When will Alastair Clarkson get the credit he deserves?

[bh90210fan]

He's the most valuable commodity in the afl. I'd have him at west coast before Dustin Martin

 

[dipper86]

Clarkson on Confidential last night spoke basically at odds to what Hawthorn fans have been saying he's been projecting.

He basically said he's looking forward to the challenge of figuring out how Hawthorn will win their next piece of silverware.

From what I've heard from Hawthorn fans, there's a plan in place and the next flag is around the corner. Listening to Clarkson himself and it sounds like he's enjoying the challenge of figuring out how they'll win the next flag, not that he's already figured it out.

Also said they wouldn't be active in this trade period, didn't have the currency due to being so active last year.

If he can build a team from here to win a flag in the next 3 years, or even makes the top 4 in the next 3 years, then I'll tip my lid and say he's GOAT.

Even if Clarkson had figured it out its a bit weird that you would be expecting Clarkson to say that he had figured it out....its nothing more than a token response.

No doubt he has an idea of the game plan required and the personnel needed to implement it....he ain't just winging it.

 

[King Brown]

In all five of those, the best side didn't win the GF according to the masses here on BF. Geelong, Freo and Sydney were the pre match favourites in all three they lost, I seem to recall a fair degree of angst at the time here on BF when anyone dared to suggest the 2012 Hawks were a better side than Sydney, and up until the GF the 2015 season belonged to the Eagles. A lot of you guys really don't have a good recall of your own conversations...isn't hindsight a lovely thing...

The betting odds in the 2012, 2013 and 2015 GFs overwhelmingly favoured Hawthorn. There was an article in The Age on the eve of the 2012 GF that the Hawks were on the verge of a dynasty based on their talent.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hawthorn-on-verge-of-greatness-20120927-26o2l.html

To argue otherwise only serves a deluded perspective.

 

[Marcus DuQuesne]

You asked the question so here goes....Stephen Gillham,Rick Ladson,Clinton Young,Michael Osborne,Robert Campbell, Brent Renouf, David Hale, Steve Savage, Max Baily, Jonathon Simpkin(Geel), Taylor Duryea....Except for Hale a ruckman I believe I have no idea about the others...funniest one to me was Grant Birchall 245 games I believe..sorry never heard of him. Context is I do not watch Hawthorn play hardly ever in fact as I get older the less I watch AFL...there are also Geelong players who I have never heard of...I won't list them here. There are plenty of other players who I have not heard of either. No disrespect to these guys they just have not registered with me.

 

[Marcus DuQuesne]

I see a lot of Geelong grannies doing their knitting while watching the footy.

Apparently a lot of Hawthorn granddads play with their doodles while watching the footy...Your point is?

 

[estibador]

So, excluding 2005-06-07-9-10 because that would be silly, you're telling me that Hawthorn was better on paper than Geelong in 2008, Collingwood and Geelong in 2011, Sydney in 2012, Freo and Geelong in 2013, WC and Freo in 2015 and the entire top 8 in 2016, but not as good as Sydney in 2014...?

I was only thinking of the 3peat years where Sydney is the only one that's even arguable.

Hawks were big favourites going into the others, but I see you're one of their many fans from that era who got offended that some people dared suggest the opposition may have a chance and used that to twist the wins into some ridiculous underdog story.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You asked the question so here goes....Stephen Gillham,Rick Ladson,Clinton Young,Michael Osborne,Robert Campbell, Brent Renouf, David Hale, Steve Savage, Max Baily, Jonathon Simpkin(Geel), Taylor Duryea....Except for Hale a ruckman I believe I have no idea about the others...funniest one to me was Grant Birchall 245 games I believe..sorry never heard of him. Context is I do not watch Hawthorn play hardly ever in fact as I get older the less I watch AFL...there are also Geelong players who I have never heard of...I won't list them here. There are plenty of other players who I have not heard of either. No disrespect to these guys they just have not registered with me.

Hi Sam.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

The betting odds in the 2012, 2013 and 2015 GFs overwhelmingly favoured Hawthorn. There was an article in The Age on the eve of the 2012 GF that the Hawks were on the verge of a dynasty based on their talent.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hawthorn-on-verge-of-greatness-20120927-26o2l.html

To argue otherwise only serves a deluded perspective.

Of course the betting odds favoured the grand finalist that got to play on its home ground against a non-Victorian club.

 

[blue harvest]

Of course the betting odds favoured the grand finalist that got to play on its home ground against a non-Victorian club.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Yes, Hawthorn was better on paper than all of these.

Agree. It would have been a letdown had we not beaten all of those teams. Only Sydney 2014 compared, however we were a more potent attacking team (averaging 2 goals extra p/g, but conceded 1 goal extra p/g, which gave them a better % in the end and the top spot) and obviously had the game-plan that counters Longmire's (as Bruce said on Grand Final day, 'no one can score against Sydney unless they're Hawthorn').

In 2015 Hawks absolutely demolished the then-undefeated Freo by 80 points (admittedly in Tassie), and then the next week demolished Sydney in Sydney by 100-odd points (round 13/14 I think it was). They were the two contenders at the time, and it just made it clear that if Hawthorn played their best then they would beat anyone and the gap was significant.

 

[blitzer]

He's the most valuable commodity in the afl. I'd have him at west coast before Dustin Martin

I bet if Dustin Martin nominated West Coast and Clarkson agreed to move there but only if Martin wasn't a player there that you would back away from that statement incredibly quickly.

 

[Marcus DuQuesne]

Collingwood had a great team on paper.

It just goes to show that a champion team can challenge a team of champions. St Kilda's side was well-oiled and each player knew their role and what was required of them. I really wish they had won at least one of their Grand Finals.

2010-2016...Best GF of this group was 2011. Top quality football which is what you expect from Geelong..Collingwood were good as well

 

[Judd2Sewell]

2010-2016...Best GF of this group was 2011. Top quality football which is what you expect from Geelong..Collingwood were good as well

The best grand final as far as a spectacle is concerned was clearly 2016, it was an epic game.

I was there for 2011 and I think it was a good game, no doubt. But 2016 was one of the very best ever IMO.

 

[bh90210fan]

I bet if Dustin Martin nominated West Coast and Clarkson agreed to move there but only if Martin wasn't a player there that you would back away from that statement incredibly quickly.

If I could choose any one person to have at the Eagles it would be Clarkson and I'm not going to back away from that statement. There's a reason Hawthorn is a breeding ground for senior coaches, there's a reason they've been so successful with him in charge and there's a reason they managed to turn around a horrid start to the year and become a very competitive side without the likes of Mitchell, Lewis, O'meara and Rioli

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Hi Sam.

I think it's safe to say we can completely and utterly disregard any opinion that guy has to offer.

 

[Pessimistic]

How hard was your hand gripping your dick when you wrote this trash?

http://www.bet-au.com/aussie-rules/afl-odds-2013-premiership-and-grand-final-betting.htm

Hawthorn were clear favourites in 2013. The evidence is above. If you wish to assert that the side that finished 19-3, four wins ahead of Fremantle, were the outsiders, then you should provide the eveidence, as it goes against all logic.

Hawthorn's third best forward, Jack Gunston, kicked more goals than Fremantle's leading key forward, Chris Mayne.

How anyone can say a side that had Franklin, Roughead and Gunston had less talent than the side that had Mayne as centre half forward is beyond me.

That's very true but the majority of the media were completely seduced by freo prelim win which apparently was the most pressure in a final ever

I think after the game freo became favourites for the 2014 flag. Work that one out

 

[QuietB]

If I could choose any one person to have at the Eagles it would be Clarkson and I'm not going to back away from that statement. There's a reason Hawthorn is a breeding ground for senior coaches, there's a reason they've been so successful with him in charge and there's a reason they managed to turn around a horrid start to the year and become a very competitive side without the likes of Mitchell, Lewis, O'meara and Rioli

It would be an awesome experiment to run.

 

[HolyRioli]

That's very true but the majority of the media were completely seduced by freo prelim win which apparently was the most pressure in a final ever

I think after the game freo became favourites for the 2014 flag. Work that one out

Was the whole "you need to lose one to win one" reasoning. Which just seems daft

 

[HairyO]

...female journalists copping filthy language etc.

So if it had been male journos it would have been okay?

 

[Dank You Steven]

Of course the betting odds favoured the grand finalist that got to play on its home ground against a non-Victorian club.

Diddums. Upon joining the VFL/AFL in 1987, you knew the deal - GFs at the MCG. Regardless of who was in them. Next you'll start banging on about Stephen Michael being the greatest footballer of all time. You were absolutely s**t in 2015's GF - it could have been played at Subiaco and you still would have got pumped. Along with Port in 2007, one of the most spineless displays in a GF in recent memory. You were only saved by the fact it was 34 degrees and we did just enough. Otherwise, that was a 100 point massacre. So, stop whining and * off.

 

[kriles76]

I haven't waded through all 38 pages, but I see no point to this thread.

Clarkson - regardless what you think of his character or controversial playing incidents - is widely lauded in the industry as the most innovative and successful modern era coach. Each time there is a coaching availability, his name is linked with a seven figure sum attached to it. He's educated, speaks well publically and when he talks, people listen and value his opinion. He has nurtured numerous current AFL head coaches who were previously assistants under him.

He is a very much an in-demand coach. What further credit does he need?

 

[GreatBradScott]

If he found a way to re-contend and re-invent with the Hawks and jagged one or two more, he'd just about be the GOAT. The benchmark and the best there was.

 

[King Brown]

That's very true but the majority of the media were completely seduced by freo prelim win which apparently was the most pressure in a final ever

I think after the game freo became favourites for the 2014 flag. Work that one out

The media needs to fill column inches and TV segments. Apparently Ken Hinkley was off to the Gold Coast on Sunday. Then had a three year extension, then didn't, then did.

Regardless, Hawthorn were overwhelmingly the bookies and tipsters favourites.

And as for who were favourites at the beginning of 2014, GWS were favourites before the start of this year despite not even making the GF last year.

I mean seriously, how can anyone argue that Hawthorn side wasn't choc full of talent, well ahead of any competitor?

 

[Dank You Steven]

If the cap fits wear it u F@#k Stik.

Wearing it proudly you F@#k Stik - it says "Geelong never beats Hawthorn when it REALLY matters" - stick your curse up your arse. Now head on down to Ryrie Street and pick up your meth for the week.

 

[hawkermitch]

I find the banter about coaching and Clarko refreshing.
Just found this thread - noted those against the Hawks and Clarko - Dons, Cats, Roos.
Besides hawk posters - best OP posters are Eagles and Dockers.

Clarko has never been nominated as coach of the year, I'm sure he's fine with his 4 premiership medals.
Back in the previous glory hawks era Allan Jeans was a great coach, loved what he did.

Interesting that many of Clarko's assistant coaches are current day coaches.....