When will Alastair Clarkson get the credit he deserves?

May 2, 2007
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Not on my A list.

Only really pay attention to those coaches.

Clarko
Simpson
Bolton
Beveridge

Daylight
Weren't you actually once a massive fan of Mathew Knights :p in saying that he was still way better than the wingnut they replaced him with!
 
lol at you trying to defend it.. absolutely terrible behaviour from someone that should be 100 times above that.

In saying that the man is obviously a coaching genius within the AFL, easily the best I've seen in my time watching the game.
Have you got kids ?
Have you been to under 9's auskick ?
Have you seen how disorganised it can be at times ?

You only have to answer YES to 1 of those questions to know where Clarko was coming from.
 
Mar 30, 2005
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box hill
Ian Aitken was no plodder either. He won the rookie of the year award in 1987 and played in a premiership and I'd argue that Clarkson's dog act ruined him as a player as he never reproduced his 1987 form again and was on the scrapheap only a few years later.

The thing that annoys me most about Clarkson/Hawthorn supporters is their hypocrisy in these matters. I remember back in 2009 when Buddy Franklin cleaned up Ben Cousins when he was at Richmond and got suspended for the final H/A game against Essendon, Clarkson and the Hawthorn supporters were whining about the bump being taken out of the game and the game becoming soft etc yet the very next week Matthew Lloyd ran through Brad Sewell and we had Hawthorn fans wanting to lynch him and Clarkson mouthing off at Lloyd (with plenty of support staff separating them of course) and dickheads like Campbell Brown making threats of payback on radio blah blah. What happened to their embracing of the bump and "unsociable football" that day? Of course when it's them dishing it out it's all great.

Clarkson is the best coach in the business hands down, and Hawthorn are a tremendous football side but being that doesn't make them beyond reproach either.
those were two different type bumps that is why the different reactions if lloyd did the same as buds one i would have had no problem with it but he did not at all do that , i have defended other team players when they have suspended or wanted to do so for a bump that was similar to the buddy one
 
Mar 30, 2005
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box hill
I don't know what either were thinking or motivated by when they delivered their respective bumps and neither do you. They both made split second decisions. In both cases the ball was in the immediate vicinity, both players chose to bump when they both didn't have to and both Sewell and Cousins were knocked out and suffered concussion from the respective incidents. Take a look at either of them and tell me they're that much different as actual bumps






Hawthorn people overreacted because it was Lloyd and he and Essendon had/have an intense rivalry with you plus the Bombers rolled you that game and cost you a finals spot and you lot and your coach had a dummy spit. Franklins suspension was justified (he looked to lift an arm too which Lloyd didn't do) as was Lloyds but the fact Hawthorn supports bitched and whined about Buddy getting banned one week before bitching and whining about Lloyd doing something not too dissimilar leaves you open to allegations of hypocrisy imo.

bud did not lift anything cuz was changing direction and in the process went lower sadly anyway as i said two different type bumps can't compare
 
Mar 30, 2005
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Well the ball was still in play after the Buddy hit so the players had to focus on that.

Or maybe Hawthorn are just bigger sooks when it comes to receiving what they're happy to dish out.
never stopped players squaring up before if they thought a dirty act had happened whether play on was happening or not a fight will happen if they think a dirty act has occurred, seen it many a time
 

CFC_JP

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Barassi, Mathews, Parkin and Malthouse all won premierships with different clubs which make them better coaches than Clarkson. Not forgetting Jock McHale with 8 and Norm Smith with 6 have more than Clarkson.

The Brisbane 3peat team would s**t on the current Hawks team IMO.

Having said that Clarkson has used the system brilliantly and built a bottom team into a 3 time GF winning team.
 
Oct 14, 2011
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Barassi, Mathews, Parkin and Malthouse all won premierships with different clubs which make them better coaches than Clarkson. Not forgetting Jock McHale with 8 and Norm Smith with 6 have more than Clarkson.

The Brisbane 3peat team would s**t on the current Hawks team IMO.

Having said that Clarkson has used the system brilliantly and built a bottom team into a 3 time GF winning team.
4 time*
 
Sep 17, 2004
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Barassi, Mathews, Parkin and Malthouse all won premierships with different clubs which make them better coaches than Clarkson. Not forgetting Jock McHale with 8 and Norm Smith with 6 have more than Clarkson.

The Brisbane 3peat team would s**t on the current Hawks team IMO.

Having said that Clarkson has used the system brilliantly and built a bottom team into a 3 time GF winning team.

Haha nice melt :)
 
Barassi, Mathews, Parkin and Malthouse all won premierships with different clubs which make them better coaches than Clarkson. Not forgetting Jock McHale with 8 and Norm Smith with 6 have more than Clarkson.

The Brisbane 3peat team would s**t on the current Hawks team IMO.

Having said that Clarkson has used the system brilliantly and built a bottom team into a 3 time GF winning team.

:p:D:hearts:
Got to love these ongoing melts from Carlton supporters.
 

buddy2fernando

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Barassi, Mathews, Parkin and Malthouse all won premierships with different clubs which make them better coaches than Clarkson. Not forgetting Jock McHale with 8 and Norm Smith with 6 have more than Clarkson.

The Brisbane 3peat team would s**t on the current Hawks team IMO.

Having said that Clarkson has used the system brilliantly and built a bottom team into a 3 time GF winning team.

Ok then...
So Ross Lyon jumping off a sinking St Kilda ship and winning a flag for a ready built Freo side would make him a better coach than had he rebuilt the Saints to win a flag?
 
Its bizarre
One would think they, of all people, should recoginse a "bottom team" when they see one.
Takes one to know one

Do you remember

"Somethings cooking"
And then there was this pearler
"No passengers"
 

CFC_JP

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Ok then...
So Ross Lyon jumping off a sinking St Kilda ship and winning a flag for a ready built Freo side would make him a better coach than had he rebuilt the Saints to win a flag?

Saints haven't won one and either have Freo so your point is pointless

Stop trolling troll
 

CFC_JP

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Do you remember

"Somethings cooking"
And then there was this pearler
"No passengers"
What has this got to do with Carlton. Thread is about Clarkson and his standing as a coach which I have said he is very good. I don't believe he's at an all time great status as with the coaches I have mentioned. That could change in time.
You're a precious mob you hawkers. Getting very defensive when you think one of your own is being attacked.
Maybe it was the remark that your current team would get shat on by Brisbane's 3peat time which it would.
 
What has this got to do with Carlton. Thread is about Clarkson and his standing as a coach which I have said he is very good. I don't believe he's at an all time great status as with the coaches I have mentioned. That could change in time.
You're a precious mob you hawkers. Getting very defensive when you think one of your own is being attacked.
Maybe it was the remark that your current team would get shat on by Brisbane's 3peat time which it would.

Oh sorry, forgot where I was. Poster and I discussing crap sides and the Blues were mentioned and hence my post.

Carry on....
 

CFC_JP

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Neednt worry though

This Hawthorn side would belt the living suitcases out of great teams from the past...like the 1995 Carlton side (the Blues greatest ever)

Hence the melty Carlton fans :)

Comparing great teams from different eras is so subjective. Now assuming you're not trolling here you're comparing a team that lost 6 times in the home and away season and finished 3rd on the ladder and losing in week 1 of the finals to a team that had 2 losses all year finishing on top of the ladder by a country mile and winning the GF by 10 goals.

Surely you're trolling :)
 
Apr 17, 2006
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Comparing great teams from different eras is so subjective. Now assuming you're not trolling here you're comparing a team that lost 6 times in the home and away season and finished 3rd on the ladder and losing in week 1 of the finals to a team that had 2 losses all year finishing on top of the ladder by a country mile and winning the GF by 10 goals.

Surely you're trolling :)
Just watch any game from then

All positional, all one-way runners

That alone would see any side from then destroyed
 
Sep 17, 2004
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Comparing great teams from different eras is so subjective. Now assuming you're not trolling here you're comparing a team that lost 6 times in the home and away season and finished 3rd on the ladder and losing in week 1 of the finals to a team that had 2 losses all year finishing on top of the ladder by a country mile and winning the GF by 10 goals.

Surely you're trolling :)

Now, Now. The 95 Blues team couldnt even back up...

They got belted by the Bears in the 96 Semi and crashed out of the finals in 97

Like I said, melty :)
 
What has this got to do with Carlton. Thread is about Clarkson and his standing as a coach which I have said he is very good. I don't believe he's at an all time great status as with the coaches I have mentioned. That could change in time.
You're a precious mob you hawkers. Getting very defensive when you think one of your own is being attacked.
Maybe it was the remark that your current team would get shat on by Brisbane's 3peat time which it would.
Malthouse was sacked or eased out 4 times, not sure that is a positive for his record.
 

dean31

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Malthouse was sacked or eased out 4 times, not sure that is a positive for his record.

Also took Malthouse 70 years to win a few flags as a coach. What's Clarkson at now? 11 seasons for 4 Premierships.
As far as Matthews as great a player/coach as he was he was handed that AFL built list the lions had. His predecessors at the Lions don't get any credit and they deserve a lot.
Not nearly the same as building and tweaking a list like Clarkson has done.
 
Also took Malthouse 70 years to win a few flags as a coach. What's Clarkson at now? 11 seasons for 4 Premierships.
As far as Matthews as great a player/coach as he was he was handed that AFL built list the lions had. His predecessors at the Lions don't get any credit and they deserve a lot.
Not nearly the same as building and tweaking a list like Clarkson has done.

Malthouse did preside over one true rebuild from 2004 - 2010; I also don't recall what he inherited so possibly built the 02/03 GF sides.
 
Mar 2, 2015
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Barassi, Mathews, Parkin and Malthouse all won premierships with different clubs which make them better coaches than Clarkson.
No, it doesn't. It just means they were given the arse from one club and moved to another.
Their message had worn thin and their time was up and so they moved on. That's not a plus. That's a minus.

When Barassi coached Carlton, they were probably the most talented team in the comp - Nicholls, Jezza, Doull, Southby, Silvagni, Crosswell, Walls, Crane, Mackay, Gallagher, etc. He went to North Melbourne, who basically bought a premiership under the "10 year rule" (free agency) and led the way with recruiting champions from SA and WA. North were easily the most talent-rich team of the mid to late 70s (Cable, Greig, Dench, Davis, Wade, Kekovich, Crosswell, Rantall, Schimmelbusch, Melrose, Blight, Baker, Breidis, Gumbleton, Henshaw, Icke, McCann, Dempsey, Glendinning.) If Barassi was as good as his press clippings, then he would've won 5 or 6 premierships. He basically abused and belittled his players and got everyone off-side. That's why he never lasted anywhere and moved from club to club.

David Parkin was handed the 1976 premiership team. He was John Kennedy's right hand man, but Kanga decided enough was enough and concentrated on his teaching career. Parkin was given Matthews, Knights, Tuck, Scott, Moore, Moncrieff, Martello, Hendrie, Rowlings, Ablett, Eade, O'Halloran and Goad in the prime of their careers (plus the return of genius forward Peter Hudson from Tassie) but he lost the '77 Preliminary Final. He won the flag in 1978, but then things went to the shitter in 1979 and 1980. Missed the finals. He switched to Carlton in 1981 and won B2B flags, but he was virtually handed Jezza's 1979 premiership team. The Blues were stacked with talent and experience - Fitzpatrick, Doull, Southby, Johnston, Buckley, Ashman, Maclure, Hunter, Bosustow, English, Wells, Armstrong, Sheldon, Marcou, Maylin, Mackay, McConville, Perovic, Glascott… Things went pear-shaped over the next 3 seasons and he was sacked. He coached Fitzroy to 3rd spot in 1986, but completely lost the players by 1988. Parko's best coaching achievement was the 1995 flag when he basically empowered his senior players and let them coach themselves.

Leigh Matthews did a great job to build the Magpies into a premiership team from 1986 to 1990 and break the 32 year drought. People always said it wasn't a very talented side - it's true, Lethal got the most out of journeymen such as Kelly, Christian, Barwick, Manson, McKeown, Turner, etc, but the flip side to that is that Collingwood had a talented bunch of Under 19's who all came through at the same time - Millane, McGuane, Brown, Monkhorst, Wright, Crosisca, Gayfer, Morwood, Banks, Richardson, Kerrison. Things kind of petered out after 1990, but then Lethal was handed to the keys to Ferrari showroom when the AFL sent him north to coach Brisbane. The Lions were solidified by the Fitzroy merger and also the salary cap subsidy (The "player retention" allowance). He did really well to snag 3 successive flags, but he didn't exactly build that side. Northey coached them to finals in 1995 and 1996 (3rd place).

Malthouse won just 3 flags in three decades - his final two decades were spent at the AFL's two richest clubs - he was handed the WA state side and did well to coach them to 2 flags. This was followed by 5 years of lower Top 8 mediocrity (10 finals, 2 wins, 8 losses) before he joined Collingwood, where he did well to coach an average bunch into 2 Grand Finals. Thereafter, he probably underachieved at Collingwood with just 1 flag from their next six or seven years of finals appearances.

Not forgetting Jock McHale with 8 and Norm Smith with 6 have more than Clarkson.
Having said that Clarkson has used the system brilliantly and built a bottom team into a 3 time GF winning team.
Clarkson took over the 15th placed side in 2004 (4 wins, 18 losses) and using rejects, trades and late draft picks, he built a premiership team in just 4 seasons. People always focused on the early draft picks - Roughead (2), Franklin (5), Ellis (3), Dowler (6) - but the guts of the team was comprised of journeymen such as Sewell, Bateman, Guerra, Campbell, Osborne, Young, Gilham, Dew, Williams, Boyle, McGlynn, Taylor, Renouf. They all came off the rookie list, or were late draft picks, or rejects from other clubs…

He also did a great job coaching the younger guys up and buying into his "cluster" done defence: Hodge, Mitchell, Brown, Ladson, Birchall, Lewis, Franklin, Roughead and Ellis all flourished quickly under Clarko's coaching. Nobody else has achieved the same results with their young guns. Everyone talks about their great kids, but none of them ever seem to come together like those young Hawks did. The 2008 side was one of the youngest premiership teams ever.

Things fell apart from 2009 to 2010 - players succumbed to injury and retired (Crawford, Croad, Dew, Campbell, Williams, Ladson) - these left gaping holes in the structure - but Clarkson did a great job to rebuild the team on the fly and coach virtually a new line up to a threepeat. Just six players from 2008 lasted through to 2014. I think this is a far greater achievement than Barassi, Parkin and Matthews switching clubs and winning flags with new clubs who already had all of the pieces in place.
 
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Mar 2, 2015
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Alastair Clarkson - 4 premierships in 11 seasons
  1. 2008 - his 4th season
  2. 2013 - his 9th season
  3. 2014 - his 10th season
  4. 2015 - his 11th season

Ron Barassi - 4 premierships in 23 seasons
  1. 1968 - his 4th season
  2. 1970 - his 6th season
  3. 1975 - his 10th season
  4. 1977 - his 12th season

Leigh Matthews - 4 premierships in 20 seasons
  1. 1990 - his 5th season
  2. 2001 - his 13th season
  3. 2001 - his 14th season
  4. 2003 - his 15th season

David Parkin - 4 premierships in 22 seasons
  1. 1978 - his 2nd season
  2. 1981 - his 5th season
  3. 1982 - his 6th season
  4. 1995 - his 17th season

Mick Malthouse - 3 premierships in 31 seasons
  1. 1992 - his 9th season
  2. 1994 - his 11th season
  3. 2010 - his 27th season

Kevin Sheedy - 4 premierships in 29 seasons
  1. 1984 - his 4th season
  2. 1985 - his 5th season
  3. 1993 - his 13th season
  4. 2000 - his 20th season

Allan Jeans - 4 premierships in 26 seasons
  1. 1966 - his 6th season
  2. 1983 - his 19th season
  3. 1986 - his 22nd season
  4. 1989 - his 24th season

Tom Hafey - 4 premierships in 23 seasons
  1. 1967 - his 2nd season
  2. 1969 - his 4th season
  3. 1973 - his 8th season
  4. 1974 - his 9th season

John Kennedy - 3 premierships in 19 seasons
  1. 1961 - his 2nd season
  2. 1971 - his 9th season
  3. 1976 - his 14th season

Dick Reynolds - 4 premierships in 22 seasons
  1. 1942 - his 4th season
  2. 1946 - his 8th season
  3. 1949 - his 11th season
  4. 1950 - his 12th season

Jack Worrall - 5 premierships in 18 seasons
  1. 1906 - his 5th season
  2. 1907 - his 6th season
  3. 1908 - his 7th season
  4. 1911 - his 9th season
  5. 1912 - his 10th season

Checker Hughes - 5 premierships in 19 seasons
  1. 1932 - his 6th season
  2. 1939 - his 13th season
  3. 1940 - his 14th season
  4. 1941 - his 15th season
  5. 1948 - his 19th season

Norm Smith
- 6 premierships in 24 seasons
  1. 1955 - his 7th season
  2. 1956 - his 8th season
  3. 1957 - his 9th season
  4. 1959 - his 11th season
  5. 1960 - his 12th season
  6. 1964 - his 16th season

Jock McHale - 8 premierships in 38 seasons
  1. 1917 - his 6th season
  2. 1919 - his 8th season
  3. 1927 - his 16th season
  4. 1928 - his 17th season
  5. 1929 - his 18th season
  6. 1930 - his 19th season
  7. 1935 - his 24th season
  8. 1936 - his 25th season
 
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