List Mgmt. When do you make a call on a player good or bad

[Cap]

Given what we are about to go through I thought it would be interesting to see other posters view on when they make a call on if a player is going to make it or not

Some example for me, was I was confident that Poholke was a player, based on his SANFL form, some of the clean pick ups, delivery I50 and goal sense I thought made him stand out, but that just hasn't translated to AFL, I think after his 3rd game I'd decided we've probably blown the pick

One I reckon will make it is, McHenry, seems to have the things needed, strong tackling, a bit of pace, more than adequate skills and an ability to read the play, already showing more than the likes of Galluci (ok that's pretty obvious). He reminds me of Rielly Knight except with better disposal (another player I rated after his EF game v Bulldogs but he never really hit the heights I expected)

When do you guys make a call on a player? Anyone surprised you?

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

After about the 4th beer

 

[latinoheat]

Given what we are about to go through I thought it would be interesting to see other posters view on when they make a call on if a player is going to make it or not

Some example for me, was I was confident that Poholke was a player, based on his SANFL form, some of the clean pick ups, delivery I50 and goal sense I thought made him stand out, but that just hasn't translated to AFL, I think after his 3rd game I'd decided we've probably blown the pick

One I reckon will make it is, McHenry, seems to have the things needed, strong tackling, a bit of pace, more than adequate skills and an ability to read the play, already showing more than the likes of Galluci (ok that's pretty obvious). He reminds me of Rielly Knight except with better disposal (another player I rated after his EF game v Bulldogs but he never really hit the heights I expected)

When do you guys make a call on a player? Anyone surprised you?

Should have a poll.
I think it was Phil Walsh who said you need to judge a player after 4 pre seasons as to whether they have it or not.
Unfortunately I’m not filled with a lot of confidence in the players we’ve picked up with our early picks. That might come down to development. We seem to have regressed in that area. Also in fitness. I don’t think McHenry is going to be a star of the competition. Doesn’t seem to have composure , seems to put his head in the wrong area and get knocked about and holding the ball too often.
I like the look of Hamill , has some toe , size and takes the game on.
and Schoenberg, clean below his knees , almost Shuey like.

 

[GreyCrow]

There is always something that defines a player that is seen in their 1st game.

Phil Davis calmness under pressure
Rory Sloane gut busting desire for the tackle


I saw something in Will Hamill I liked - a desire to run and take the game on

Yet where Sloanes gut busting is seen as enough - in my mind Murphys isnt -

To answer the question I am patient enough to give a player at least 10 games to show something but I am making micro-assessments all the time- ie Mileras blind turn on Chaplin was elite - but we havent seen much more - but I still believe he has 'something'

 

[1990crow]

There is always something that defines a player that is seen in their 1st game.

Phil Davis calmness under pressure
Rory Sloane gut busting desire for the tackle


I saw something in Will Hamill I liked - a desire to run and take the game on

Yet where Sloanes gut busting is seen as enough - in my mind Murphys isnt -

To answer the question I am patient enough to give a player at least 10 games to show something but I am making micro-assessments all the time- ie Mileras blind turn on Chaplin was elite - but we havent seen much more - but I still believe he has 'something'

Saw enough in McHenry last week too.
Jones.. haven't seen much I like to be honest. A couple of pack breaks I thought yeah that's good but other than that..

 

[Greenac]

10 games absolute minimum but it's variable. 10 straight games would be ideal, but a lot of the time young kids don't get that at AFC. Seeing someone play 10 times over 2 years isn't ideal.

Now we have nothing but time so hopefully that changes to give everyone at least a month of games to stake their claim.

I think Nicks just needs to let them all off the leash and then we can literally see who is worth a dime.

I Think its worth throwing away a month to really see who can play and play where, lock up that pick 1 and then spend the last 10 games putting your learnings into place.

 

[Barneythecrab]

It depends, I think a lot of people on here expect that almost every player drafted is a failure if they are not an a grader. Most clubs have 1 grader per line but that’s it. The rest are made up with b and c graders that get the job done. So it depends on what you are looking for.
I agree, you generally see a glimpse in players early on if they are going to be an a grader. But not many come out the way Rowell and Walsh have.

I also saw a little something from Hamill.

 

[Dirty Bird]

I generally make them early.

THe only position I give them time is Ruck.

And I will also give someone quite a bit of time if they're being played out of position (ie. Gallucci, Poholke etc. under Pyke)

Ive already made up my mind on McAsey (Mixed - Ive seen enough to think he can be an amazing forward, and depending on how he copes with the current adversity will dictate whether he becomes a good defender or a bust of a draft pick)
Ive already made up my mind on McHenery (Positive)

Still undecided on Jones (falls under the Gallucci/Poholke banner for me) but will hopefully know within a few weeks

If Hammill plays like he did yesterday next week Ill have already made up my mind on him too. (Positive)

And I feel my strike rate is pretty good.

I made up my mind on Matt Crouch in 2014-15, ignoring 2017 in which he showed improvement (before regressing back to his usual self in 2018) he's been a constant the whole way through his career. Gets the ball, ineffective kicks, hospital handpasses. Stats and DE will generally show he went good. I wonder if there was a stat for turnovers once removed if he'd be setting AFL seasonal records. All good to hit a handpass. Shame it goes to someone wholl get tackled before they can do anything with it.

 

[relapse]

I think you can see a lot through watching players in the SANFL.

For me it's not about how many possessions you get or needing to dominate games it's more about just seeing things that show they're a class above the SANFL standard.

 

[Tex200]

I generally go pretty early - easy to mess it up as I’ve certainly done in the past.

But generally you don’t need to see a lot in terms of possessions. Most important thing for me to see how much time a player needs, or if not then something they have - like Hamill’s pace yesterday.

Ive a huge worry about Jones - looks rushed and in trouble every time he gets near it.

But then I was high early on Gallucci so what would I know.

 

[Jarman3]

10 games absolute minimum but it's variable. 10 straight games would be ideal, but a lot of the time young kids don't get that at AFC. Seeing someone play 10 times over 2 years isn't ideal.

Now we have nothing but time so hopefully that changes to give everyone at least a month of games to stake their claim.

I think Nicks just needs to let them all off the leash and then we can literally see who is worth a dime.

I Think its worth throwing away a month to really see who can play and play where, lock up that pick 1 and then spend the last 10 games putting your learnings into place.

We're throwing the month away anyway. Might as well try to learn something new from it.

 

[1970crow]

I generally go pretty early - easy to mess it up as I’ve certainly done in the past.

But generally you don’t need to see a lot in terms of possessions. Most important thing for me to see how much time a player needs, or if not then something they have - like Hamill’s pace yesterday.

Ive a huge worry about Jones - looks rushed and in trouble every time he gets near it.

But then I was high early on Gallucci so what would I know.

I go early in the positive as well but then there's contributing factors out of the player's control. Gooch a good example, he's been injured a couple of times when opportunity was there and he's never been given a go where he's going to play his best footy and contribute more consistently. And he must be a butterball if he returned in poor shape given how unfit our best 22 is at the moment.

In the negative, I'm firm that players need a block of games when they're elevated. Play them in their right spot and have them prove that they don't have it and move them on.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Need to make the call either way

These players who have lengthy careers with us as 'fringers' who are sometimes best 22, sometimes not for years and years and years has to stop.

You get nothing from them
Invest minimal faith in them
They take games away from others
And when you finally rule a line through them get nothing for them in a trade

List development poison.

In answer to the OP's question, the problem is that our coaches/selectors/list managers don't know the answer. They aren't prepared to make a call either way and to back those decisions in.

 

[1970crow]

Need to make the call either way

These players who have lengthy careers with us as 'fringers' who are sometimes best 22, sometimes not for years and years and years has to stop.

You get nothing from them
Invest minimal faith in them
They take games away from others
And when you finally rule a line through them get nothing for them in a trade

List development poison.

In answer to the OP's question, the problem is that our coaches/selectors/list managers don't know the answer. They aren't prepared to make a call either way and to back those decisions in.

And they hide behind such imperatives as 'continuity' and 'experience' to avoid making decisions. We have an active club football philosophy decided by selected people within the club. This is why the message and actions have been consistent for so long. Why would it change when new employees are being recruited by the same philosophy.

 

[kulak]

There is always something that defines a player that is seen in their 1st game.

Phil Davis calmness under pressure
Rory Sloane gut busting desire for the tackle


I saw something in Will Hamill I liked - a desire to run and take the game on

Yet where Sloanes gut busting is seen as enough - in my mind Murphys isnt -

To answer the question I am patient enough to give a player at least 10 games to show something but I am making micro-assessments all the time- ie Mileras blind turn on Chaplin was elite - but we havent seen much more - but I still believe he has 'something'

Agree.

Then development over time is a mix of attitude and coaching to turn those occasional moments into an All Australian.

Season five often sees a big leap:

Danger went from 17 possessions in year four to 26 in year five.

Charles made a big leap in year five, his first at Brisbane, although cut short by injury. Then again in year six to be AA.

This is season five for Milera. History would suggest if he isn’t close to AA contention this year then he probably never will be. Unfortunate injury timing.

 

[SaltPeter]

Agree.

Then development over time is a mix of attitude and coaching to turn those occasional moments into an All Australian.

Season five often sees a big leap:

Danger went from 17 possessions in year four to 26 in year five.

Charles made a big leap in year five, his first at Brisbane, although cut short by injury. Then again in year six to be AA.

This is season five for Milera. History would suggest if he isn’t close to AA contention this year then he probably never will be. Unfortunate injury timing.

Yep .. and this is from an opinion piece on afl.com. He'll turn 23 near the end of the year. I hope a few of the posters unhappy with McAsey to date can show a little perspective

Eight things we learned: A Richmond reinvention might be needed

Carlton defender right in the mix for a big reward at the end of the season, plus more lessons from round three

www.afl.com.au

1. Jacob Weitering might be an All-Australian by year's end
Alex Rance has retired, Jeremy McGovern is injured... is Weitering ready to take on one of the key defensive spots in this year’s Virgin Australia AFL All-Australian team? On the back of the first three rounds the Carlton backman would be right in the mix. The Blues' No.1 pick from the 2015 NAB AFL Draft looks set to deliver on the promise he showed in his first season, backing up the improvement from the second half of last year to be one of Carlton’s best players in 2020. In the Blues' surprise win against Geelong on Saturday night, the 22-year-old beat Cats star Tom Hawkins in an important job. Weitering is backing himself in the air, penetrating with his kick and clearly has the confidence to take on and overcome the game’s best tall forwards. - Callum Twomey

 

[kulak]

Yep .. and this is from an opinion piece on afl.com. He'll turn 23 near the end of the year. I hope a few of the posters unhappy with McAsey to date can show a little perspective

Eight things we learned: A Richmond reinvention might be needed

Carlton defender right in the mix for a big reward at the end of the season, plus more lessons from round three

www.afl.com.au

1. Jacob Weitering might be an All-Australian by year's end
Alex Rance has retired, Jeremy McGovern is injured... is Weitering ready to take on one of the key defensive spots in this year’s Virgin Australia AFL All-Australian team? On the back of the first three rounds the Carlton backman would be right in the mix. The Blues' No.1 pick from the 2015 NAB AFL Draft looks set to deliver on the promise he showed in his first season, backing up the improvement from the second half of last year to be one of Carlton’s best players in 2020. In the Blues' surprise win against Geelong on Saturday night, the 22-year-old beat Cats star Tom Hawkins in an important job. Weitering is backing himself in the air, penetrating with his kick and clearly has the confidence to take on and overcome the game’s best tall forwards. - Callum Twomey

Think you are missing step one. McAsey hasn’t so far given any indication why he was a top 20 pick. It’s only 3 games but I’m hoping for a sign of some kind soon.

 

[SaltPeter]

Think you are missing step one. McAsey hasn’t so far given any indication why he was a top 20 pick. It’s only 3 games but I’m hoping for a sign of some kind soon.

Nor did Weitering. He has been a constant source of amusement on variety of boards for non-Carlton fans

 

[Geoffa32]

Think you are missing step one. McAsey hasn’t so far given any indication why he was a top 20 pick. It’s only 3 games but I’m hoping for a sign of some kind soon.

Give him five plus games up forward and he will.

This is my early call. McAsey could be an ok defender.

But to me has more potential as an elite agile KPF.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[kulak]

Nor did Weitering. He has been a constant source of amusement on variety of boards for non-Carlton fans

Oh dear. Weitering was fantastic in year one. Marked anything in his postcode. Until he got injured.

You have to be thinking of someone else there’s no possible way you could watch Weitering’s first few games and declare he showed not even a moment.

The mystery with Weitering was why he didn’t seem to be improving. But he seems to have it together now.

 

[kulak]

Give him five plus games up forward and he will.

This is my early call. McAsey could be an ok defender.

But to me has more potential as an elite agile KPF.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Limited agility and athleticism.

The hope would have been that he would be the Phil Davis cerebral general. But I remember Davis’s first few games and he was beating experienced opponents with pure footy smarts. McAsey is plodding around after Marshall and King watching them have career best games.

Still this is a brutal introduction to AFL. He is getting the Jack Watts treatment. I fear we are breaking him. He must wish he was anywhere else in the world rather than trying to defend guys with multiple pre seasons in the gym with zero midfield pressure.

 

[SaltPeter]

Oh dear. Weitering was fantastic in year one. Marked anything in his postcode. Until he got injured.

You have to be thinking of someone else there’s no possible way you could watch Weitering’s first few games and declare he showed not even a moment.

The mystery with Weitering was why he didn’t seem to be improving. But he seems to have it together now.

Players develop differently. It probably until later last year that he started showing some decent consistent form. 4 years, irrespective of injuries. The point I was making is that McAsey deserves to given some time, and a preseasons before being written off.

 

[jackster83]

Oh dear. Weitering was fantastic in year one. Marked anything in his postcode. Until he got injured.

You have to be thinking of someone else there’s no possible way you could watch Weitering’s first few games and declare he showed not even a moment.

The mystery with Weitering was why he didn’t seem to be improving. But he seems to have it together now.

Bolton tried to use him up forward, which set him back a few years.

 

[SaltPeter]

Limited agility and athleticism.

The hope would have been that he would be the Phil Davis cerebral general. But I remember Davis’s first few games and he was beating experienced opponents with pure footy smarts. McAsey is plodding around after Marshall and King watching them have career best games.

Still this is a brutal introduction to AFL. He is getting the Jack Watts treatment. I fear we are breaking him. He must wish he was anywhere else in the world rather than trying to defend guys with multiple pre seasons in the gym with zero midfield pressure.

Davis was drafted in 2008 and didn't debut until 2010.

 

[kulak]

Davis was drafted in 2008 and didn't debut until 2010.

Good point, so I’m being unfair by comparing McAsey in season one to Davis in season two.

My position on McAsey is that at the moment he hasn’t given “a sign”. I’m hoping to see that at some point this year. Not writing him off, but I would have hoped to see more so far given he is such an early pick. I will write him off it his remaining 14 games this year go like his first 3.