When can we contend again?

[ydraw]

I think this narrative has gotten a bit out of hand.

A perfectly logical alternative explanation is; Crozier was dropped for Mayne, Simpson was dropped for Fyfe. I presume no one wants to make an argument that Simpson should have played over Fyfe...

Obviously neither decision was wholly independent of the other. However, in the context that Mayne at the time was only 4 games removed from his excellent 2013, and that all indications are that the club (and Ross) viewed Simpson as a mid and Crozier as a forward... I think the alternate explanation is more logical.

Could the club have handled it better? Sure, I think so. But let's not start twisting past events so they suit our particular narrative.

Simpson played as a defensive forward in his debut game. Mayne's role. Then was dropped for Mayne.

 

[Carnthedockers]

Look I think the club is doing the right thing by tanking this year to get the #1 pick - can draft a good tall, and be back in the running next season

#notserious

Does anyone know if it's a strong draft year? Who are we likely to target?

 

[wayToGo_]

Does anyone know if it's a strong draft year? Who are we likely to target?

Will depend a lot on what picks we have. Battle seems best KPF. Strnadica, Goddard are the ones I'm interested in but expect plenty more to join that list as the year progresses.

You can find plenty of info here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/forums/phantom-drafts.284/

The whole weak and strong draft thing continues to disprove itself. Last year was really weak apparently and yet players (not just from the first round) are already stepping up in teams and it's only round 6.

 

[longsuffreosupp]

Gotta pull some rabbits out of the hat come trade week plus getting free agents and using the PSD to lure someone out of contact with some dollars.

 

[Outshined]

As well as the following

traded for
Tarrant in Oct 2006 (still within your decade)
Jack Anthony
Scott Gumbleton. Not a serious recruitment, but worth a try for the price.

ND
Mora was a like for like of Pav, height build and talent.
Tabs
Alex Pearce. We recruited as a defender, but has a history pre-freo as a forward.

Then we have Mr Irish (Hurley). Still needs time, but could be a decent forward.

That's a compendium of failure. Jack Anthony to take the weight off Pav's shoulders...jeeeez

Not a crack at yourself btw, more at our recruiters/list manager.

Pearce was recruited as the long-term McPharlin replacement (a rare moment of insight apparently) and despite the occasional foray forward, is ultimately a defender. Tarrant was useless until we salvaged the situation by turning him into a KPD. Mora's a midfielder, similar dimensions =/= similar talent.

In terms of using draft picks, we've done **** all...and it's now biting us hard. In fact it has been for years, even when we were damn good, our midfielders would often look up and have either no one to kick it too or Pav in a 2 on 1. Costs us a premiership once.

 

[free tara brown]

I'm not sure cutting 14 players or whatever it was at the end of 07 can be classifies as a mini rebuild

On this again - it was a massive turnover, but nothing seriously changed from the structure of the side. Our best ruckman, best key forward and best key defender were the same in 2015 as they were in 2006 when we made our first prelim. And back in 2006 those blokes were younger but they weren't young - Pav for instance had played 150 games by then, and Luke and Sandi weren't far off 100.

 

[Banker]

http://www.watoday.com.au/afl/frema...became-so-bad-so-quickly-20160426-goevqr.html

Pretty good article that has got it spot on with many things.

 

[Carnthedockers]

http://www.watoday.com.au/afl/frema...became-so-bad-so-quickly-20160426-goevqr.html

Pretty good article that has got it spot on with many things.

Belter of an article. Puts everything I feel into words.

 

[Sweetback]

I would love to hear what they're talking about in the board room at the moment.

 

[FreoMonocle]

Sorry, don't buy it. The spine of the side was built over 10 years ago. Our elite key tall assets in the Lyon era were Pav, Sandi, and McPharlin - all recruited to the club between 99-01. Nothing to do with our current recruiters.

Pav was a top 4 pick, Mcpharlin was a top 10 pick (by the hawks). The best pick we've had since Morabito (pick #4 in 2009) was pick #13 (Weller) the rest being 16 to 20, which kinda hamstrings the recruiters ability to build another elite spine. While there are some diamonds in the rough, they're aren't many Pav's out there for pick #13 and beyond.

Looks like we're heading for a wooden spoon, so the recruiters have their chance for an elite tall through draft/trade.

 

[free tara brown]

Pav was a top 4 pick, Mcpharlin was a top 10 pick (by the hawks). The best pick we've had since Morabito (pick #4 in 2009) was pick #13 (Weller) the rest being 16 to 20, which kinda hamstrings the recruiters ability to build another elite spine. While there are some diamonds in the rough, they're aren't many Pav's out there for pick #13 and beyond.

Looks like we're heading for a wooden spoon, so the recruiters have their chance for an elite tall through draft/trade.

Hill was pick 3.

 

[Grape Bear]

Pav was a top 4 pick, Mcpharlin was a top 10 pick (by the hawks). The best pick we've had since Morabito (pick #4 in 2009) was pick #13 (Weller) the rest being 16 to 20, which kinda hamstrings the recruiters ability to build another elite spine. While there are some diamonds in the rough, they're aren't many Pav's out there for pick #13 and beyond.

Looks like we're heading for a wooden spoon, so the recruiters have their chance for an elite tall through draft/trade.

What you say makes sense to some extent, most quality talls are gone by the early second round, most that follow are speculative and need to be grown.

However it can't be denied that our recruiters have been very gun shy or just not very good at picking talls through the draft, even after it was becoming clear that we would struggle to convince established KPP to come across. Missing the two McGoverns was a completes stuff up, for example, father/sons who were picked way below the top half of the draft and are looking the goods. The draft where we picked up Apeness and AP was the only one in recent memory when we went tall. Most of the talls we did pick up (Alex Forster, Faulks) have been delisted. Roberton, who would be pretty handy to have right now, being a Vic boy with a family on the way went back home.

If we backed our culture and development so much, it boggles the mind to a certain extent why we couldn't back ourselves in to develop talls as much as mids. They take time to come on, clearly, but with an eye for quality, had we picked up a gem or two in the rough and polished them up, they would have been close to polished by now and ready to take over.

 

[Freomaniac]

I will state our outlook after the vcrows game. From here on in until Ross Lyon being here in 2020 I have something important to say. But it will be said after the crows game.

 

[free at last]

Pav was a top 4 pick, Mcpharlin was a top 10 pick (by the hawks). The best pick we've had since Morabito (pick #4 in 2009) was pick #13 (Weller) the rest being 16 to 20, which kinda hamstrings the recruiters ability to build another elite spine. While there are some diamonds in the rough, they're aren't many Pav's out there for pick #13 and beyond.

Looks like we're heading for a wooden spoon, so the recruiters have their chance for an elite tall through draft/trade.

so many posters on here wanted the likes of darling,lever etc etc.

If bond had taken time to read what us armchair critics think we could've had lever & Apearce playing down back and darling at least offering a forward target...
*****Not serious about the bond part*****

 

[Grape Bear]

so many posters on here wanted the likes of darling,lever etc etc.

If bond had taken time to read what us armchair critics think we could've had lever & Apearce playing down back and darling at least offering a forward target...
*****Not serious about the bond part*****

No Weller though.

 

[free at last]

No Weller though.

Cheeky

Lever still for me

 

[Grape Bear]

Cheeky

Lever still for me

We're dying for good kicks and good skills and good speed in our midfield group - Weller has all three.

I suspect that we were probably scared off by the knee following our punt on Apeness.

 

[Freomaniac]

Our priority this season is our 1st round pick. We need a gun forward that's a start

 

[Lach72]

On this again - it was a massive turnover, but nothing seriously changed from the structure of the side. Our best ruckman, best key forward and best key defender were the same in 2015 as they were in 2006 when we made our first prelim. And back in 2006 those blokes were younger but they weren't young - Pav for instance had played 150 games by then, and Luke and Sandi weren't far off 100.

Yeah but as it was 9 years ago we didn't need to.
We needed the midfield in fill. Which we got with Hill, Suban, Clarke, Morabito and Fyfe to go with Palmer...the Palmer who won the rising star not the one who blew his knee and slowed down.
It should have been done at the 2010/11 drafts

 

[dominguez]

Quick fixes have stuffed us up since day dot. We should do our first full rebuild IMO.

The difference is that Croad/Carr/Tarrant/etc cost us picks which set us back long term. If we get Hooker as a free agent and McCarthy for a 3rd rounder we've got 2 players into our best 18 for bugger all.

 

[johnnomac]

Yeah but as it was 9 years ago we didn't need to.
We needed the midfield in fill. Which we got with Hill, Suban, Clarke, Morabito and Fyfe to go with Palmer...the Palmer who won the rising star not the one who blew his knee and slowed down.
It should have been done at the 2010/11 drafts

and the same Palmer who in the dying stages of that game against Norf that we had sewn-up went and and broke Barlow's leg.

 

[johnnomac]

The difference is that Croad/Carr/Tarrant/etc cost us picks which set us back long term. If we get Hooker as a free agent and McCarthy for a 3rd rounder we've got 2 players into our best 18 for bugger all.

I've just posted this in the Hooker thread. He's gone. Staying with the Dons (5 year deal).

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Simpson played as a defensive forward in his debut game. Mayne's role. Then was dropped for Mayne.

Not what I recall, he started on the wing and pushed up a bit into the forward line. Literally right in front of my seat, north side near the Subi end 50 arc. We spent most of that quarter in the Essendon D50 if memory serves. In any case he came on as sub and got only a small amount of game time. Authoritatively stating "he played Mayne's role" is speculative at best given the context i've outlined. And frankly blaming the club for the situation is pretty stupid.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

I interpreted the thread as being about when can we next contend, not when can we be competitive. The bulldogs weren't contenders last year (and some would argue weren't in 2010 even though they made a prelim) and the saints aren't this year.

Right, but by that very strict definition you're confining yourself to 3, maybe 4 teams per year as being 'contenders'. Despite the fact there's usually 5-6 teams in the mix for top-4 and often a 5-8 team who pushes up into a prelim. I think that definition is too strict, and I think the different context (i.e. we have 3-4 absolute guns under 25) means we can easily be 'contenders' by even your definition in 3-4 years.

 

[Docker79]

Feel like this is a gap year for Freo...

Still adapting to a new game plan
Horror run of injuries to best 22 players

So positives...
- Chance to get games/experience into our young players to speed up their development
- Really assess our list to determine those who will part of our future and those to move on
- Potential high draft pick, something we haven't had in a while to hopefully draft to our needs or position us to trade for our needs (but not pay overs!)

2017 could be a very quick climb back up the ladder into contention if we address our KPP needs and obviously have a good run without injuries to key personnel eg. Fyfe, Sandi, Bennell...would be surprised if another team had a higher number of best 22 players miss games than us so far this year.