When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Mr.X]

When will this review be released?

Surely the club can release it now.. season is shot and won't make finals

Time for some tough calls and action

 

[Soapy V]

Go on

Most people know this and I am sure it will come out as a major issue in the review.

Teague plays favourites and the playing group is very divided. One major issue (and there are plenty) is the way Murphy Betts & Curnow play to their own rules and Teague lets them. They do their own thing, don't mix with the playing group and certainly don't play to team rules. NONE of them are seen as leaders among the playing group.

One key reason SOS left is he and Bolton had a clear path on the list. SOS told Betts No when he when he wanted to come back. Teague went to Liddle and overruled SOS. SOS & Bolton were also going to retire Murphy & Curnow. These two along with Simpson went to Liddle who then went to the board. It was the beginning of the end for Bolton. Not the only issue but certainly had an influence.

It is vitally important that at years end these players are moved on and Cripps/Docherty/Weierting/Walsh are allowed to lead this side into the future. It's what Cripps etc want. They are driven by success where the others are there just to play, get games and earn good money.

 

[PP34]

What, guys who are now 21-22 got plenty of chances 2 and a half years ago? Please.
Friday night was O'Brien's 3rd game in the last 2 seasons.

O’Brien played 14 games in 2019 and 18 in 2018. Had the odd moment but hardly set the world on fire.

Dow played almost every game in 2018 and 2019.

Petrevski-Seton barely missed a game until this year.

Out of those 3, O’Brien is the only one in the last 2 seasons to not play a lot of games. But he hardly set the world on fire prior and certainly wasn’t banging the door down.

My point was they got early chances and hardly had any competition for spots and I don’t think it was very beneficial to their growth.

Carlton since 2015 certainly hasn’t hesitated to play their high draft picks. It’s rubbish to claim otherwise.

I think if some of these guys have complained that a Murphy or Curnow gets games over them then they should seriously worry more about working hard and doing the right things at VFL level.

 

[Stamos]

O’Brien played 14 games in 2019 and 18 in 2018. Had the odd moment but hardly set the world on fire.

Dow played almost every game in 2018 and 2019.

Petrevski-Seton barely missed a game until this year.

Out of those 3, O’Brien is the only one in the last 2 seasons to not play a lot of games. But he hardly set the world on fire prior and certainly wasn’t banging the door down.

My point was they got early chances and hardly had any competition for spots and I don’t think it was very beneficial to their growth.

Carlton since 2015 certainly hasn’t hesitated to play their high draft picks. It’s rubbish to claim otherwise.

I'm not saying they didn't play games under Bolton, it's how they've been used under Teague.
LOB has had a total of 3 games in the last 2 years. His stats across those first 2 years were pretty similar to those of Newnes who has replaced him in the side. Needing to 'bang the door down' is only applied to some players.
Dow has only been given legitimate midfield minutes in the last 2 months. Samo has been stranded in the backline.

 

[Soapy V]

I would be moving heaven and earth to get Mark Williams as Head of Development and as a Senior Asst. Everything I hear is that he is the best at getting the potential out of players especially the young ones. They all love him. His coaching around skills based training is the best there is. His failing is that he is not a political animal and is old school and often gets off side with boards and CEOs. Given our list he is what we desperately need

 

[Soapy V]

O’Brien played 14 games in 2019 and 18 in 2018. Had the odd moment but hardly set the world on fire.

Dow played almost every game in 2018 and 2019.

Petrevski-Seton barely missed a game until this year.

Out of those 3, O’Brien is the only one in the last 2 seasons to not play a lot of games. But he hardly set the world on fire prior and certainly wasn’t banging the door down.

My point was they got early chances and hardly had any competition for spots and I don’t think it was very beneficial to their growth.

Carlton since 2015 certainly hasn’t hesitated to play their high draft picks. It’s rubbish to claim otherwise.

I think if some of these guys have complained that a Murphy or Curnow gets games over them then they should seriously worry more about working hard and doing the right things at VFL level.

Under Teague many haven't been given the chance and many only becuase of injury. If it wasn't for injury I doubt whether Dow Kennedy Stocker O'Brien Honey Williamson would have played at all. How Ramsay hasn't played defies logic

 

[Blue1980]

Yes he is

How and why? I’ve never heard this from anyone except you. He’s one of the hardest workers at the club and has managed a 200 game career off the rookie list.

 

[Blue1980]

Most people know this and I am sure it will come out as a major issue in the review.

Teague plays favourites and the playing group is very divided. One major issue (and there are plenty) is the way Murphy Betts & Curnow play to their own rules and Teague lets them. They do their own thing, don't mix with the playing group and certainly don't play to team rules. NONE of them are seen as leaders among the playing group.

One key reason SOS left is he and Bolton had a clear path on the list. SOS told Betts No when he when he wanted to come back. Teague went to Liddle and overruled SOS. SOS & Bolton were also going to retire Murphy & Curnow. These two along with Simpson went to Liddle who then went to the board. It was the beginning of the end for Bolton. Not the only issue but certainly had an influence.

It is vitally important that at years end these players are moved on and Cripps/Docherty/Weierting/Walsh are allowed to lead this side into the future. It's what Cripps etc want. They are driven by success where the others are there just to play, get games and earn good money.

I think that is rewriting history a fair bit and extrapolating things further than the truth.

We had won 4 of our previous 43 games under Bolton, the experienced players were pissed off because it was clear what we were doing wasn’t working and Bolts had completely lost sight of winning even being a metric.

If we kept going down that track no way would of we got any of Saad, Williams or Martin (some may say a good thing, I disagree) and we’d still be in the bottom 3.

Now do I think Teague has been too beholden to senior guys? Yes I do, but I also believe that problem has been rectified. Since the bye, Curnow has no longer been on ball and Murph barely in the team.

Watching games I’d say it’s ridiculous to think Curnow or Betts don’t play team football.

I think making young guys earn it is better than what bolts was doing, just playing young guys and hoping they’d eventually click.

 

[PP34]

I'm not saying they didn't play games under Bolton, it's how they've been used under Teague.
LOB has had a total of 3 games in the last 2 years. His stats across those first 2 years were pretty similar to those of Newnes who has replaced him in the side. Needing to 'bang the door down' is only applied to some players.
Dow has only been given legitimate midfield minutes in the last 2 months. Samo has been stranded in the backline.

I don’t disagree that O’Brien should have played a bit more.

Dow played like he was scared of the ball until recently. The time at VFL has seemingly helped him to rediscover some confidence and realise he can win the footy.

As for Petrevski-Seton, he is one of the young Carlton players I’ve defended a heap and I think this season has unfortunately cemented what some were saying and proving why Teague moved him down back. Under Bolton, he didn’t win the footy enough and attack contests with enough intensity. Teague has clearly thrown him down back to hide some of this weakness and he wasn’t too bad initially. Recently he got some midfield minutes and again he hasn’t got the ball enough. Unless he starts showing he can win the ball more at AFL level I think he’s on borrowed time at Carlton.

Teague has by no means been some amazing development coach. But I think this notion that he’s to blame for some of the players above not developing is a bit far fetched. It dates back to Bolton.

 

[PP34]

I think that is rewriting history a fair bit and extrapolating things further than the truth.

We had won 4 of our previous 43 games under Bolton, the experienced players were pissed off because it was clear what we were doing wasn’t working and Bolts had completely lost sight of winning even being a metric.

If we kept going down that track no way would of we got any of Saad, Williams or Martin (some may say a good thing, I disagree) and we’d still be in the bottom 3.

Now do I think Teague has been too beholden to senior guys? Yes I do, but I also believe that problem has been rectified. Since the bye, Curnow has no longer been on ball and Murph barely in the team.

Watching games I’d say it’s ridiculous to think Curnow or Betts don’t play team football.

I think making young guys earn it is better than what bolts was doing, just playing young guys and hoping they’d eventually click.

It’s like a few Carlton supporters have wiped the Bolton era from their minds.

We tried the Dees 2009 like experiment with the youngsters and it didn’t help anyone. All the midfielders who got games with ease have all struggled to be consistent at AFL level.

 

[Soapy V]

It’s like a few Carlton supporters have wiped the Bolton era from their minds.

We tried the Dees 2009 like experiment with the youngsters and it didn’t help anyone. All the midfielders who got games with ease have all struggled to be consistent at AFL level.

More like many are rewriting history. The list profile was completely different

 

[Neese]

See SPS had a great game in reserves today.

 

[PP34]

More like many are rewriting history

I stated some facts. We played all these young players mentioned and got belted every week. None of them played consistent good footy and in the case of Dow he seemingly lost all confidence. A good side would have had these guys playing VFL footy two years ago.

I’m not saying that Teague hasn’t favoured some older guys because he has. I definitely think we should have debuted another couple of players this year.

But I also think he is under a lot of pressure to win games. He doesn’t have the green shoots excuse Bolton had.

 

[Soapy V]

I stated some facts. We played all these young players mentioned and got belted every week. None of them played consistent good footy and in the case of Dow he seemingly lost all confidence. A good side would have had these guys playing VFL footy two years ago.

I’m not saying that Teague hasn’t favoured some older guys because he has. I definitely think we should have debuted another couple of players this year.

But I also think he is under a lot of pressure to win games. He doesn’t have the green shoots excuse Bolton had.

They were a lot younger and still developing. Issue for Bolton he was way too defensive. IMO if he had adjusted the game style to be more balanced we would be in a much better position now

We also have a much better list profile now. Bolton didn’t have Saad Williams Pittonet Newnes Newman Docherty and the improved experience and maturity Teague does

We also had our reserves playing at Preston which helped no one. The new VFL structure (when COVID is over) will help enormously

 

[Soapy V]

“An email reportedly sent by a member of the Blues' hierarchy labelled players “Hollywood types”, with rockstar lifestyles and egos. More footy gossip from Tony Sheahan”

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Under Teague many haven't been given the chance and many only becuase of injury. If it wasn't for injury I doubt whether Dow Kennedy Stocker O'Brien Honey Williamson would have played at all. How Ramsay hasn't played defies logic

Stocker had one good game and was in. Dow was starting mid 13 weeks ago, Williamson was in the side round one LOB likewise and then left out why we played another younger player Cottrell, Honey has been made to earn it, Kennedy played rounds 4,5 and 6. Heaven forbid we actually make players work on their game in the twos.
If LOb and Honey along with Dow and Kennedy maintain their form over the next few weeks then I’m backing the change in the way we have chose to develop players is working.

 

[Stamos]

Dow was starting mid 13 weeks ago

Yeah, started with 5 clearances in a quarter, got a cut eye and subbed out, and they dropped him. Didn't get another go for 5 weeks.

 

[Stamos]

Stocker had one good game and was in. Dow was starting mid 13 weeks ago, Williamson was in the side round one LOB likewise and then left out why we played another younger player Cottrell, Honey has been made to earn it, Kennedy played rounds 4,5 and 6. Heaven forbid we actually make players work on their game in the twos.
If LOb and Honey along with Dow and Kennedy maintain their form over the next few weeks then I’m backing the change in the way we have chose to develop players is working.

Honey is getting a go because Betts and Gibbons are injured

 

[Soapy V]

I am sure the Review will detail how poor our development has been. Worst in the AFL

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Honey is getting a go because Betts and Gibbons are injured

Most likely but he possibly could’ve been in for Owies (another player we have given a go to) who was “rested” the other week. He has also been a sub this year so has been obviously looked at and with Betts and Owies playing well it is probably a role we had covered.
for me Setterfield is probably the only player who should feel somewhat aggrieved because when he has gotten his chance he has played a role that doesn’t suit him at all. In saying that his performances don’t make me have any sympathy for him.

I just love the narrative that we have apparently always been the worst at developing talent, we then change things up and have two kids come in and play well and that somehow proves that we have been doing the wrong thing again.

 

[PP34]

Yeah, started with 5 clearances in a quarter, got a cut eye and subbed out, and they dropped him. Didn't get another go for 5 weeks.

Which was clearly the right move because he has come back in and attacked the footy with intensity we haven’t seen from him.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Yeah, started with 5 clearances in a quarter, got a cut eye and subbed out, and they dropped him. Didn't get another go for 5 weeks.

Yes he missed the next four games and had hamstring trouble in between. He was also coming off a horrible few games before being injured.

 

[Soapy V]

Which was clearly the right move because he has come back in and attacked the footy with intensity we haven’t seen from him.

Thank Luke Power

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Which was clearly the right move because he has come back in and attacked the footy with intensity we haven’t seen from him.

Exactly, comes back and plays the best footy he ever has

 

[PP34]

I am sure the Review will detail how poor our development has been. Worst in the AFL

And it dates back to Bolton.

No high draft pick had to work for anything.