When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

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chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
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It’s a very bad look. Shows there’s
  1. no unity in the playing group
  2. that concerns about performance management aren’t being addressed internally
  3. he fact they named Docherty and Cripps as among those questioned by the new President makes it likely they were the ones who made the comments about performance. If so, they’re partially responsible, they’re the club’s onfield leaders and as such responsible for driving standards, it means they’re ineffectual leaders and part of the problem
  4. You can fix a rift between coach and players easily enough by sacking the former, if you’ve got factions within the playing group you’re shagged - you can’t turf them all out in one off season.
Bullshit. What are the players supposed to say? They're employees of the club, not in a ******* prison war.

Sayers: Boys, as you know pretty big review coming up, where do you think we start with you guys? What's most important?
Player: Mate, fu** off! We're going just fine here. Take your review elsewhere.
Sayers: Well we're 4-8 and 14th on the ladder, just trying to help
Player: As I said, bugger off.


All we know is that Sayers had an informal chat to some senior players and they admitted confusion around the game plan - the information is vague at best. How do we know they complained about Teague specifically? How do they know they flat out bagged the coaches? The comments from Leppa yesterday were pathetic, reeked of a failed senior coach with a chip on his shoulder.
 

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Dangerousfield

Club Legend
Oct 11, 2012
1,662
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Interesting the outgoing president confirming Teague to coach next year

Doesnt that preempt findings of the review?
Stupid statement to make but probably shows the review findings are known in advance.

I'm interested to know the position of Carlton's salary cap given the number of blow ins on big dollars and the re-signings needed to be made.
 

Gavin Excell

Hall of Famer
Apr 22, 2007
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Stupid statement to make but probably shows the review findings are known in advance.

I'm interested to know the position of Carlton's salary cap given the number of blow ins on big dollars and the re-signings needed to be made.
I can understand why wants to give support to the coach but it does give impression reviews findings are set which isnt exactly a great look
 

TigerTime88

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 8, 2009
9,266
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AFL Club
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If only it was that simple. SPS and Dow were supposed to partner Cripps and Docherty for 10 years. 5 and 4 years in and we’re still wondering if they’ll become best 22 players let alone players to lead a side.

Cripps is still learning as a captain. He needs to get out of that 2019 do it all mindset. He’ll be okay. Cotchin went through exactly the same thing.
He is lazy. Doesn’t do the team things. Always looks gassed.
 

mcgarnacle

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 2, 2003
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View attachment 1149968

Catastrophic. I wonder how much of this review is based off the absolute delusion of the supporter group and football department. Thinking they were anywhere near a contender, only to blow potentially one million dollars in a covid ravaged season on gate receipts?

Their utter stupidity in overrating themselves cost them almost a million dollars.

If they were more realistic about their prospects, they'd take the home game in Perth and at least pocket the coin.
Every team goes into every game wanting to win.

They would've been pillared by their supporters, opposition supporters, and the media had they gone over to Perth and lost. And what message does it send to the players? That the club doesn't give a sh*t about their wins or losses, we're just want the money?

The day a club makes decisions purely based on coin is the day they should fold, or relegate themselves to a lower tier comp.
 

10571z

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 23, 2006
11,148
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Bullshit. What are the players supposed to say? They're employees of the club, not in a ******* prison war.

Sayers: Boys, as you know pretty big review coming up, where do you think we start with you guys? What's most important?
Player: Mate, fu** off! We're going just fine here. Take your review elsewhere.
Sayers: Well we're 4-8 and 14th on the ladder, just trying to help
Player: As I said, bugger off.


All we know is that Sayers had an informal chat to some senior players and they admitted confusion around the game plan - the information is vague at best. How do we know they complained about Teague specifically? How do they know they flat out bagged the coaches? The comments from Leppa yesterday were pathetic, reeked of a failed senior coach with a chip on his shoulder.
Who says he will even be president? sh*t look, agree with Leppitsch
 

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
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Who says he will even be president? sh*t look, agree with Leppitsch
eh? he's in the incoming president, is he not? employees of the club are asked for an informal chat, you have an informal chat and fill the president in. there's nothing to suggest they went behind the back of teague, or bought up problems that have never been bought up before.

the info is vague and its pissweak chest beating from leppa - who is so outspoken in the media now it's clear he's just desperate for a job somewhere.
 

Rich01

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 5, 2004
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Sayers ain’t exactly new to the board.
He’s been there since 2012. During that time the board has been involved in...

The sacking of Malthouse.

The appointment of Trigg.
The sacking of Trigg.

The appointment of Judd as football director.
The departure of Judd as football director.

The appointment of Bolton.
The sacking of Bolton.

The appointment of SOS.
The departure of SOS.

The appointment of Lloyd.
The appointment of Liddle.
The appointment of Teague.
The appointment of Worsfold as coaching consultant.

There seems to be a few board members who have been constants over the last decade of change while most others have been blamed for the failures of the club.

His ‘independent’ review hasn’t started but already one assistant coach has left as a result and the players views on the match committee and game plan have been leaked to media.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Only Teague, Liddle, Lloyd and Worsfold remain. The above trend tells us that the ‘independent’ review will likely see most of not all of these men on shaky ground at the Carlton Football Club.

I’m sure the narrative to fans is starting to be delivered that way well before the review ends.
 

Rich01

Norm Smith Medallist
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I believe the list management, players not being professional and player selection has a lot to do with where Carlton are at.

You can see the players do not play for each other, there may be a group or two who do but the buy in isn't there. Why not?

Well just listing a couple of issues that would 'rock the boat' a tad.

  1. Jack Martin - massive front ended contract and has been nowhere near the money being paid.
  2. Mitch McGovern - came over for pretty decent money and looks like he has just cruised along, unfit, gets injured but still gets paid.
  3. Charlie Curnow - again, big money for potentially being a decent player. Has injury issues but some of those were outside footy (basketball) and a bit silly. How do his lessor paid team mates feel about all that?
  4. Mark Murphy - ex captain and well loved but now past it. Being gifted games so he can reach a personal milestone of 300 games. Is this really a team first approach?
  5. Eddie Betts - champion player and champion bloke but he won't be around in a couple of years when it counts. Is he the future? You add players of Betts age and output if you are gunning for a flag, Blues aren't.
  6. Paid big dollars to get Williams, been injured and suspended. Not a great start.
  7. Patrick Cripps - is he really the man for the job? Its a tough gig I know but why are the players not following his example? I feel for him as he looks sore every week.
If Carlton really wanted to shake things up they should move on C Curnow, Cripps and Mitch McGovern for what they can get. These three would get you as a minimum a good 1st rounder, another later 1st plus another later 2nd. Mitch would be a salary dump.

Hit the draft with three 1sts and two 2nd rounders.

Eddie and Murphy retire.
You’ve nailed the recruiting part.

SOS always looked for value in trades. High draft picks that wouldn’t cost a lot because of injury history or players not living up to potential. The departed list is littered with them.

Martin and McGovern also fit the bill here as to untapped potential. Williams too. Why give a guy the biggest contract at the club to play him out of position? He doesn’t look fit for a back pocket let alone a two way running mid. The recruiting team should have known this while trying to woo him over with bucket loads of cash.

Fans fell over themselves when Martin arrived at the club costing them nothing but he’s turned out to be fools gold.

Murphy and Betts shouldn’t have been given a contract for this year but that’s not their fault. I feel sorry for these guys being treated the way they are, they have been great servants of the club. Shouldn’t have been put in this position. Bad list management.

Curnow is the great white hope. Poor bloke. What a burden to have, when you are just trying to get back on the park. Doomed for failure. Agree it would be best to trade him now for good value.

Cripps you can tell has borne the weight of failure for the club on his shoulders for too long. For his sake he should get out, being pinned as a scapegoat for what’s happening on the field after all he has done is unfair for mine. But for the Blues, this culture of blame needs to stop. They need to re-sign him. If taking the captaincy away allows him to play with more freedom, so be it. But I would reward him for his service and loyalty with decent coin and see out his tenure as a Blue legend. That’s my view on him but personally I’d love him in yellow and black.
 

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10571z

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 23, 2006
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eh? he's in the incoming president, is he not? employees of the club are asked for an informal chat, you have an informal chat and fill the president in. there's nothing to suggest they went behind the back of teague, or bought up problems that have never been bought up before.

the info is vague and its pissweak chest beating from leppa - who is so outspoken in the media now it's clear he's just desperate for a job somewhere.
Seems like a EGM may happen now, so he might not have a role at all.
 

10571z

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 23, 2006
11,148
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You’ve nailed the recruiting part.

SOS always looked for value in trades. High draft picks that wouldn’t cost a lot because of injury history or players not living up to potential. The departed list is littered with them.

Martin and McGovern also fit the bill here as to untapped potential. Williams too. Why give a guy the biggest contract at the club to play him out of position? He doesn’t look fit for a back pocket let alone a two way running mid. The recruiting team should have known this while trying to woo him over with bucket loads of cash.

Fans fell over themselves when Martin arrived at the club costing them nothing but he’s turned out to be fools gold.

Murphy and Betts shouldn’t have been given a contract for this year but that’s not their fault. I feel sorry for these guys being treated the way they are, they have been great servants of the club. Shouldn’t have been put in this position. Bad list management.

Curnow is the great white hope. Poor bloke. What a burden to have, when you are just trying to get back on the park. Doomed for failure. Agree it would be best to trade him now for good value.

Cripps you can tell has borne the weight of failure for the club on his shoulders for too long. For his sake he should get out, being pinned as a scapegoat for what’s happening on the field after all he has done is unfair for mine. But for the Blues, this culture of blame needs to stop. They need to re-sign him. If taking the captaincy away allows him to play with more freedom, so be it. But I would reward him for his service and loyalty with decent coin and see out his tenure as a Blue legend. That’s my view on him but personally I’d love him in yellow and black.
Funny GWS were willing to let these so called “high draft picks” go for virtually nothing and everyone of them has been a bust.

Their development is horrendous not to mention
 

Kreuuuzeurns

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 25, 2013
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He is lazy. Doesn’t do the team things. Always looks gassed.
30th in the league for tackles. He’s still a contested workhorse but the more open game with less stoppages doesn’t suit him one bit.

Needs to trim back down and spend the whole off season working on his ability to cover the ground. He has it in him.
 

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
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To be fair, he's been out for several weeks due to a strained medial ligament. You can't really make a conclusive statement to that.
Finished 6th in our BnF last year didn't he? Played every game too?

Looked like our best fwd in his first 2 games this year but has been out injured since. Turned 26 this year so plenty of footy left. Weird flex.
 

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
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Martin and McGovern also fit the bill here as to untapped potential. Williams too. Why give a guy the biggest contract at the club to play him out of position? He doesn’t look fit for a back pocket let alone a two way running mid. The recruiting team should have known this while trying to woo him over with bucket loads of cash.

Fans fell over themselves when Martin arrived at the club costing them nothing but he’s turned out to be fools gold.

Murphy and Betts shouldn’t have been given a contract for this year but that’s not their fault. I feel sorry for these guys being treated the way they are, they have been great servants of the club. Shouldn’t have been put in this position. Bad list management.

Curnow is the great white hope. Poor bloke. What a burden to have, when you are just trying to get back on the park. Doomed for failure. Agree it would be best to trade him now for good value.

Cripps you can tell has borne the weight of failure for the club on his shoulders for too long. For his sake he should get out, being pinned as a scapegoat for what’s happening on the field after all he has done is unfair for mine. But for the Blues, this culture of blame needs to stop. They need to re-sign him. If taking the captaincy away allows him to play with more freedom, so be it. But I would reward him for his service and loyalty with decent coin and see out his tenure as a Blue legend. That’s my view on him but personally I’d love him in yellow and black.
See above post.

- Martin 6th in our BnF last year, injured this year.
- McGovern complete and utter bust.
- Williams indeed strange move, never liked the midfield promises but if we end up with a great HBF then that's not so bad.
- Murphy put his hand up to go around again and has been gifted games, unsure why that invites sympathy? Is getting a free ride.
- Betts is having a good year.
- Curnow, trade? Value would be at an all-time low after shattering his knee cap and not playing in 2.5 years. He's still 50/50 to make it at AFL level imo, hardly the great white hope & hardly holds any trade currency.
- Cripps wanted the captaincy, I dare say we'd be happy to take it away from him and leave it with Docherty if it meant Cripps could find his form again. But I don't think he would want that, seems like a determined guy.
 

Ambrosia

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 11, 2010
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Seems crazy to start an independent review now.

If you’re Cripps or McKay are you going to sign there while the review is being undertaken and the immediate future is uncertain let alone the long term future.

Plus the guys Carlton are chasing from other clubs aren’t going to want to come while this is going on.

Really think this is a massive overreaction to a run of bad form from a side that clearly lacks senior leaders.

There is very little to be gained from these mid season coaching reviews and it’s quite clearly better off being left to later in the year.

I had Carlton down for a mini resurgence in the back half of the year on the back of Curnow returning along with players like Martin, Fisher, Newman and TDK getting some continuity.

TLDR: Teague may not be the guy long term for Carlton but they are shooting themselves in the foot with this review.
 

Rich01

Norm Smith Medallist
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Finished 6th in our BnF last year didn't he? Played every game too?

Looked like our best fwd in his first 2 games this year but has been out injured since. Turned 26 this year so plenty of footy left. Weird flex.
Probably more of a reflection of where the list was at in the 2020 season.

15 games, averaging 13 possessions and less than a goal a game. But rated in your top half dozen for the year.

Not bad, but not a rolled gold recruiting steal.
 

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
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Probably more of a reflection of where the list was at in the 2020 season.

15 games, averaging 13 possessions and less than a goal a game. But rated in your top half dozen for the year.

Not bad, but not a rolled gold recruiting steal.
You know with players like Martin it's more than a stat sheet, but anyway.

Buckley stepping down, Carlton could do a lot worse.

Pretty decent record
Same. I like him. Why is he stepping down?
 

Ambrosia

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 11, 2010
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See above post.

- Martin 6th in our BnF last year, injured this year.
- McGovern complete and utter bust.
- Williams indeed strange move, never liked the midfield promises but if we end up with a great HBF then that's not so bad.
- Murphy put his hand up to go around again and has been gifted games, unsure why that invites sympathy? Is getting a free ride.
- Betts is having a good year.
- Curnow, trade? Value would be at an all-time low after shattering his knee cap and not playing in 2.5 years. He's still 50/50 to make it at AFL level imo, hardly the great white hope & hardly holds any trade currency.
- Cripps wanted the captaincy, I dare say we'd be happy to take it away from him and leave it with Docherty if it meant Cripps could find his form again. But I don't think he would want that, seems like a determined guy.
Saad’s the only questionable one giving up pick 8 and seemingly caving to his demands not to play on good small forwards has left the backline looking unbalanced.

Crazy watching Liam Ryan get off the chain on Stocker who clearly doesn’t have the physical tools to go with him when you have Saad on the list.

Carlton on paper should have one of the better back 6s in the league:

FB: Saad - Weitering - Plowman
HB: Docherty - Jones - Williams

7th defender: Newman/Williamson/Parks
 

mcgarnacle

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 2, 2003
8,921
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Inner West
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You’ve nailed the recruiting part.

SOS always looked for value in trades. High draft picks that wouldn’t cost a lot because of injury history or players not living up to potential. The departed list is littered with them.

Martin and McGovern also fit the bill here as to untapped potential. Williams too. Why give a guy the biggest contract at the club to play him out of position? He doesn’t look fit for a back pocket let alone a two way running mid. The recruiting team should have known this while trying to woo him over with bucket loads of cash.

Fans fell over themselves when Martin arrived at the club costing them nothing but he’s turned out to be fools gold.

Murphy and Betts shouldn’t have been given a contract for this year but that’s not their fault. I feel sorry for these guys being treated the way they are, they have been great servants of the club. Shouldn’t have been put in this position. Bad list management.

Curnow is the great white hope. Poor bloke. What a burden to have, when you are just trying to get back on the park. Doomed for failure. Agree it would be best to trade him now for good value.

Cripps you can tell has borne the weight of failure for the club on his shoulders for too long. For his sake he should get out, being pinned as a scapegoat for what’s happening on the field after all he has done is unfair for mine. But for the Blues, this culture of blame needs to stop. They need to re-sign him. If taking the captaincy away allows him to play with more freedom, so be it. But I would reward him for his service and loyalty with decent coin and see out his tenure as a Blue legend. That’s my view on him but personally I’d love him in yellow and black.
Culture of blame - nailed it.

Get rid of the scapegoat of the moment, then who's next?
 

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