Society/Culture When do we address the gender education gap?

[Lethality]

Since about 1985 there has been a gender education gap in favour of girls, that sees boys behind across the board, from remedial writing and reading, to college graduates. Boys might still do better in math. The other day I saw that even in Afghanistan there is the same roughly 60/40 split in college graduates.

We have managed to address men's health recently, including mental health, and that has been encouraging. But I still can't see anyone really discussing men's education. There have been books here and there written about it, some of which are taking the issue seriously, others are written in a provocative tone. Maybe once I've seen an article or a short discussion about it on TV.

So is it just not considered an issue? Or are we conditioned to seeing women only as needing help and therefore have overlooked this? I find it odd and also infuriating that even with the current state of play I hear more about assisting women in education, i.e. STEM or maths

There are a few reasons that I have read about or considered as to why the gender gap currently exists.

1. Gender bias. Most teachers are women, and supposedly the atmosphere of the classroom and/or the curriculum suits the female brain. I'm not sure how true this is. A recent female AOTY complained that physics was being 'verbalised' to encourage more girls to take an interest, and this has been suggested as a possible contributor in an article or two that I've read in the past.

2. Biology. Girls mature faster, does this extend to brain development? Maybe girls just get smarter earlier, so a Year 11 girl is as advanced as a Year 12 boy. This is just one reason that I thought of on my own.

3. Toxic masculinity. It's not as cool for boys to study as it is for girls.

4. Necessity. Men have societal privileges that might allow them to make a living or survive better without education.

5. History. Women have a history of being subjugated and are thus more motivated to make a go of education to escape that cycle.

6. IQ distribution. While the average IQ is the same, men have more IQ variance. This means more genius level brains, but also more mental *ation.

I'm sure there are other reasons too. What's most concerning for me is that the issue isn't even being discussed or taken seriously in mainstream media.

Thank you.

 

[Kwality]

There is a problem with education standards generally & any specific group within. When we are turning out kids who cant read or add up, its not only men who are suffering.

The education minister wants graduating teachers to be 'classroom-ready'. But the classroom is not what it used to be

During 2020, we saw the traditional classroom all but disappear. We can expect education to face other types of disruption. In an uncertain future, teachers need more than classroom-readiness.

theconversation.com

 

[Gethelred]

There is a problem with education standards generally & any specific group within. When we are turning out kids who cant read or add up, its not only men who are suffering.

The education minister wants graduating teachers to be 'classroom-ready'. But the classroom is not what it used to be

During 2020, we saw the traditional classroom all but disappear. We can expect education to face other types of disruption. In an uncertain future, teachers need more than classroom-readiness.

theconversation.com

I have a question: what's your background to suggest a level of expertise in education standards?

 

[the_interloper]

I believe statistics show there are a lot more female college graduates these days, this has been used as an argument that the gender pay gap is a true example of discrimination.

Of course it doesn't drill down into the types of degrees women typically get and what men typically get, clearly degrees like nursing, primary school teaching, early childhood and even all of those bullshit "gender" degrees don't pay well. STEM is still majority male I assume and they get paid a lot better of course.

As for education not being designed for boys well, yeah I've heard that too. I don't know how true it is except to say it seems it's a lot easier to get girls to sit still as opposed to boys, this seems to be a requirement for education generally.

 

[Lethality]

Good to see Andrew Yang weigh in, maybe he can get this conversation mainstreamed. Addressing boys' education should be in everyone's interest, including the national interest, instead of being seen as a divisive gender issue. It's one way to improve our education ranking in the world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/08/andrew-yang-boys-are-not-all-right/

 

[owen87]

Good to see Andrew Yang weigh in, maybe he can get this conversation mainstreamed. Addressing boys' education should be in everyone's interest, including the national interest, instead of being seen as a divisive gender issue. It's one way to improve our education ranking in the world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/08/andrew-yang-boys-are-not-all-right/

There's very little community interest or support for men's issues as a whole.

 

[Kwality]

Good to see Andrew Yang weigh in, maybe he can get this conversation mainstreamed. Addressing boys' education should be in everyone's interest, including the national interest, instead of being seen as a divisive gender issue. It's one way to improve our education ranking in the world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/08/andrew-yang-boys-are-not-all-right/

How so?
What does Yang bring to the issue?

 

[Lethality]

How so?
What does Yang bring to the issue?

Maybe a higher profile, greater awareness. He introduced a lot of people to the idea of UBI so he could do the same here if he pops up on JRE again.

 

[Kwality]

Maybe a higher profile, greater awareness. He introduced a lot of people to the idea of UBI so he could do the same here if he pops up on JRE again.

Sorry not across UBI or JRE, pls explain the relevance?

 

[Mofra]

This adds to the education discussion on another thread.
Does anyone know exactly why tech secondary schools were closed down? Seems a reasonable option to reintroduce for kids who want to go on and learn a trade.

Some kids are just naturally more 'hands on' and struggle in classroom environments.

 

[Kwality]

This adds to the education discussion on another thread.
Does anyone know exactly why tech secondary schools were closed down? Seems a reasonable option to reintroduce for kids who want to go on and learn a trade.

Some kids are just naturally more 'hands on' and struggle in classroom environments.

Wasnt it a rebranding exercise ? Has it fulfilled its purpose for the kids coming through & the trades that traditionally were the backbone of 'techs'.

The change to TAFE​

Until the 1970s, funding for technical schools was the responsibility of the states, with the Commonwealth Government granting funds during periods of rapid growth. However, throughout the 1960s the Commonwealth had become more involved in funding schools and education, and pressure was on for the government to fund technical education as well.
The report of the Australian Committee on Technical and Further Education, TAFE in Australia (ACOTAFE 1974), the subsequent establishment of the Technical and Further Education Commission (TAFEC) and the provision of Commonwealth funding in the 1970s had a dramatic effect on technical education in all States.
Technical education under its new name of TAFE, became nationally recognised as a distinct identity within the education sector. Both the quality and quantity of TAFE courses were raised, and the Commonwealth had input into TAFE policy and practice — all of which positively impacted the development and growth TAFE.

TAFE in the 21st century​

Today, the TAFE sector offers a wide range of study options to suit all students, including students from overseas. It combines industry-relevant practical skills with industry-relevant theory, meaning that students gain excellent experience and knowledge within their chosen field.
Students studying through TAFE have the option to study full- or part-time, online, on campus or through the workplace. Different qualifications available include Certificate I-IV, Diploma, Advanced Diploma, and Vocational graduate certificate/diploma.
While TAFE institutes are traditionally known for their focus on vocational education, in recent years many have also started offering higher education programs such as bachelor degrees.
In years gone by, TAFE may have been considered the ‘cinderella’ of education, but today, TAFE provides practical, student-focused teaching strategies, ensuring highly competent, industry-ready graduates are ready to enter the workforce.

 

[Lethality]

This adds to the education discussion on another thread.
Does anyone know exactly why tech secondary schools were closed down? Seems a reasonable option to reintroduce for kids who want to go on and learn a trade.

Some kids are just naturally more 'hands on' and struggle in classroom environments.

Some kids might struggle with classroom environments, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're suited for a trade, it could just mean they learn the same material differently and that the classroom environment has to be redesigned to make it accessible to them.

 

[HairyO]

In NSW the HSC used to be a minimum of a type of Maths and a type of English then you could choose everything else. Boys generally did better overall and the Education Dept in their infinite wisdom decided that the best way to even the playing field was to make everyone do more Humanities subjects. So someone who would have wanted to do 4 unit Maths, 2 unit Physics, 2 unit Chemistry, 3 unit English, with only their 2 unit English component counting to their HSC (best 10 units) was no longer able to do this and had to do less Maths, or one fewer science subject and select a Humanities subject they didnt want to do.

This didnt really raise the scores of girls because it didnt impact on many, but it did lower the scores of many boys - so for the Education dept that counted as a success.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

This adds to the education discussion on another thread.
Does anyone know exactly why tech secondary schools were closed down? Seems a reasonable option to reintroduce for kids who want to go on and learn a trade.

Some kids are just naturally more 'hands on' and struggle in classroom environments.

Lots of kids are doing VET part time within their schools, or faciliated by their schools to attend TAFE

 

[Lethality]

 

[Gralin]

You need to get better sources of information

Godless grifters: How the New Atheists merged with the far right

What once seemed like a bracing intellectual movement has degenerated into a pack of abusive, small-minded bigots

www.salon.com

Lawrence Krauss: A world-renowned cosmologist who authored "A Universe From Nothing" and ran the Origins Project formerly at Arizona State University, Krauss was among the most academically accomplished of the New Atheists. In 2018, though, he was dismissed from his job as director of the Origins Project after an investigation found that he had violated the sexual harassment policy of the university "by groping a woman's breast while on an ASU-funded trip in late 2016." He has also repeatedly and vigorously defended his onetime friend Jeffrey Epstein, the child sex trafficker, who "donated $250,000 to the Origins Project over a seven-year span." According to a 2011 Daily Beast article, Krauss claimed, "I don't feel tarnished in any way by my relationship with Jeffrey; I feel raised by it," adding that he didn't believe the "beautiful women and young women" surrounding Epstein were underage. (Plenty of other people have said it was impossible not to realize that, and Krauss himself has acknowledged that Epstein favored "women ages 19 to 23," which surely should have been a red flag.) After a 2018 BuzzFeed article detailing some of the sexual harassment allegations against Krauss was published, a flood of further accusations emerged online, some of which I catalogued here.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Wow.


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[Lethality]

You need to get better sources of information

Godless grifters: How the New Atheists merged with the far right

What once seemed like a bracing intellectual movement has degenerated into a pack of abusive, small-minded bigots

www.salon.com

The source is the US Department of Education.

 

[Gralin]

The source is the US Department of Education.

View attachment 1402248

Oh buddy.....

The source of that picture for you is Lawrence's substack here - Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Programs at Universities... for Men?

If you'd gotten past the pretty picture you might have read the part where those numbers he uses were not from the Department of Education but from AEI

Shown above are the numbers for the class of 2022, compiled by a group at the American Enterprise Institute who have been monitoring this trend across academia, and also in various different programs.

Averaging over all programs, young women are now over 35% more likely to obtain a bachelors degree than young men. And they are almost 20% more likely to get a doctorate.

Because AEI is viewed by many as a right wing think tank, one might be tempted to dismiss these figures.

He can't even cite a second source for this info that he is using either

To check them, I went to the National Center for Educational Statistics. They didn’t have the 2022 data compiled by the AEI group, but they did have the 2018-2019 data

He also doesn't link directly to either source of data which is a no no in real academic cirlces

But yeah keep ignoring the person because you like their idea

 

[Lethality]

The source of that picture for you is Lawrence's substack here - Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Programs at Universities... for Men?

If you'd gotten past the pretty picture you might have read the part where those numbers he uses were not from the Department of Education but from AEI

That's the source of the picture, the source of the data is the US Department of Education.

This data isn't even contested sorry.

Bachelor's, master's, and doctor's degrees conferred by degree-granting institutions, by sex of student and discipline division: 2009-10

The primary purpose of the Digest of Education Statistics is to provide a compilation of statistical information covering the broad field of American education from prekindergarten through graduate school. The Digest includes a selection of data from many sources, both government and private...

nces.ed.gov

But yeah keep ignoring the person because you like the idea

I don't like the idea of inequity.

Keep ignoring the issue because you don't like the person.

He also doesn't link directly to either source of data which is a no no in real academic cirlces

Sir, this is a substack, and not pretending to be an academic paper.

 

[Lethality]

Beyond your earlier ad hominems, this is a particularly grubby tactic since Epstein made it a point to be photographed with every celebrity he could get his hands on. You talk about being fooled by appearances and then you post this?

 

[Gralin]

Beyond your earlier ad hominems, this is a particularly grubby tactic since Epstein made it a point to be photographed with every celebrity he could get his hands on. You talk about being fooled by appearances and then you post this?

you don't read do you.....
Go back and have a look at the words above that photo, he wasn't just posing for a photo with someone he didn't personally know......

 

[Lethality]

you don't read do you.....
Go back and have a look at the words above that photo, he wasn't just posing for a photo with someone he didn't personally know......

No s**t, Epstein was a collector of people, that was part of his MO as a psychopath.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Lol. Bro.


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[Lethality]

Lol. Bro.

Solid contribution as always.