When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

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Yoda_

Hall of Famer
May 6, 2007
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Enlighten me on where this has come from?

I'm under no illusions that we have serious work to do and aren't even a finals side yet. But how has this rhetoric come so quickly? Let's look at the star power:

Cripps (26) & Docherty (27) are both former All-Australian, neither are in the best form right now but they're proven players, and have plenty of years ahead of them.

Walsh (20) is in genuine Brownlow contention and is a lock for AA at this stage.
McKay (23) is 2nd in the Coleman and also a big chance for AA if his form continues.
Weitering (23) is in AA form again after making the squad last year.

That's pretty close to an AA-ability player on every line for the next 6-7 years at least.

Below them are guys like

Saad (26), Williams (26), J. Martin (26)

That's a decent top 8 for any club, and they all have plenty of footy ahead of them.

Do we need to make changes? Absolutely. Are we underperforming? Probably. Have we completely butchered this entire rebuild? No.

People are genuinely carrying on like we're carrying an old as list with no time to turn it around.

So tell me why Essendons is brighter?

Hooker (32) is having a great year but as I just mentioned, he's 32.
McGrath (22) and Parish (23) are probably your best mids now - big tick. Neither are at the level of Walsh though.

Other key players are Stringer (27), Heppell (28), Shiel (28), and Tippa (28). All some good footy ahead of them but likely to be well on the way out when you plan on contending.

As I said, enlighten me.
And there in lies the problem. After your big 3/4, it trails away significantly. I mean Williams is a nice (looking) player but is he worth the rumoured investment? Saad is great and all but geez that pick 8 would be nice right now and perhaps a Tom Williamson could be playing Adam’s role. Surely Jack Martin isn’t in your top 8 players?

I don’t think the Blues are far off it as I tend to poke fun at. I have repeatedly insinuated that the internal development is going to drive the improvement from this current Blues list.


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Yoda_

Hall of Famer
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we're pretty average. the difference between us and maybe some of the teams that are out and out sh*t is that we're in our games, though have been flattered by the scoreboard too. no smashings...yet. most supporters are in a state of hope rather than belief that we haven't cocked up a rebuild. maybe we can turn the corner this year? we hope.

i think most of the happiness has come from winning our yearly cripple fight with essendon.
As an Essendon supporter, the only smashing handed to us has been at a team who has finished top 4 past two years. 3 losses by a combined 27 points coupled with the signs shown by the kids and most get caught up in the ‘what if’s’.


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Yoda_

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lol

Who is parting with a 2nd rounder for McGovern currently, let alone Dow?
Someone would be stupid enough. I mean some posters in here wouldn’t believe me when I stated we’d get a first rounder for Adam Saad.

Dow is still young so time on his side


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Fadge

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
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Surely Jack Martin isn’t in your top 8 players?
I'm rarely one to defend Carlton or their players, but I reckon Jack Martin is the most damaging player at Carlton when he has the ball in his hand.

A good run at it and he is comfortably in their top 5 with Cripps, Walsh, Harry and Weitering. (Excluding CCurnow given injury issues).
 

Fadge

Norm Smith Medallist
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Richmonds rebuild was on the ropes then you recruited all of Short, Prestia, Rioli, Broad, Castagna, Nankervis, Graham and Lambert across two draft/trade periods.
This is a really interesting list and exemplifies the importance of development and system ahead of how early your draft picks are.
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
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AFL Club
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Esssendon and Carlton have pretty similar age profiles running arround last Sunday arvo (numbers courtesy of carlton_99)

Number of players who have played <50 games:
Carlton - 11
Essendon - 10

Numbers of players who have played <10 games
Carlton - 4
Essendon - 4

As for new players personally I like the look of all the #6/7/8 picks that are running around for Essendon - all a good height and size for age as well
Carlton have to find two genuine wings before serious contention can begin - a couople of project talls and a small poretty much rounds out depth requirements - dont kow how many players Essendon will have ot find to round things off for them.


Both sides should be competing regularly in finals from 22/3 onwards. Will be good to see.
 

Chism

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Sep 7, 2008
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I think they can arrive when they learn how to defend. They can score but ship way too many points to be a serious finals side.
Pretty much spot on and we don’t work hard enough when we are not in possession of the ball.

We are still not running both ways and this for me is a coaching issue as we have the talent but not the mental aptitude to achieve success. All I want to see is a fit and firing Charlie Curnow really working alongside Harry.
 

Joao

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May 2, 2017
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Pretty much spot on and we don’t work hard enough when we are not in possession of the ball.

We are still not running both ways and this for me is a coaching issue as we have the talent but not the mental aptitude to achieve success. All I want to see is a fit and firing Charlie Curnow really working alongside Harry.
Yes I think some amount of it comes down to personal execution. I think Teague sets you up to attack, but the players can definitely defend better.
 

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Bunk Moreland

Hall of Famer
Sep 22, 2011
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Esssendon and Carlton have pretty similar age profiles running arround last Sunday arvo (numbers courtesy of carlton_99)

Number of players who have played <50 games:
Carlton - 11
Essendon - 10

Numbers of players who have played <10 games
Carlton - 4
Essendon - 4

As for new players personally I like the look of all the #6/7/8 picks that are running around for Essendon - all a good height and size for age as well
Carlton have to find two genuine wings before serious contention can begin - a couople of project talls and a small poretty much rounds out depth requirements - dont kow how many players Essendon will have ot find to round things off for them.


Both sides should be competing regularly in finals from 22/3 onwards. Will be good to see.
I’d be shocked if we played finals next year. Maybe 2023 at a stretch.
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
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I’d be shocked if we played finals next year. Maybe 2023 at a stretch.
You've got a decent base of experience to build fast on - keep the team together and no reason why finals isnt possible in 22 - I fully expect Carlton to be playing finals in 22 and onwards - teams aren't that far apart with best 22 on ground.
 

Blue1980

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Jun 9, 2011
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We will see, its one thing to come in a play well as a young kid for a week or two, even the season. Ask Paddy Dow. Team know nothing about you and you are allowed to play your game, you are not sore and mentally its all positive. Bet by this time next season half the kids that were impressive for the bombers are playing VFL and looking for form.
Exactly, some guys start really well and people assume progression will mean they are like Sam Walsh by their 3rd seasons, usually young guys have some fluctuating form first few years.
 

Blue1980

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Wouldnt you be furious to finish 10th after recruiting Saad and Williams on big coin? That's a statement of intent and if you don't make it then you've failed.

There is a lot of Essendon 2018 about this, big off season recuits and a terrible start to the year. In saying that we had a really strong backhalf and a lot of positivity going into 2019 but again we were trash.

You gotta love an early ladder predictor too! don't think anyone would have had Dees that high!
I’d love us to be better, I’d like us to win the flag every year, but I accept it’s a bloody hard competition, there are 17 other clubs working hard to get better too.

We just have to keep working to improve and get better, people still too fixated on flag windows, rebuild time frames etc. We are an average footy team with an average age profile, trying to get better.
 

Soapy V

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Sep 17, 2015
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I think they can arrive when they learn how to defend. They can score but ship way too many points to be a serious finals side.
Totally agree. I question our game style and especially our defensive structure. It’s poor and has been getting worse. Seems like we have no plan. Worst I have seen. Side score way too easily against us.

Until we fix that we aren’t a finals side
 

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
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And there in lies the problem. After your big 3/4, it trails away significantly. I mean Williams is a nice (looking) player but is he worth the rumoured investment? Saad is great and all but geez that pick 8 would be nice right now and perhaps a Tom Williamson could be playing Adam’s role. Surely Jack Martin isn’t in your top 8 players?

I don’t think the Blues are far off it as I tend to poke fun at. I have repeatedly insinuated that the internal development is going to drive the improvement from this current Blues list.
Sorry but you didn't address any of the arguments I raised. Nothing what you wrote demonstrates that Essendons list is more desirable than Carltons for the future.

And there in lies the problem. After your big 3/4, it trails away significantly. I mean Williams is a nice (looking) player but is he worth the rumoured investment?
Does it? I didn't even list Williams in our best 3/4. Our best 3/4 are Cripps, Walsh, Weitering and McKay.

What's Williams paycheck got to do with the future of our list? Until it directly stops us from retaining or obtaining players we require, then it's irrelevant. Williams is a nice B-Grader probably not worth the investment.

Saad is great and all but geez that pick 8 would be nice right now and perhaps a Tom Williamson could be playing Adam’s role. Surely Jack Martin isn’t in your top 8 players?
Why would that pick 8 be nice right now? Absolutely zero guarantee they would turn out as good as Saad. We've also hit the draft harder than most other clubs the past 5 years. Saads output is far greater than Williamson (who is more suited to a wing imo) and has plenty of footy ahead of him. And yeah Jack Martin is pretty good.

I don’t think the Blues are far off it as I tend to poke fun at. I have repeatedly insinuated that the internal development is going to drive the improvement from this current Blues list.
Fair enough. Tend to agree. However I think your assumption that most sane fans would want Essendons list over Carltons is pretty naive.
 

PP34

Finals MVP
Oct 8, 2009
28,503
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AFL Club
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Kane Cornes said even tho Carlton won and we'll done to them he still rather Essendon long term in winning a premiership

Going to be a few salty tweets coming Cornes way from Carlton fans I reckon LOLs
Just like Carlton were supposedly closer to a flag than the Pies at the start of 2018.

Media loves the new shiny thing.
 

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