stage of their lives these kids are going to miss a cut in something or other. As a parent, all you can do is support them and mind their backs. All of the 130+ kids that made the initial list should be proud that they were identified as talented footballers, that does not end if they are not selected in a team for the Pioneers.

Its an elite sport at the Pio's level, not just the ability to play but how you respond to knock backs/criticism/instruction/leadership. Its gotta come from the kids, not the parents. Parents can support and give guidance but the drive has gotta come from the player. Many who are in the squad this year missed out last year. Ben Lester is a good example of this. Missed out last year alltogether, made the list this year and played quite well round 1. Good on him.......

It's still gonna be a long year for the BPFC though.....

 

[Magpie 1970]

Darren Clarke has been a huge support and mentor for many children. Last year's coach requested a number of kids to pick up their fitness and attend Clarke's training sessions. Darren has had some amazing stories and turned a number of kids around. Stringer inparticular.

Not sure where you are getting your information from but I asked my son and he said Jake Stringer wont have anything to do with the Pied Piper.

I cant see where you are coming from?
The new coach has come from the afl - isnt that where all the boys are striving to get to? Wouldnt it be a good idea to do what he says?

I get the feeling its sour grapes on your behalf, perhaps you are the issue your son or nephew or whoever was not up to the standard, you put too much pressure on him!

Reading your statment has now made me feel great on how I handled my son missing the cut.

stringer spent all last year and pre season with Darren Clarke. As per instructions by last years coach. Stringer followed the coach's instructions(one on one private instructions by Newitt) and didn't go out there again EVEN though if it wasn't for Darren Clarke he probablly wouldn't be where he is today. Some kids were getting tired however alot of the boys were blossomng from this extra training as last years coach implemented. Kids as they are growing, are like cars...you have to learn how to drive them as they are all individual and do what will give them the best economy for the best value !!! bit of light comedy .. Once again, alot of inhouse jealousy politics between Newitt and Clarke, the kids were used as pawns which is very sad. The couldn't get rid of stringer so they went to him as an indivdual and warned him.

No sour grapes just want to see what the kids of the past and expecially this year go through changed in some way. The way that the kids are treated is not right HENCE the only player support on the TAC website is for depression.....what is the TAC really supporting???

Alot of untouchable disliked ego trippers with a job that they are justifying. Any wonder a number of families are banding together to have this year investigated

 

[Bruiser1969]

stringer spent all last year and pre season with Darren Clarke. As per instructions by last years coach. Stringer followed the coach's instructions(one on one private instructions by Newitt) and didn't go out there again EVEN though if it wasn't for Darren Clarke he probablly wouldn't be where he is today. Some kids were getting tired however alot of the boys were blossomng from this extra training as last years coach implemented. Kids as they are growing, are like cars...you have to learn how to drive them as they are all individual and do what will give them the best economy for the best value !!! bit of light comedy .. Once again, alot of inhouse jealousy politics between Newitt and Clarke, the kids were used as pawns which is very sad. The couldn't get rid of stringer so they went to him as an indivdual and warned him.

No sour grapes just want to see what the kids of the past and expecially this year go through changed in some way. The way that the kids are treated is not right HENCE the only player support on the TAC website is for depression.....what is the TAC really supporting???

Alot of untouchable disliked ego trippers with a job that they are justifying. Any wonder a number of families are banding together to have this year investigated

Clearly from reading your reply you are by far uneducated in this field... It really does sound
like you may need to take a step back and stop embarrassing yourself!

 

[bradrowe#32]

The Bendigo Football League is one of the top 3 leagues in country Victoria.

No, it's not. It's ranked 7th in the state.

 

[Magpie 1970]

Clearly from reading your reply you are by far uneducated in this field... It really does sound
like you may need to take a step back and stop embarrassing yourself!

far from it bruiser, a very well educated person, been around football a long time.. Have an extremely good understanding of politic within the football regime. Not embarrassing myself my friend, just stating the facts of what has happened and are true as i write.
cheers

 

[Bruiser1969]

far from it bruiser, a very well educated person, been around football a long time.. Have an extremely good understanding of politic within the football regime. Not embarrassing myself my friend, just stating the facts of what has happened and are true as

My knowledge is not that good but im sure your not just refering to your country football experiences magpie? I would think that would be like a bail bondsman discussing taxation law at the high court of australia. i have asked around the bendigo district about this imfamous clarke character, he was an ex bouncer and boxer which explains his punch drunk knowledge of football.

 

[Schnail73]

far from it bruiser, a very well educated person, been around football a long time.. Have an extremely good understanding of politic within the football regime. Not embarrassing myself my friend, just stating the facts of what has happened and are true as

My knowledge is not that good but im sure your not just refering to your country football experiences magpie? I would think that would be like a bail bondsman discussing taxation law at the high court of australia. i have asked around the bendigo district about this imfamous clarke character, he was an ex bouncer and boxer which explains his punch drunk knowledge of football.

The infamous Clarke was a boxer, also worked security in the Bendigo region. He also coached junior basketball in the Bendigo area, as well as hockey I believe. What he lacks in the football game knowledge, he makes up for in conditioning young men for the rigors of contact sport, as well as recovery. He has had success in the past with pioneers players including Stringer and Sam Kerridge.
One key point everyone has missed is the Dave Newitt is full time coach of the pioneers. In the past, Mark Ellis was only part time, which led to the involvement of Darren in preparation and development of the players. It's is now the belief and direction of the pioneers staff that this outside help from Darren is no longer required. The benifits of this change in direction from past preparation and development is yet to be seen. Certainly, I don't believe that some players are not as fit as they should be at this part of the season. It's only early though, only time will tell.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

The fact no one can spell Newett's name amuses me.

Pio's don't look too bad this year - they've been willing to give the kids who work their guts off a run and some of them who played the first practice game (like Nick Mee, Harry O'Meara and Jono Lanyon) all took their chances in the 1's.

There's still some passengers though, and they lack big bodied forwards and defenders with speed.

They'll be much stronger when Wines comes back in.

 

[wallycleaver]

Congrats Pios on a great effort Saturday! Have watched you guys the last few weeks Newett has a direction, their form getting better and better.
Perhaps Schnail or beowulf could give everyone a match preci if you were there.
The knowledgable posters who only see four metro teams and Dandenong are very quiet. Perhaps any more than thirty minutes is too far to travel to watch?
Perhaps this thread can be closed. Good Luck for the rest of the year.

 

[Bruiser1969]

Congrats Pios on a great effort Saturday! Have watched you guys the last few weeks Newett has a direction, their form getting better and better.
Perhaps Schnail or beowulf could give everyone a match preci if you were there.
The knowledgable posters who only see four metro teams and Dandenong are very quiet. Perhaps any more than thirty minutes is too far to travel to watch?
Perhaps this thread can be closed. Good Luck for the rest of the year.

Thats great the pioneers have had a win vs oakleigh at oakleigh! Perhaps the new coach actually knows what he is talking about? Great to see that he has the players respect, i think this win will keep a few quiet for a while! Probably best that clarke person goes back to coaching girls basketball and stops hasselling the pioneer players to train with him.

 

[Schnail73]

Congrats Pios on a great effort Saturday! Have watched you guys the last few weeks Newett has a direction, their form getting better and better.
Perhaps Schnail or beowulf could give everyone a match preci if you were there.
The knowledgable posters who only see four metro teams and Dandenong are very quiet. Perhaps any more than thirty minutes is too far to travel to watch?
Perhaps this thread can be closed. Good Luck for the rest of the year.

Effort was right, won the game when the Chargers thought they had control of the game in the last 10 minutes. The Pioneers effort matched and beat the class of the Chargers.
The first half started as scripted, the Chargers moved the ball well through their spread from the stoppages. They were well served by Kristian Jaksch and Sam Collins. Collins must have had at least 5 marks till half time, most of which were in the last line of defense. The Pioneers tried to attack around the boundary but were beaten in the air time and time again.
At times the game played out like a game of high school rugby, stoppage after stoppage with the ball being cleared backwards or sidewards. This eventually played into the Pioneers hands as Sam Heavyside and Liam Byrne got their hands on the ball. Zac May got better around the ground and his confidence grew as he begam to compete with both Chris Prowse and Angus Milham. Pioneer Alex Hywood won his position in the air all day and was probably their best avenue through half forward. Down back, Ben Lester was strong in the last line for the Pioneers, kept his feet and got his hands to the ball when required. Isaiah Miller was good as a rebounding defender, with Nick Mee carrying out the third man up spoiling duties. Still, I think everyone watching (other than the Pioneers staff) believed the Charger machine would kick into gear, run and spread, and roll over the Pioneers.
The last quarter was an arm wrestle, not the way the Chargers would have wanted to play. Stoppage after stoppage, 20 - 30 meter gains and losses, it was ugly at times.....but the Pioneers started to get their hands on the ball first at these stoppages. A sloppy kick out gifted the Chargers a shot at goal, and was converted from the left forward pocket. Chargers 10 points in front with 21.40 on the clock.
Still, the Pioneers never gave up, the stoppages continued and Zac May, Sam Heavyside, Liam Byrne and to a lesser extent Jake Chisari came into their own. If you can get footage of Heavysides' stoppage/tackling work during this game, you'll see the effort required to win contest after contest. He was ruthless in his tackling and the team lifted accordingly.

Dave Newett knew how this game had to be won, and directed the gameplan well. If it came down to skill, height, speed and execution, the Chargers should have won this. He spoke well during the breaks, urging his team to keep contesting. They did this and won....well done.

Its going to be hard in the next few weeks, Vinnie Flood, Jake Stringer and Oliver Wines will come back in and make them stronger. For once in a long time, its a happy problem for the coach. They are not yet in the TAC elite, but they are on the right track. At least this week, its is about whats right with the Pioneers....