Wheel of Time

joelsyt

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Brando Sando's thoughts on the first episode:

Yep, not surprised he had the same issues as book readers, however, there are a lot of non-readers that seem to enjoy the show, so like I said in the show thread, the changes made were probably the right decision to get neutrals over the line.
 

joelsyt

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There’s now a rumour going around that Rafe wanted a 2 hour 1st episode and originally wanted a 10 episode season…if that rumour is true, my god, that would have helped so much with the pacing issues!
 

Hojuman

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SPOILER !

Rand already getting his rocks of with Egwene and Lan in the bathtub with Moraine ep. 1 ?

I don't think so.
 
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Quokka

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Just watched episode one, and I didn't hate it.

I can see lots of changes coming but that's not really a dealbreaker for me, whether it ends up working or not this was always going to be its own thing 'based on the books' rather than a scene by scene adaption and being someone who thinks that the series lost it's way for large parts of the second half I'll give this a chance.

Early days but most of the casting seems a highlight, Rosamund Pike can definitely lead the show and although I wasn't sold on Lan from the still pics I have no doubts now. Rand, Perrin and Matt (love the coat) are fantastic and it will be a real shame if Matt has had to be recast for season 2.

Perrin's wife seems so completely unneeded but as Brandon says above it was shot well at least. It looks like they might lean into Perrin's rage which I never felt was really present in the books, he was slow/deliberate to act because he knew he could hurt someone being so much bigger not because he worried about suppressed anger. Like with Matt's stealing (he's a thief but not a coward so that rang true at least) and Rand and Egwene together they seem to be aging the characters up which is maybe fair enough.

The CGI and sets were ok, although I didn't love the way that weaving was done, and I think in parts both may fall short but that's maybe a sign of how far TV shows have come and how high the standards are now that these felt 'good enough' rather than outstanding.

Just my two cents and looking forward to the next few episodes.
 
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Vader

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The best way to look at it is that it is a different turning of the wheel than the books. That is why there are differences.
Yep... this is the 5th Age - an age long past, an age yet to come. Not the 4th age.

Any resemblance between books & show are purely coincidental, and certainly against the designs of the producers.
 

Quokka

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Forgot to add that with one line they explained why Egwene was included as a possible Dragon Reborn and for me it kind of worked. In a world based so much around reincarnation it didn't seem a stretch to say anyone could be reborn as a male or a female. Even if it is a massive change from the books and raises its own issues, most of which include the prophecies which the show will likely change a lot as well.
 

joelsyt

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Episode titles for episode 7 & 8 were released.

Episode 7 is The dark along the ways and Episode 8 is The Eye of the World.

Also Wheel of Time official Twitter account released a teaser for Episode 4, The Dragon Reborn, it looks so good!

And Rafe Judkins did an AMA regarding Wheel of Time on /r television.

That’s pretty good if you want to have a look, they were nicer than expected on that subreddit.
 

BEaston

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Yep... this is the 5th Age - an age long past, an age yet to come. Not the 4th age.

Any resemblance between books & show are purely coincidental, and certainly against the designs of the producers.
We get your point mate. Are you going to bang on about incessantly in here as you watch along with the rest of us?
 

Vader

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Well that was the biggest pile of steaming horse sh*t since the series began.

The Perrin/Egwene & Rand/Matt/Thom storylines were fine. The latter merged several book events into one, but I can live with that. Matt's slide into darkness is happening faster than it does in the book too, but I can live with that also.

The Moiraine/Lan/Nyneave story though was complete and utter bollocks. None of this happened in the book, and worse they've ripped up Aes Sedai lore and stomped it into the ground, all in the name of a minor battle with bog ordinary special effects. Since when were 7 Aes Sedai enough to still a man? Or 2 to hold a shield on him? Logain's strength in the power is only marginally less than Rand's, so being a "trickle compared to a raging torrent" is just more bullshit.

I can live with them merging events, as they did with Rand/Matt/Thom. God knows the story of their walk to Caemlyn is severely bloated & repetitive in the books, and definitely needed cutting down. At least they were consistent.

As for the other stuff? That's just shitting on the world Jordan created, and the lore that he built into that world.
 

joelsyt

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I actually really liked that episode.

however if that’s how they’re going to portray gentling then my god is it brutal! I think Liandrin did the right thing, but my god do I hate her on so many levels.

Was shocked with the farm incident. Mat was so creepy, I jumped when the Fade showed itself.

The tinker storyline I felt was a bit slow, however they’re a peaceful people so I’m not surprised, I think they’ll probably play a bigger part in the next episode.

Also I hope Rand is far away from The White Tower when it’s obvious he’s started channeling, I want him as far from Liandrin as possible!

Loved Thom in this episode and so glad that they didn’t cut Owyn, that was such a sad story. :(
 

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Perrin with the Tinkers was fine. Aram needed to be more arrogant, not empathetic to Egwene, but the main point of that - Perrin's battle between what he needs to do and what he wants to do starting was covered well.

Rand/Mat/Thom was good, they weren't going to stop in every village like the books. Though skipping Bayle Domon IMO was a mistake, he's a recurring side character throughout the series.

I agree with the Lan/Moraine/Nynaeve part was sh*t. First Moraine would never trust Liandrin. More against the books is Lan talking about Malkier. Obviously Fal Dara and his back story skipped is yet another thing cut, but it should have been Moraine or someone else to tell any of it. Nynaeve healing them all I can live with, she will be the most powerful Aes Sedai and have only a handful in Powe above her. I agree the whole 'The Dragon Reborn will laugh at your pitiful power' was poor. I liked Logain getting some screen time, but it was poorly finished.

Though really, the whole 'the dragon reborn could be him or him or her or him or her, have I mentioned everyone except that Shepherd over there yet? Ignore him.' trying to throw people off, may be going down well with non-book readers, but it's now feeling, IMO, like a running gag flogging a dead horse.
 

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Agree with most of what has been said. I will add what is seeming like a rapid acceleration of Lan and Nynaeve getting together is annoying me.

The stuff with Logain could have been great if you take that stupid battle out of the picture. Or, at least have made it the Trolloc army that caught them.

Also, the greens doing the healing? WTF? Where the frack were the yellows? That did sh*t me.
 

Vader

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Agree with most of what has been said. I will add what is seeming like a rapid acceleration of Lan and Nynaeve getting together is annoying me.

The stuff with Logain could have been great if you take that stupid battle out of the picture. Or, at least have made it the Trolloc army that caught them.

Also, the greens doing the healing? WTF? Where the frack were the yellows? That did sh*t me.
I don't have a problem with the greens doing the healing, given the absence of yellows in the camp. There are many examples of non-yellows doing healing in the books, starting with Moiraine healing the Emonds Field villagers after the Beltine trolloc attack. Non-yellows may not have the same proficiency at healing, but there are plenty of them who do have the "talent" to do it.

More disturbing was the fact that the party sent out to capture Logain contained only reds & greens. In the books, any such party would consist of Aes Sedai from all Ajahs - examples including the group sent out to kidnap Rand, and the group sent to destroy the Black Tower. This is just another example of the producers ignoring the books, though I wouldn't describe it as shitting on the books' lore the way they did in other ways.

My big issues:
  • The number required to hold the shield (6, not 2).
  • The number required to gentle Logain (13, not 7).
  • Gentling Logain without trying him in the White Tower (they even discussed why this was wrong).
  • Logain being able to channel when shielded. Shielded people can sense the One Power, but they can't touch it - and certainly can't channel while shielded. The issue here being what he did to the axes, whilst shielded.
  • This storyline took up 2/3 of the episode, and not one single element of it comes from the books, or is consistent with the books. They only have 8 episodes, and they're trying to get through the whole of the 1st book - so wasting 2/3 of an episode on crap that never happened just pisses me off. Guess what - there aren't 8 big battle scenes in the book, so why do the producers need to shoehorn one into every single episode?
 

joelsyt

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I wish they’d kept the 13 aes sedai needed to shield/gentle/capture Logain, I hated that he was shielded/gentled by so few Aes Sedai, he’s supposed to be more powerful than most modern day channellers, if I remember correctly only the male Forsaken/Rand/Mazrim Taim (maybe?) were more powerful? I know they have to keep Aes Sedai numbers down, but still!

Also, in the books yellows tend to spend most of their time in Tar Avalon, so I get why they’re not there. I’m surprised there weren’t any blue’s, I figured at least one or two blue’s should have been there? The other Ajah’s make sense lore wise for not being there. Though I suppose every blue has their own purpose I guess.
 

Janus

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Well that was the biggest pile of steaming horse sh*t since the series began.

The Perrin/Egwene & Rand/Matt/Thom storylines were fine. The latter merged several book events into one, but I can live with that. Matt's slide into darkness is happening faster than it does in the book too, but I can live with that also.

The Moiraine/Lan/Nyneave story though was complete and utter bollocks. None of this happened in the book, and worse they've ripped up Aes Sedai lore and stomped it into the ground, all in the name of a minor battle with bog ordinary special effects. Since when were 7 Aes Sedai enough to still a man? Or 2 to hold a shield on him? Logain's strength in the power is only marginally less than Rand's, so being a "trickle compared to a raging torrent" is just more bullshit.

I can live with them merging events, as they did with Rand/Matt/Thom. God knows the story of their walk to Caemlyn is severely bloated & repetitive in the books, and definitely needed cutting down. At least they were consistent.

As for the other stuff? That's just shitting on the world Jordan created, and the lore that he built into that world.
It was 8 Aes Sedai, not 7 - with three of the 9 being 3 of the strongest channelers in the White Tower (Moiraine, Liandrin and Alanna). 13 was the number required for any strength level of Aes Sedai, even the weakest, to be able to gentle a man. Rand is cautioned about this (by Cadsuane or Lews Therin, I can't remember who) - that even the 13 weakest Aes Sedai could 'easily' overpower him. So having 8 relatively high powered Aes Sedai (Liandrin, Moiraine et al) gentle Logain doesn't break the lore as far as I'm concerned.

Logain is stated to be a ++2, which means he's weaker than Rand, Moridin, Rahvin (who are all ++1) and on the same level as a number of the other Forsaken.

"You know, I saw a man once who will cause more trouble than I ever did. Maybe it was the Dragon Reborn; I don't know. It was when they took me through Caemlyn after I was captured. He was far away, but I saw a ... a glow, and I knew he'd shake the world. Caged as I was, I couldn't help laughing."

In the Wheel of Time Companion (that Robert Jordan endorsed - he's the one that came up with the power levels), it is stated that "Of note, despite the disparity in maximum strength between the genders, it was possible for a woman at 1(+12) to be a roughly equal match for a man at ++1, as women possessed a greater innate dexterity with weaving than men. However, this relative lack of dexterity could be overcome through practice."

Since Moiraine and Liandrin are rated as 13(1) and 14(2) and have been weaving the One Power for far longer than Logain (++2) has, it doesn't break the lore at all, since they are sharing the burden of shielding him. The Logain that we see at the end of the books would be a completely different story and most likely require 13 Aes Sedai. It's even stated by Kerene (who Cadsuane says was the strongest to visit the White Tower in 600 years) that only she, Liandrin and Alanna (who has a power level of 17(5)) are strong enough to shield Logain in his current state.

As for your point about Logain being able to channel while shielded, it is pretty obvious that the shield isn't yet in place when Logain is attacked, and that he still has access to the One Power in the immediate 'aura' around him.
 

Vader

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It was 8 Aes Sedai, not 7 - with three of the 9 being 3 of the strongest channelers in the White Tower (Moiraine, Liandrin and Alanna). 13 was the number required for any strength level of Aes Sedai, even the weakest, to be able to gentle a man. Rand is cautioned about this (by Cadsuane or Lews Therin, I can't remember who) - that even the 13 weakest Aes Sedai could 'easily' overpower him. So having 8 relatively high powered Aes Sedai (Liandrin, Moiraine et al) gentle Logain doesn't break the lore as far as I'm concerned.

Logain is stated to be a ++2, which means he's weaker than Rand, Moridin, Rahvin (who are all ++1) and on the same level as a number of the other Forsaken.

"You know, I saw a man once who will cause more trouble than I ever did. Maybe it was the Dragon Reborn; I don't know. It was when they took me through Caemlyn after I was captured. He was far away, but I saw a ... a glow, and I knew he'd shake the world. Caged as I was, I couldn't help laughing."

In the Wheel of Time Companion (that Robert Jordan endorsed - he's the one that came up with the power levels), it is stated that "Of note, despite the disparity in maximum strength between the genders, it was possible for a woman at 1(+12) to be a roughly equal match for a man at ++1, as women possessed a greater innate dexterity with weaving than men. However, this relative lack of dexterity could be overcome through practice."

Since Moiraine and Liandrin are rated as 13(1) and 14(2) and have been weaving the One Power for far longer than Logain (++2) has, it doesn't break the lore at all, since they are sharing the burden of shielding him. The Logain that we see at the end of the books would be a completely different story and most likely require 13 Aes Sedai. It's even stated by Kerene (who Cadsuane says was the strongest to visit the White Tower in 600 years) that only she, Liandrin and Alanna (who has a power level of 17(5)) are strong enough to shield Logain in his current state.

As for your point about Logain being able to channel while shielded, it is pretty obvious that the shield isn't yet in place when Logain is attacked, and that he still has access to the One Power in the immediate 'aura' around him.
Whether it's 7 or 8 is immaterial - 13 are required to gentle a male Aes Sedai.

Further, your argument that 13 could overpower him is also immaterial. At Dumai's Wells it required 6 to maintain the shield on Rand, indicating that this is the number required to hold a shield. Having 2 achieve & hold the shield, as shown in the TV show, is ridiculous.

Logain is surrounded by the white mesh. He's shielded... yet he continues to channel inside the shield. That's just plain wrong.
 

Janus

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Whether it's 7 or 8 is immaterial - 13 are required to gentle a male Aes Sedai.

Further, your argument that 13 could overpower him is also immaterial. At Dumai's Wells it required 6 to maintain the shield on Rand, indicating that this is the number required to hold a shield. Having 2 achieve & hold the shield, as shown in the TV show, is ridiculous.

Logain is surrounded by the white mesh. He's shielded... yet he continues to channel inside the shield. That's just plain wrong.
The 13 requirement is simply tradition because they know that 13 will be able to handle any male channeler including the Dragon Reborn. It's not some hard and fast rule.

In the books, neither Alanna, Kerene, Moiraine nor Liandrin were involved in the capture of Logain or Rand. They are using the number of Aes Sedai required to shield as a trope for relative power levels - Logain hasn't reached his maximum ability with the One Power yet, so 2 is enough for him. At the Battle of Dumai's Wells, Rand displays the ability to break through the shield of 3 Aes Sedai (after four of them tie off their weaves and go to help fight and then one returns to help).

Then you've got the fact that by the time Dumai Wells happens, Rand has already established the Ash'a'man, has defeated Rahvin (who is more powerful than Logain) and is able to Travel between two cities. Trying to compare what was required for him to what is required for Logain is crazy.

3 isn't enough to shield Rand. 2 is enough to shield Logain. Logain is not as powerful as Rand even at the height of their powers, let alone a Logain that has only just started to come into his power. What's the problem?[/spolier]
 

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