When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[puppy_dog7]

Carlton remind me of us a few years ago. Overpaying for other club's recruits because they think they have the pieces in place to push for a flag. But Dow and Setterfield look sh*t, Curnow can't get on the park, Cripps will likely leave, and a lot of their best 22 mainstays (Williamson, Gibbons, Newnes, Murphy) are bog average at best. They have some nice young players but I doubt this Carlton squad achieves anything of note.

The problem is more so to do with the fact they trade in higher draft picks or hype players while they’re 2-4 years into their career, (mainly kids from GWS who can’t get regular games) with no consistent body of work to go off, just potential.
Then they act all surprised when they don’t come on and take them to finals a year or 2 later.
Bringing in Williams and Saad is a start and will help them down the track.

Saints used to do it as well, although Steele paid off we also wasted years bringing in people like Billy Longer, Mav Weller, Nathan Freeman, Tom Lee etc. we wasted draft picks in trades as well as the draft which is never good.

we broke the trend and started to bring in people like Hannebery (Rising star, Dual AA, AFLCA Player of their year, premiership player), Brad Hill (3 time premiership player, dual AA, freo BnF), Paddy Ryder (AA, Port BnF) and to a lesser extent Zak Jones and Dougal Howard who compliment our team really well, but at least we’re pretty well known quantities.
All of a sudden it’s turned us around, they’ve brought higher training and playing standards then we previously had, and players who had talent but weren’t producing consistently (Billings, Steele, Sinclair, Long, Gresham and Battle) have suddenly stepped up and started playing with more confidence and belief.

Brisbane also similar with bringing in Stef Martin, Neale and Lyons to compliment Zorko and their young midfield. And of course someone like Luke Hodge who like Hannebery for us is important in driving training/playing standards and almost being an assistant coach

 

[Jesse Custer]

They are going to have some good wins this year and some frustrating losses just like a developing side does. I think its too early to write them off though, they will be around the 10th to 8th mark.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Silvagni made a bunch of list errors.

Or more to the point, didn't get enough (or any really) wins from the rebuild.

St Kilda did the same. They made a strategic decision to load up on draft picks - but only really found 1 or 2 decent players from the lot of them! It's taken a decade and a raid on other lists to get them back on the right track list wise.

I see the same having occurred at Carlton. You just need to find at least 1 really high end player when you have that many cracks at the draft.


Also, sounds silly but the loss of Simpson has hurt. He made life much easier for the Dochertys of the world.

 

[Grrr]

Hard to read much in to a practice match though.

All I know is that the side they're putting out there is no longer young or inexperienced.

Below is the list of players 25 and under. Weitering, McKay & Walsh are the clear quality U25 guys, plus Curnow if he ever plays again. The rest are either untried or don't look up to it. SPS a real confusing one for me, had all the traits at draft time to make it and has played quite a few games now.

That's a young group as I said. You only need a few of them to come on, and from that bottom group you don't know much about other than Walsh, who will be A grade. If they can get back injured players and remain injury free this season then they will go okay next. Pick up an established mid or two.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

They will move on Teague at some point. There’s nothing surer. Carlton does not do rookie coaches. They get big names. It’s not a small-time coach’s role.

Ross Lyon waiting patiently for the call. It’s coming.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Do you think Dixon type money for Williams is a good idea?

That's a top 5 worst contract in the league.

Yeh I think it was a good move. He’s on probably similar money as we have been paying say Marchbank and Setterfield combined and we are actually getting a good player. If money was tight I wouldn’t be happy but it’s a complete non issue. We won’t lose anyone because of cap space. Our balance is what looks shot and Williams, Saad, Fogarty and Martin last year were exactly what we need. Still need another two way running mid, I guess that’s why we were after Graham too.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I'm no expert, but I don't think it works that way.

I think the eyes on screens is what they pay for. Winning or losing is largely irrelevant - except for the fact that it impacts your fixture and subsequently eyes on screens. But if you're getting primetime regardless, it simply doesn't matter.

That's why big clubs can be sh*t on-field yet get themselves healthy off-field within a season or two - whereas small clubs need a decade of success just to break even.

Carlton get Prime time anyway. They as a club should simply request it later while their young side builds up the ladder. I am sure if you ask their fans they would prefer to be 2-0 than 0-2. The league itself is being irresponsible putting Carlton in these big games first few weeks when they can achieve the same crowds and income with another club. This is exactly what is wrong with locked in games by the league. The league needs a strong Carlton, give them a chance to become a powerhouse again. Makes no sense at all.

 

[LordLucifer]

They will move on Teague at some point. There’s nothing surer. Carlton does not do rookie coaches. They get big names. It’s not a small-time coach’s role.

Ross Lyon waiting patiently for the call. It’s coming.

Sadly, I think you are right.

Lyon was a reserves coach at Carlton before getting the senior gig at the Saints.

 

[LordLucifer]

Although this is clearly a ‘let’s bag Carlton’ thread, I must say that pot shots at their good players are well wide of the mark. Cripps, Williams, Saad, Martin and Docherty are fantastic players. People writing them off are going to look silly in future.

FWIW Paddy Dow is still pretty young, I reckon he’ll come good, just needs to find his niche. Focusing on players’ deficiencies is not the big picture here. The big picture is to find what is holding them back.

What game are you watching and through what goggles ??

He has been a massive liability since returning from the knee reco's.

 

[Fadge]

Carlton get Prime time anyway. They as a club should simply request it later while their young side builds up the ladder. I am sure if you ask their fans they would prefer to be 2-0 than 0-2. The league itself is being irresponsible putting Carlton in these big games first few weeks when they can achieve the same crowds and income with another club. This is exactly what is wrong with locked in games by the league. The league needs a strong Carlton, give them a chance to become a powerhouse again. Makes no sense at all.

Carlton are still a 'young side'?!?

Blow me down with a feather....

 

[TheSunGod]

He didn’t two years ago. He looks rooted currently.

Sad if this is the case. Would take him in a heartbeat at the Suns if he was fit.

 

[LordLucifer]

Sacking Ratten was the worst decision they’ve made in 20 years.

Not only was it a stupid decision but it was handled in an appalling & totally unprofessional manner.

If Ratten had remained, he would have racked up around 10-years service in the job by now and the team would be humming along nicely.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Sadly, I think you are right.

Lyon was a reserves coach at Carlton before getting the senior gig at the Saints.

I don’t think it’ll necessarily be a failure.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Carlton are still a 'young side'?!?

Blow me down with a feather....

Developing side maybe better wording

 

[Jcpdragonx]

Although this is clearly a ‘let’s bag Carlton’ thread, I must say that pot shots at their good players are well wide of the mark. Cripps, Williams, Saad, Martin and Docherty are fantastic players. People writing them off are going to look silly in future.

FWIW Paddy Dow is still pretty young, I reckon he’ll come good, just needs to find his niche. Focusing on players’ deficiencies is not the big picture here. The big picture is to find what is holding them back.

Cripps is cooked, Williams is injury prone and was poor last year, Saad is not a team player, Martin is flakey and injury prone, Doch is washed and makes too many errors. Dow is a panic merchant who has no tank

 

[Fadge]

Developing side maybe better wording

Developing into what? A team that might one day contend for a finals position?

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Cripps is cooked, Williams is injury prone and was poor last year, Saad is not a team player, Martin is flakey and injury prone, Doch is washed and makes too many errors. Dow is a panic merchant who has no tank

Clueless.

#NuffiesOnAFLPages

 

[gingernuts]

They will move on Teague at some point. There’s nothing surer. Carlton does not do rookie coaches. They get big names. It’s not a small-time coach’s role.

Ross Lyon waiting patiently for the call. It’s coming.

Better off with Teague than a "Malthouse, Pagan, Lyon' type espc Lyon . Dont let him go to the christmas party.

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Couldn't believe all the hype and backslapping after last weeks loss to Richmond as if it was some sort of achievement to be quite close. They'd had 5 extra weeks of pre season over Richmond, this is huge. If you want to see what 5 extra weeks of pre season should look like have a look at Adelaide and Swans performances last week with similar advantages. If Carlton were going to be any good they would have given Richmond a touch up last week who looked very rusty.

Their main issue is still too many poor players, must be 10 players from last nights game that wouldnt get anywhere near a best 22 from any of last years finals sides.
Plowman, Dow, Casboult, Gibbons (even though he did ok last night), Fischer, Pittonet, Settlefield, Williamson, Petrevski-Seton, Newnes and probably even add in Murphy in the role he played last night.

Pretty ordinary best 22 with these blokes all getting a game, they need all these guys stepping up atleast 1, possible 2 levels from C-D graders to B Graders before they'll become a genuine top 8 side.

 

[iluvparis]

I conceded probably 10 years ago the game has moved past the Carlton administration and we are basically the modern version of what the Saints were in the 20th Century. We might fluke a flag somehow one day into the future but it will most likely by dumb luck rather than design.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

Clueless.

#NuffiesOnAFLPages

Just accept reality mate. You support Cartlon why would you expect anything good

 

[gingernuts]

Seems like their players don't give a fu** if they win or lose. With most of their experienced players racking up multiple spoons it kind of makes sense.

Thats the generation, just like in the real world when they dont give a toss abut turning up for work "she'll be right mate"

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Developing into what? A team that might one day contend for a finals position?

Isn’t that every clubs goal?

 

[00Stinger]

It's only taken 8 days for the Carlton supporters to have their smugness removed

 

[RAPPA]

You wouldn’t get any Carlton supporter that has been pleased with how the last decade has progressed. From coaching ineptitudes to player busts, all too often there has been a half step forward followed by 1-2 steps backwards. Putting aside views on players, the most glaring concern is a pattern of conceding multiple goals in succession. A rookie coach needs experienced, proven heads around him yet the Club persists largely with the same assistants who have been around, coincidentally, for largely around the same time that it still hasn’t made finals.