When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

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Yoda_

Hall of Famer
May 6, 2007
30,537
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Essendon
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Parish showed no real signs of further development until this year. Basically looked like a player who'd plateaued and could easily be out of the system in a couple of years.

Being 'up to the level' is one thing, but it also means you're expendable if there are players who offer something better or different. Someone like Michael Gibbons has always looked like an AFL standard player, but when you're competing for a spot with other players who are also AFL standard your value in a given team diminishes.

Good on Parish for kicking on after a few mediocre years, but his form this year was by no means guaranteed.
Oh dear...


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Yoda_

Hall of Famer
May 6, 2007
30,537
15,463
South East Suburbs
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspurs, Melbourne Vixen
The comparison was young players take time. That's it. Stop twisting it to be more than it was
4 years in and Paddy isn’t locked in the best 18. Most 21 year olds are in the 22. Paddy was dropped earlier this season, was he not? Why?

Sure, players develop at different paces but what is stopping Paddy? Opportunity. He’s played just over half the games in the ones and plenty more in the twos. A classic teeener it seems.


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Soapy V

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 17, 2015
21,906
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4 years in and Paddy isn’t locked in the best 18. Most 21 year olds are in the 22. Paddy was dropped earlier this season, was he not? Why?

Sure, players develop at different paces but what is stopping Paddy? Opportunity. He’s played just over half the games in the ones and plenty more in the twos. A classic teeener it seems.
Had some injuries and this year was his first full pre season. Dropped when club made decision that if they can't play him midfield if won't play. Went back to play midfield and was awesome. So much so they brought him straight back in. I thought he started well against the Bombers and looked liked the Paddy I remember as a junior. Once he gets a run at it I'm confident we will see a much better player.

I'm seeing the same with Cuningham Setterfield Owies O'Brien Stocker etc. The change in Development and the Reserves is the biggest improvement at Carlton and expect it to keep getting better as the year progresses

A player like Parks can now walk in and get the right development and coaching. Makes a difference
 
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Kreuuuzeurns

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 25, 2013
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Shouldn't be. Both will be fine. Both recruited as very "young" players and would always take time. Poor development, injury and covid last year didn't help either. They are barely 21

I have been really impressed with both this pre season and now into games. Playing a role and look fitter and more mature. FINALLY playing games against quality opposition week in week out in their correct positions.

Dow is ready to play midfield and O'Brien has been working on a couple of things that have improved immensely. That is from the Coaches.

Personally, it's the best and most consistent I have seen him play since he arrived and he looks much more settled. The positive is and what the club wants is he will come in ready, with a good block of football behind him and into a role that suits and allows him to play to his strengths.

One thing about Lochie is he will bring massive improvement to our delivery inside 50.
I just don’t see it Soap.

Hope he proves me wrong.
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
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Enlighten me on where this has come from?

I'm under no illusions that we have serious work to do and aren't even a finals side yet. But how has this rhetoric come so quickly? Let's look at the star power:

Cripps (26) & Docherty (27) are both former All-Australian, neither are in the best form right now but they're proven players, and have plenty of years ahead of them.

Walsh (20) is in genuine Brownlow contention and is a lock for AA at this stage.
McKay (23) is 2nd in the Coleman and also a big chance for AA if his form continues.
Weitering (23) is in AA form again after making the squad last year.

That's pretty close to an AA-ability player on every line for the next 6-7 years at least.

Below them are guys like

Saad (26), Williams (26), J. Martin (26)

That's a decent top 8 for any club, and they all have plenty of footy ahead of them.

Do we need to make changes? Absolutely. Are we underperforming? Probably. Have we completely butchered this entire rebuild? No.

People are genuinely carrying on like we're carrying an old as list with no time to turn it around.

So tell me why Essendons is brighter?

Hooker (32) is having a great year but as I just mentioned, he's 32.
McGrath (22) and Parish (23) are probably your best mids now - big tick. Neither are at the level of Walsh though.

Other key players are Stringer (27), Heppell (28), Shiel (28), and Tippa (28). All some good footy ahead of them but likely to be well on the way out when you plan on contending.

As I said, enlighten me.
you just mentioned Cripps, walsh, Docherty (when not injured), McKay and weitering. its not a bad core of players to work with. To me its the support around them or lack of support that helps those core players is the issue.
 

Soapy V

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 17, 2015
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you just mentioned Cripps, walsh, Docherty (when not injured), McKay and weitering. its not a bad core of players to work with. To me its the support around them or lack of support that helps those core players is the issue.
Cripps Docherty Weitering McKay Walsh Pittonet/TDK Saad Williams Charlie Newman SPS Martin are our core for the next few years. That's very solid

It's now up some of to Setterfield Dow O'Brien Honey Stocker Durdin Owies Cuningham Silvagni Carroll Kemp Fisher Parks Williamson Cottrell Ramsay Philp to take the next step

I am confident that many will and we will add more at years end
 

PP34

Finals MVP
Oct 8, 2009
28,503
24,189
AFL Club
Carlton
4 years in and Paddy isn’t locked in the best 18. Most 21 year olds are in the 22. Paddy was dropped earlier this season, was he not? Why?

Sure, players develop at different paces but what is stopping Paddy? Opportunity. He’s played just over half the games in the ones and plenty more in the twos. A classic teeener it seems.


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I’m not a Dow fan after what I’ve seen over his early career but he has had a bit against him. Particularly last year.

Last year was a year I’d argue the club and fans were expecting development. Instead he had a knee injury that plagued his year and when he finally could play he had to come back playing in glorified match simulations because of the hubs. Played a game or two from memory at seniors and clearly looked injured.

If he was to turn into a player it wouldn’t be the most shocking thing considering the interruptions. I think we could see a number of players that come on slower as a result of the lack of seconds footy last year.

Looked like he was on track for a good game Sunday and cops an accidental head clash. Be nice if he could just get a run at it in the middle this year before he can be written off completely.
 

Blue1980

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 9, 2011
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Melbourne
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Had some injuries and this year was his first full pre season. Dropped when club made decision that if they can't play him midfield if won't play. Went back to play midfield and was awesome. So much so they brought him straight back in. I thought he started well against the Bombers and looked liked the Paddy I remember as a junior. Once he gets a run at it I'm confident we will see a much better player.

I'm seeing the same with Cuningham Setterfield Owies O'Brien Stocker etc. The change in Development and the Reserves is the biggest improvement at Carlton and expect it to keep getting better as the year progresses

A player like Parks can now walk in and get the right development and coaching. Makes a difference
Yes, last year when guys came in who weren’t getting regular senior games they looked miles off it, I’d largely attribute that to no footy at a lower level, aside from those 12 a side scratch matches.

Dow played ok round 1 when in midfield, and was going ok until subbed round 7. Was rubbish when shunted elsewhere to accomodate Williams and others rounds 2-4.

Williams is the one I’d be putting to a half back/wing.
 

Blue1980

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 9, 2011
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you just mentioned Cripps, walsh, Docherty (when not injured), McKay and weitering. its not a bad core of players to work with. To me its the support around them or lack of support that helps those core players is the issue.
Very true, need guys like Cuningham to play more like they did on Sunday on a regular basis.

We also have Saad and also Jones who are very consistent week to week.

Part of it is getting continuity, all the best sides have a core used to playing together.
 

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owen87

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
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The comparison was young players take time. That's it. Stop twisting it to be more than it was
And it remains wrong.

Parish played 20 games in his first season, that's not 'taking time'.

You picked the wrong comparison. That only Carlton supporters seem to be supportive of it should probably tell you that.
 

owen87

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
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Williams is the one I’d be putting to a half back/wing.
Agree with this. Doesn't strike me as the guy you want doing the heavy lifting in the middle, much better when he can use his speed and kicking to advantage and let guys like Cripps / Setterfield / Stocker / Dow / Kennedy play on the inside.

Williams on a Wing or HBF instead of Setterfield or Stocker looks a lot more dangerous to me.
 

chunkylover53

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Aug 13, 2008
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And it remains wrong.

Parish played 20 games in his first season, that's not 'taking time'.

You picked the wrong comparison. That only Carlton supporters seem to be supportive of it should probably tell you that.
Dow played 20 games in his first season as well...

You're literally arguing about nothing. Give it up.

Parish was barely a role-player his first 5 years. Essendon fans didn't even rate him, stop acting like he's been this AFL-standard contributor since his debut; he hasn't.
 

owen87

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
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Dow played 20 games in his first season as well...

You're literally arguing about nothing. Give it up.

Parish was barely a role-player his first 5 years. Essendon fans didn't even rate him, stop acting like he's been this AFL-standard contributor since his debut; he hasn't.
It's a poor comparison.

Langford is a better one of current Essendon players, a kid who's taken many years to grow in to being a somewhat useful player.

Parish was good to go from day one, Dow wasn't, and 4 years on, aside from a preseason game, looks more like bust than boom.

Carlton supporters are the only one doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on the Parish comparison. So how about you guys, give it up.
 

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
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It's a poor comparison.

Langford is a better one of current Essendon players, a kid who's taken many years to grow in to being a somewhat useful player.

Parish was good to go from day one, Dow wasn't, and 4 years on, aside from a preseason game, looks more like bust than boom.

Carlton supporters are the only one doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on the Parish comparison. So how about you guys, give it up.
Lol this is such a re-writing of history. I'd love to see some feedback on Parish from your own fans on the Essendon board over the years.

He had an ok first year then stagnated for 4 years.
 

owen87

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
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Lol this is such a re-writing of history. I'd love to see some feedback on Parish from your own fans on the Essendon board over the years.

He had an ok first year then stagnated for 4 years.
He was exiled to the HFF, the criticism was always that he wasn't being played in the midfield, and that if he wasn't in the middle, he should be traded.

Talk about re-writing of history.
 

Ambrosia

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 11, 2010
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Dow played 20 games in his first season as well...

You're literally arguing about nothing. Give it up.

Parish was barely a role-player his first 5 years. Essendon fans didn't even rate him, stop acting like he's been this AFL-standard contributor since his debut; he hasn't.
You’re the one rewriting history. How many barely role players average 20 touches off a HFF?

All of the criticism at Parish has been that he’s vanilla b grader with limited upside and tbh I don’t think his big midfield numbers have changed my mind

The notion that Darcy has made some big out of the box improvement in year 5 is ridiculous.
 

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