When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

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Part 2 of this thread is here:

 
Jun 30, 2009
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Deroesfromgero
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How is Essendon's 600k investment in Devon Smith tracking? Getting good value out of the 800k spent on Dylan Shiel this season?

There are rubbish contracts on every list.





















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Pretty happy with how we are doing
 
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Schnitzengruben

Norm Smith Medallist
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The great thing about both these deals was Carlton having 105% of the salary cap to spend and front loaded them heavily. I’d be surprised if either were getting more than 500k currently.
It's a poor use of cap space though. That money could've been spent acquiring legitimate talent. Granted the outcome would've been largely the same due to the lack of culture/internal structures set up at Carlton.

Allowing us to pick up Carroll, Honey, Stocker, Kemp.


Imagine if we spent another million on a guy who can’t hit the side of a barn door when he isn’t missing entire seasons of footy :moustache:
I don't get it - what does Charlie Curnow have to do with this discussion?
 
It’s very low rent trolling, I’m disappointed in the quality tbh.

A lot of Bombres supporters really missing out on a golden opportunity, AND their heroic team lost to us.
Is this meant to be an example of high quality trolling?
 

RedRangerX

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Jun 23, 2021
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Teague/Silvagni handover was a massive failure for all involved. Didn't blood the kids or win matches. Mckay and Cripps can dig them out but they look to be in cap trouble now.
 
Unfortunately, he has already said he'd be interested in talking to the Pies about their senior coach gig. We can't talk to anyone officially whilst we still have our senior coach in the job.

The best thing that could happen is for Teague to resign this week so that we can fast-track the selection & interview process now.

First Choices : Lyon & Williams
Second Line : Voss & Pyke
Would be funny if Pyke hooks back up with Eddie & Gov.

We can trade you back Gibbs too if you want...
 
I need to stop coming into this thread. It's not good for my health watching opposition supporters trolling.
Not everyone mate. Very keen to see what comes out of the review.
Blues have been down for too long.
 

joy division

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Apr 22, 2015
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I think the talent is there but they're not being developed correctly or coached correctly. Window is about to open with this and I think they could have a shot but they need to start making finals. As a poster above said they're not getting belted by teams, if they sharpen up they can really go somewhere before players do start getting ants in their pants and want to leave.
 
Jul 13, 2015
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This is true, I really did set a low bar.

You know the worst part about Marc Murphy being cooked? He won't get to take over Kade Simpson's record for most losses by an AFL player.

Simpson deserves better than that, I always liked him.

Hawks have maybe recruited 2 players ever from Carlton. I always wished we got Simpson.
 

Noidnadroj

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I’m still optimistic as a Carlton fan. Players don’t want to leave. McKay and soon Cripps to re-sign. We could arguably have the best spine going forward. We have the fourth worst injury list currently and we have 3 players in important roles that are learning to play our system still. Cohesion takes 3-4 years playing together. Pittonet has heaps of upside as does TDK. Cripps has been injured all year. Charlie once he returns has only played 11 games with McKay and McGovern. Weitering and Jones are the first and fourth best one on one defenders in the AFL. Walsh will win a Brownlow in the next 2-3 years is getting tagged in his 3rd year. If Cripps had a full preseason and was fully fit that couldn’t possibly happen. Game Plan is atrocious or at least our players understanding of it is. Players hand off responsibility and give up marks easily through the middle of the ground. Particularly to GWS we always have. The last 3-4 years GWS have done this to us. Another top 5 pick with honey Durdin Ramsay Carroll kemp Boyd and parks coming on is a healthy vfl contingent of kids. We also just replaced our midfield stoppage coach (now luke power) which will take time. I don’t expect huge growth over the remaining 10 games but I did expect finals this year with what we added. But I didn’t expect so much to go wrong. It’s no coincidence the the best injury lists in the AFL are all in the top 8. Carlton have been dogged by injury for far too long.

The bad news is an in-depth analysis of injuries and the quality of player lost has Carlton with one of the best runs with injury this season. Arguably your best 9 players are Walsh, Weitering, McKay Cripps, Docherty, Jones, E Curnow, Williams and Saad? They’ve played about 113 of a possible 117 games. Including C Curnow and it’s 113 of 130.

I realise injuries have hit other players, but it’s the top-liners that really hurt you. Like the Pies losing Howe, Elliot, Grundy, Adams and now Moore.

Or Eagles losing for extended periods Shuey, Kelly, McGovern, Yeo and Hurn.

Or Richmond losing Lynch, Prestia, Edwards, Cotchin, Lambert and Nankervis.

Saints losing Gresham, Marshall, Jones, Ryder and now Clark.

The list of teams with long-term injuries to their best-10 goes on …..

So Carlton have actually had a very good run comparatively which is another concern.




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Jan 2, 2009
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The bad news is an in-depth analysis of injuries and the quality of player lost has Carlton with one of the best runs with injury this season. Arguably your best 9 players are Walsh, Weitering, McKay Cripps, Docherty, Jones, E Curnow, Williams and Saad? They’ve played about 113 of a possible 117 games. Including C Curnow and it’s 113 of 130.

I realise injuries have hit other players, but it’s the top-liners that really hurt you. Like the Pies losing Howe, Elliot, Grundy, Adams and now Moore.

Or Eagles losing for extended periods Shuey, Kelly, McGovern, Yeo and Hurn.

Or Richmond losing Lynch, Prestia, Edwards, Cotchin, Lambert and Nankervis.

Saints losing Gresham, Marshall, Jones, Ryder and now Clark.

The list of teams with long-term injuries to their best-10 goes on …..

So Carlton have actually had a very good run comparatively which is another concern.




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Nice analysis. Let’s just pick four players from every other club.
 

Noidnadroj

Norm Smith Medallist
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Nice analysis. Let’s just pick four players from every other club.

It’s showing Carlton’s ‘top tier’ players have barely missed a game. Those players listed were top-10 players from those clubs, not just plucking four players from every other club.

So any ‘fallback’ position of blaming injuries is just not based around facts…. In previous years I think its given Carlton a bit of an ‘out’ …. 2021 has probably shown the injuries have been a smokescreen for much larger problems.


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Jun 4, 2016
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It’s showing Carlton’s ‘top tier’ players have barely missed a game. Those players listed were top-10 players from those clubs, not just plucking four players from every other club.

So any ‘fallback’ position of blaming injuries is just not based around facts…. In previous years I think its given Carlton a bit of an ‘out’ …. 2021 has probably shown the injuries have been a smokescreen for much larger problems.


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agree with you on this. The injuries aren't an excuse. The club should have a strong enough system so far into a rebuild by now that a 'next man up' attitude should be in play. It isn't.
 

btdg

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The bad news is an in-depth analysis of injuries and the quality of player lost has Carlton with one of the best runs with injury this season. Arguably your best 9 players are Walsh, Weitering, McKay Cripps, Docherty, Jones, E Curnow, Williams and Saad? They’ve played about 113 of a possible 117 games. Including C Curnow and it’s 113 of 130.

I realise injuries have hit other players, but it’s the top-liners that really hurt you. Like the Pies losing Howe, Elliot, Grundy, Adams and now Moore.

Or Eagles losing for extended periods Shuey, Kelly, McGovern, Yeo and Hurn.

Or Richmond losing Lynch, Prestia, Edwards, Cotchin, Lambert and Nankervis.

Saints losing Gresham, Marshall, Jones, Ryder and now Clark.

The list of teams with long-term injuries to their best-10 goes on …..

So Carlton have actually had a very good run comparatively which is another concern.




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I think your identification of Carlton's best 10 is contentious, partly because of injuries, but also because of form. Does Williams count if he has never played a good game for Carlton? What about Docherty , who has been terrible since his knee injury (its now 4 years since he was 'in form'). Or Curnow, who hasn't played since 2019? Last year I would have included SPS but his form has been awful. I would definitely have included Fisher but he got injured, and hasn't fired a shot since returning. I can't stand Liam Jones and think he is a massive defensive liability but he to most Carlton supporters he is in. Ed Curnow? He's in the top 10 on performance, but not talent, profile amor ability. Jack Martin is out on performance, but in on talent, profile and ability.

But, if you assume their 'best' then the following players 'matter' most: Cripps, Walsh, McKay, Weitering, C Curnow, E Curnow, Docherty, Jones, Martin, McGovern, Williams, Saad, Fisher. That's probably a best 12 for me that is pretty hard to narrow further

Of those, McGovern, Martin, Charlie Curnow and Fisher have had their season crippled by injury. Cripps, Williams and to a lesser extent McKay and Saad have carried injuries. It's not a terrible run though.

I think the issue with Carlton's injuries has been that a) we play an attacking game plan and b( the injurieswr have had are/were seriously weighted to the forward line.

At one point, we had Curnow, McGovern, McDonald and De Koning injured. Casboult was playing despite a knee injury that in some matches meant he literally couldn't run. That's all the key forwards in the list - except McKay who also had a month or so playing throuhj a shoulder injury. We then also had Fisher, Martin and Silvagni injured, as well as Cuningham.

Aside from McKay and Betts (who was not best 22 at the start of the yeaf), at one point you could argue we had 9 of our best 11 forwards missing or seriously hampered. It's created opportunities for Owies, Fogarty and Gibbons but our ideal structure really hasn't been close to possible since McGovern's injury imo.

For a team with a heavily attacking gameplan, that has created issues with confidence. Teague wants the team to play on run and attack but with no one to kick to, and no one to lock the ball in once it is there. We have attacked aggressively but haphazardly and then leaked goals on the turnover, and over time confidence has just eroded. His lack of adaptability in the game plan has hurt too.

Teams can often cover a spread of injuries across the team better than multiple injuries to the same line imo. Curniw and Mcgovern are injured, I'd rather lose Ed Curnow than Casboult. If Martin and Fisher are injured I'd rather lose Williams or Saad than Cuningham. Etc.

Injuries certainly aren't the reason for our poor performance though. They have definitely contributed to game plan problems and a loss of confidence but not the root cause of our problems.
 

blue healer

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The bad news is an in-depth analysis of injuries and the quality of player lost has Carlton with one of the best runs with injury this season. Arguably your best 9 players are Walsh, Weitering, McKay Cripps, Docherty, Jones, E Curnow, Williams and Saad? They’ve played about 113 of a possible 117 games. Including C Curnow and it’s 113 of 130.

I realise injuries have hit other players, but it’s the top-liners that really hurt you. Like the Pies losing Howe, Elliot, Grundy, Adams and now Moore.

Or Eagles losing for extended periods Shuey, Kelly, McGovern, Yeo and Hurn.

Or Richmond losing Lynch, Prestia, Edwards, Cotchin, Lambert and Nankervis.

Saints losing Gresham, Marshall, Jones, Ryder and now Clark.

The list of teams with long-term injuries to their best-10 goes on …..

So Carlton have actually had a very good run comparatively which is another concern.




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Unfortunately a lot of the injuries have prevented us from seeing if some of those injured players will develop into top liners. Cuningham is the classic example of this, was just starting to show that the penny may have dropped with him, now we're a fair way from knowing this.
 
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