When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[HirdyLannister]

Luckily we don’t butcher our number one picks.

Imagine watching Hugh McCluggage dominate all year and then taking a midget back pocket with the first selection in the draft.

huh not even Carlton related, should keep on topic.

Carlton has had plenty of wooden spoons to learn from their mistakes with number 1 picks with three in a row.

 

[Soapy V]

Carltons two best young players at the moment are Kemp & Carroll. Both will be top level Mids. Both need another big pre season but when ready they will step up and make big difference to our midfield especially when you add them to Cripps Walsh etc

 

[La Dispute]

huh not even Carlton related, should keep on topic.

Carlton has had plenty of wooden spoons to learn from their mistakes with number 1 picks with three in a row.

Talking about nailing number one picks and avoiding the pitfalls of taking less talented players with Pick 1 is on topic.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

We've heard that all before with Dow, SPS, LOB, Bootsma, Cunningham, Vojo and many more top 30 picks

Carlton are sinking with only top end talent keeping them afloat, it's hard for them to soar like eagles when surrounded by turkeys.

Look forward to 2022 preseason with all the positive news of all these "guns" tearing up the training track.

You probably heard it with Harry, Weiters, Walsh, Fisher, De Koning, Stocker and Charlie as well. Don’t think top 30 picks are our issue.

FWIW Dow is tracking very well. SPS and Cuningham are handy players. You could’ve gone with Boekhurst instead.

 

[Robertio]

huh not even Carlton related, should keep on topic.

Carlton has had plenty of wooden spoons to learn from their mistakes with number 1 picks with three in a row.

We've also won a final or two in the last decade.

 

[Duece1995]

Carltons two best young players at the moment are Kemp & Carroll. Both will be top level Mids. Both need another big pre season but when ready they will step up and make big difference to our midfield especially when you add them to Cripps Walsh etc

Do you see Kemp playing midfield longterm? He's currently playing in the backline and given our lack of talls could that be where he will be groomed to stay.

 

[Ambrosia]

You probably heard it with Harry, Weiters, Walsh, Fisher, De Koning, Stocker and Charlie as well. Don’t think top 30 picks are our issue.

FWIW Dow is tracking very well. SPS and Cuningham are handy players. You could’ve gone with Boekhurst instead.

That’s a mighty low bar you’ve set for “handy players” and “tracking very well”.

The 2016 draft was a huge hit for Carlton outside of a consensus number 1 pick in Walsh its been very slim pickings since then.

Kemp looks a likely type though not many players his size move that well.

 

[Soapy V]

Do you see Kemp playing midfield longterm? He's currently playing in the backline and given our lack of talls could that be where he will be groomed to stay.

I do. I see him as a big mid who can go forward. Club is using him off HB as he gets used to playing against men and getting confidence in his body. Something Russell does with injured younger players. He did it with Setterfield

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

That’s a mighty low bar you’ve set for “handy players” and “tracking very well”.

The 2016 draft was a huge hit for Carlton outside of a consensus number 1 pick in Walsh its been very slim pickings since then.

Kemp looks a likely type though not many players his size move that well.

Both SPS and Cuningham are best 22 players. SPS still has a heap of upside if played in the right position. Neither are your typical first round bust.

Dow will be a very good mid. Was always going to take time being light on and only having the one position. Looking for some four quarter efforts over the next month.

 

[La Dispute]

That’s a mighty low bar you’ve set for “handy players” and “tracking very well”.

The 2016 draft was a huge hit for Carlton outside of a consensus number 1 pick in Walsh its been very slim pickings since then.

Kemp looks a likely type though not many players his size move that well.

Dow is tracking as well as former first rounders Langford and Laverde at the same point in time. I bet Essendon are happy they persevered, because they looked rubbish early days.

If we took Fisher at 6 and SPS at 27 our 2016 haul looks a whole lot better. Williamson is a 50/50 prospect, but I reckon he makes it. Essendon made the biggest mistake of that draft taking a light bodied back pocket at Pick 1 with McCluggage in the same pool.

The majority of players in any given 22 are ‘handy’ toilers. That’s just the reality of the talent distribution in a salary capped league. You don’t smash always smash it out of the park like we did with Walsh, Weitering and McKay.

 

[Ambrosia]

Both SPS and Cuningham are best 22 players. SPS still has a heap of upside if played in the right position. Neither are your typical first round bust.

Dow will be a very good mid. Was always going to take time being light on and only having the one position. Looking for some four quarter efforts over the next month.

SPS is a good decision maker and has clean disposal but I’m not really seeing much upside. He’s an average athlete with a small frame who has no penetration in his kicking. You’d want a lot more from top 10 pick.

Cunningham finally looked to come on this year but did his ACL but on what he’s show he’s hardly a success story having been on the list for 6 years. Not really comparable to other first rounders given he went in the 20s

I also disagree that Cunningham and SPS would be best 22 players on good teams.

Dow has improved in recent weeks but he’s still incredibly raw for a guy 4 years into his career and still wouldn’t be getting within shouting distance of decent sides midfield.

I’m on record in this thread as saying top end talent is more important than ever in today’s league and Carlton look well placed with the 2016 draft plus Walsh but surely blind Freddy could see if you hadn’t have gotten so little from your first round picks since 2016 then Carlton would sit much higher on the ladder.

There is still plenty of time for those players and Carlton draftees to turn this around and Walsh, McKay, Weitering, Cripps* and Curnow* is an enviable level of talent.

Riewoldt, Rance, Martin and Cotchin were all on Richmond’s list 7 years before they won a flag.

 

[Ambrosia]

Dow is tracking as well as former first rounders Langford and Laverde at the same point in time. I bet Essendon are happy they persevered, because they looked rubbish early days.

If we took Fisher at 6 and SPS at 27 our 2016 haul looks a whole lot better. Williamson is a 50/50 prospect, but I reckon he makes it. Essendon made the biggest mistake of that draft taking a light bodied back pocket at Pick 1 with McCluggage in the same pool.

The majority of players in any given 22 are ‘handy’ toilers. That’s just the reality of the talent distribution in a salary capped league. You don’t smash always smash it out of the park like we did with Walsh, Weitering and McKay.

Laverde isn’t comparable given his injury history and besides both went with late picks in the teens whilst Dow went at pick 3.

You’re using very different criteria in judging Essendon’s drafting when compared to Carlton’s. McGrath is clearly a very good footballer and whilst it’s disappointing that so far he doesn’t look like becoming a top 10 player in the league he’s hardly a bust or poor selection like say LOB, Dow and SPS have been so far.

I’m not sure how taking a light framed forward pocket like Fisher at pick 6 would make Carlton’s draft haul look any better.

The biggest draft bust on Essendon’s list atm is Francis even leaving the mental health concerns aside he is just a player.

 

[chunkylover53]

That’s a mighty low bar you’ve set for “handy players” and “tracking very well”.

The 2016 draft was a huge hit for Carlton outside of a consensus number 1 pick in Walsh its been very slim pickings since then.

Kemp looks a likely type though not many players his size move that well.

I was writing off Dow harder than anyone, but have you watched him play lately?

 

[Ambrosia]

I was writing off Dow harder than anyone, but have you watched him play lately?

Yeah much improved but he’s hardly “tracking very well” is he.

 

[chunkylover53]

Yeah much improved but he’s hardly “tracking very well” is he.

yeah maybe not if you look at all his games. his latest 4-5 games though he genuinely looks like a different player.

people carry on like he's 24-25 yrs old.. he's 21 competing as an inside mid. not exactly an easy position to establish yourself in.

 

[Rich01]

That’s a mighty low bar you’ve set for “handy players” and “tracking very well”.

been very slim pickings since then.

Spot on.
The expectations on these players by Carlton supporters in this thread are extremely low.

Dow looks like a 2nd tier mid at best. All sides need these, like we do with Jack Graham at Richmond. Hopefully he gets to that level at the blues. Will be handy if he does. But that shouldn’t be the expectation for a number 3 pick. He should be a match winner.

Cuningham has had good games but mostly disappointing ones. Fisher is hit and miss. Nothing to write home about. The ACL for DC will make it harder for him to progress.

SPS is meh. He’s an unassuming Atley type (who incredibly should notch 250 games). If he has a similar output to Atley from here I think that should be the expectation. But for a top 6 pick you’d expect more.

The wishy washy view on Kennedy is indicative of the players they carry on their list. Play many ordinary games and a couple of decent ones with 20 odd possessions and you are talked about as a team regular.

 

[chunkylover53]

Spot on.
The expectations on these players by Carlton supporters in this thread are extremely low.

Dow looks like a 2nd tier mid at best. All sides need these, like we do with Jack Graham at Richmond. Hopefully he gets to that level at the blues. Will be handy if he does. But that shouldn’t be the expectation for a number 3 pick. He should be a match winner.

Who cares what pick he went at? If he establishes himself as a 2nd tier mid which helps us progress up the ladder, why does it matter? Our match winning mids are Cripps and Walsh anyway.

 

[La Dispute]

Laverde isn’t comparable given his injury history and besides both went with late picks in the teens whilst Dow went at pick 3.

You’re using very different criteria in judging Essendon’s drafting when compared to Carlton’s. McGrath is clearly a very good footballer and whilst it’s disappointing that so far he doesn’t look like becoming a top 10 player in the league he’s hardly a bust or poor selection like say LOB, Dow and SPS have been so far.

I’m not sure how taking a light framed forward pocket like Fisher at pick 6 would make Carlton’s draft haul look any better.

The biggest draft bust on Essendon’s list atm is Francis even leaving the mental health concerns aside he is just a player.

Not sure how it isn't relevant? Essendon would have taken both Langford and Laverde with high hopes of them becoming decent players, and they didn't look much chop until the past couple of years.

McGrath is very overrated IMO. Just an accumulator, doesn't have that exceptional high footy IQ other former top picks like Walsh, Rowell and Weitering have. Ignoring McCluggage who dominated the championships and was every other recruiters pick was shocking.

Fisher is a gun and transforms our side when he's playing. Not currently pick 6 worthy, but around the 10-15 mark from that draft, which isn't a huge loss.

Francis could have been a very good player. Plenty would have been happy to take him at Pick 1 on what he showed in his draft year, but clearly NQR.

 

[chunkylover53]

Not sure how it isn't relevant? Essendon would have taken both Langford and Laverde with high hopes of them becoming decent players, and they didn't look much chop until the past couple of years.

McGrath is very overrated IMO. Just an accumulator, doesn't have that exceptional high footy IQ other former top picks like Walsh, Rowell and Weitering have. Ignoring McCluggage who dominated the championships and was every other recruiters pick was shocking.

Fisher is a gun and transforms our side when he's playing. Not currently pick 6 worthy, but around the 10-15 mark from that draft, which isn't a huge loss.

Francis could have been a very good player. Plenty would have been happy to take him at Pick 1 on what he showed in his draft year, but clearly NQR.

Fisher went at pick 27. He's a strong pick for that draft spot.

 

[La Dispute]

Fisher went at pick 27. He's a strong pick for that draft spot.

I'm saying if we swapped his draft position for SPS' the draft would have looked better.

 

[Ambrosia]

Not sure how it isn't relevant? Essendon would have taken both Langford and Laverde with high hopes of them becoming decent players, and they didn't look much chop until the past couple of years.

McGrath is very overrated IMO. Just an accumulator, doesn't have that exceptional high footy IQ other former top picks like Walsh, Rowell and Weitering have. Ignoring McCluggage who dominated the championships and was every other recruiters pick was shocking.

Fisher is a gun and transforms our side when he's playing. Not currently pick 6 worthy, but around the 10-15 mark from that draft, which isn't a huge loss.

Francis could have been a very good player. Plenty would have been happy to take him at Pick 1 on what he showed in his draft year, but clearly NQR.

I don’t know how someone can say McGrath is overrated accumulator then in the same sentence turn around with Fisher is gun and transforms our side.

 

[La Dispute]

I don’t know how someone can say McGrath is overrated accumulator then in the same sentence turn around with Fisher is gun and transforms our side.

Would you rather take 20 McGrath touches or 20 Zac Fisher touches?

We look far better with Zac in the side. He brings players into the game, doesn't fumble, doesn't get caught. In a team that struggles to execute a basic set play he is one of the biggest drivers through our midfield.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Who cares what pick he went at? If he establishes himself as a 2nd tier mid which helps us progress up the ladder, why does it matter? Our match winning mids are Cripps and Walsh anyway.

Exactly. Everyone is drafted to be the next superstar but not everyone has to make it. I actually think between Walsh, Harry, Charlie, Weiters and Cripps we have more than enough superstar talent. It is the next tier we are severely lacking.

No reason why Dow, SPS, Stocker, TDK, Kemp, Cuningham, SOS and Fisher (Williams/Saad/Doc/Martin) can’t fill out that reliable 5-15 group of players in time. I’m not sure if you remember Lambert, Edwards, Astbury or Vlaustin at 21 but they weren’t exactly breaking records. With time/experience and 7-10 pre-seasons they became a massive part of Richmond’s success.

 

[Ambrosia]

Would you rather take 20 McGrath touches or 20 Zac Fisher touches?

We look far better with Zac in the side. He brings players into the game, doesn't fumble, doesn't get caught. In a team that struggles to execute a basic set play he is one of the biggest drivers through our midfield.

20 Zac Fisher touches as a midfielder are nothing special. If he ever got 20 touches a HFF it might be worth comparing.

What about how Dow is supposedly the trending well as a pick 3 who is only a year younger then McGrath.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

20 Zac Fisher touches as a midfielder are nothing special. If he ever got 20 touches a HFF it might be worth comparing.

What about how Dow is supposedly the trending well as a pick 3 who is only a year younger then McGrath.

McGrath is a fine young player.