When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[north_lad]

While I’m sure it’s fun to pile on, I’m not sure this thread even fully captures how miserable Carlton are.

since 2013 we haven’t been in the top 8 - not even for a round.

since 2013, we have only been above .500 for 1 week (in 2016 we hit 6-5 then promptly lost 10 straight).

Our best players in the last 20 years:
- Fevola - left club in disgrace
- Judd - knee injury, not even a farewell match
- Koutoufides - phenomenal run, knee injury, never the same again
- Whitnall - kicked 81 goals as a teenager. Essentially out the league at 24 with knee problems
- Waite - Carlton prime crippled by injuries; left and went to North (zero compensation) and promptly played all 25 games his first year
- Docherty - made AA, then back to back knee injuries, now a shell of what he was
- Cripps - made AA, bad run of injuries, now a shell of what he was, likely to leave
- Murphy - AFLCA mvp in 2011. Brownlow favourite in 2012 until he had his collarbone broken; repeated the injury in 2014, never the same again
- Kreuzer - crippled by injuries, never hit his peak
- Betts - forced out by Malthouse, multple AA years at Adelaide
- Curnow - breakout year, kicked 7 goals in his last game, 3 straight knee injuries and may never play again
- Gibbs - left for Adelaide in bad circumstances, completely fell apart
- Nick Stevens - broke his neck, out of the league at 28, horrible post football legacy

Which Carlton players can we even look back on fondly from that run as having had the career they deserved? Kade Simpson (zero AA, a solid journeyman hbf)? After that it’s probably Andrew Carazzo, Heath Scotland and Ed Curnow as the guys who you might remember fondly - with almost all the others’ careers coloured by either their injuries or the nature of their departure.

Really, Sam Walsh should just get out while he can...

I didn't know this? (the forced out part). I know he was livid Waite left... I'd be keeping Ed of the two of them tbh and I loved Waitey

 

[master bate]

They've had some terrible luck. Marchbank and Charlie Curnow

30

Charlie Curnow

Age

28

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

9.7

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.8

4star

with a clean run at it would certainly improve their fortunes.

The thing that would frustrate me is how stagnant their line up has been.

They've added a few pieces here and there. Newnes was a good pick up last year as a capable 2nd best wingman, I'd gladly take him at the Dees. Fogarty was a smart buy. Gibbons a nice addition. Fisher was for some reason left out for so long then found his place again.

But even Saad is just filling the spot Simpson went out of. He'll be better than Simmo but he slots right in. Walsh moves on ball and they lack a number 1 wing option.

There's a chance it all starts to click with a few more players back in, it's not like they've been terrible so far. But it's too much losing in the same manner with the same players in the same roles struggling.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I think there's big worries. It's not a young list any more. They're still carrying a lot of veterans and their younger players just aren't kicking on.

The frustrating thing is that I think there's a lot of tools there. Weitering, McKay, Cripps and Walsh is a good core. A good second tier too (Saad, Williams, Martin, Docherty) though I think a few of them are overpaid.

The problem is that they look to be carrying too many mediocre at best players - think current Murphy, Newnes, Plowman, Pittonet, Dow. And the likes of Casboult, Jones and Curnow seem a bad fit for where Carlton are at as a footy club.

I'd be alarmed about the development of some of their kids too. SPS and Dow looked like can't miss prospects as juniors, hell they even started their AFL careers promisingly. But SPS has badly stagnated since his first couple of seasons and Dow is genuinely nearing Polson tier of dire. Where are O'Brien or Stocker, are Carlton confident they'll be good footballers? Setterfield looks OK but I'm not seeing much to say he's an elite talent (though I guess he might yet get there - at least I'm seeing year on year improvement with him compared to SPS/Dow). Only really Walsh looks particularly good. And these are all first round picks too!

They'd be praying that Cripps is merely in a slump, rather than his body potentially being cooked. He's only 26 too!

Where is that Stocker dude?

 

[Jcpdragonx]

Theyve butchered far too many picks, Teague came in and started getting wins by playing pensioners.

Cripps is shot, Dow bust, their defenders cant actually defend outside of Weitering, Setterfield is not a winger, too many players weak above the shoulders.

Poor Walsh.

 

[GC2015]

Same reason they were always barracking for Richmond. Same reason they're always pumping up Essendon as a finals contender. Lots of success-starved fans who would come out out of the woodwork if/when the Blues were to get their act together and make a serious change towards September. Good for business. Bigger ratings, more clicks, more tickets sold, more memberships sold, more beers drank, more pies eaten, more jumpers scarves and beanies sold. More money in everyone's coffers when the "Big Four" teams are up and about.

The AFL media like to push a narrative rather than reporting on the actual events. Especially at this time of year when everyone is still feeling optimistic about their team's chances.

HUUUUGE game tonight:

They had to sell Carlton v Collingwood as a clash between 2 glamorous finals aspirants rather than 2 mid-table strugglers.

Too many fanboys, not enough warranted criticism.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Where is Liam stocker ? Isn’t he a top 10 pick? Surely they need to see what he can offer

Not a top ten pick, just feels that way because so many Carlton fans raved on about how the club rated him in their top ten.

 

[PowerBaz]

VFL

 

[Chaisa]

Not a top ten pick, just feels that way because so many Carlton fans raved on about how the club rated him in their top ten.

He's the guy that they traded to downgrade their 2019 first round pick.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Mitch McGovern

11

Mitch Mcgovern

Age

31

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

189.8

3star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

1.1

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

179.6

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.0

5star

MG

218.0

4star

trade was an idiotic and pointless waste of time, picks and SC space in hindsight.

 

[premiershipvigil]

How many elite players would you say Carlton have?

Only 2: Murphy and Casboult

 

[AwwThatsApples]

About the same time Port don't choke on Preliminary Final day I dare say.

I'm not sure why you decided to bring Port Adelaide up in this context... Maybe I'm being soft-skinned but I wouldn't say losing to two dynasty teams by a single straight kick is a 'choke'

The reason a discussion like this exists in the first place is because it is now the mark of a 20-year journey which has only resulted in 4 finals appearances (All in a 5-year time span from 09-13) no top four, 10 bottom 5 finishes and 5 wooden spoons. I personally feel like the media is hesitating to crack down on Carlton as much as they should, considering most of the Fox Footy coverage tonight consisted primarily of talk about a 'new look Carlton' before its even arrived. The club has had more than enough time to get it right and wasting another push for finals will only be a continuation of the long chore of a journey which Carlton has been subjected to. I can see legitimate guns in the side being fielded in 2021, but I also see many vanilla players who probably wouldn't even be best 22 at most top 8 clubs, the list balance needs to be straightened out, and the team MUST find a way to play 4 quarters of good football. Enough of the start strong and fade/arrive unprepared and catchup horse shit, 4 quarters with no form dips is compulsory for this team to be allegeable for the top 8.

I don't know where you stand on your boys' chances, but regardless I think its justified for people of the other 17 teams to question the integrity of the club's ambitions.

 

[Igloo]

since 2013 we haven’t been in the top 8 - not even for a round.

Is this accurate? If so, holy shit that is depressing.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Unfortunately I fell for the media narrative that the Blues might be finals contenders this year despite no evidence and I tipped them tonight.

I should have known better.

The year is still young and things could turn around, but the signs don't look that great.

I expected them to be better than what they have shown. I fell for the media hype as well. I honestly thought they got their rebuild right this time, but now I'm starting to question if they have.

It has been 5 years since the start of their rebuild at the start of 2016. At this point if they are not at least competing for a finals spot this year then it would be looking like a failed rebuild.

 

[premiershipvigil]

At least they get Betts and JSOS back next week and Oscar McDonald

21

Oscar Mcdonald

Age

29

Ht

196cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

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Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

191.4

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.7

3star

MG

157.7

3star

D

14.8

4star

K

5.4

2star

HB

9.4

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.4

3star

MG

138.4

3star

should be in as well

 

[Cool Kangas]

Must win their next 2 against Freo and Gold Coast. If they don’t with Port then Brisbane to follow they could easily be 1-5 and the club will be under intense pressure

I think more like the coach will.

 

[mike123]

I didn't know this? (the forced out part). I know he was livid Waite left... I'd be keeping Ed of the two of them tbh and I loved Waitey

Didn’t force him out but was happy for him to leave so he could get Thomas

 

[Bulldog1954]

since 2013, we have only been above .500 for 1 week (in 2016 we hit 6-5 then promptly lost 10 straight).

You were 8th after you beat the Dogs in round 6 last year. Cripps even called it the biggest win of his career after the game Then lost 3 out of 4 and never got back there.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Didn’t force him out but was happy for him to leave so he could get Thomas

That is not what actually happened FWIW but I cannot be arsed revisiting ancient history.

 

[mike123]

That is not what actually happened FWIW but I cannot be arsed revisiting ancient history.

I’m sure there was more nuance to it but essentially Malthouse prioritised Thomas over Betts.

 

[Altum Volantes]

I think they’ll bounce back - tough start to the year with Richmond and Collingwood.

Still in the hunt for a 7th-10th finish, around that mark.

 

[Papa G]

Serious question. Why does the media give this club so much credit and regularly talk about them being on the verge of jumping into a finals position? After tonight's result, they've started the last nine seasons 0-2.

Their results in the last 20 years:

2001 - 5th (semi final)
2002 - 16th (wooden spoon)
2003 - 15th
2004 - 11th
2005 - 16th (wooden spoon)
2006 - 16th (wooden spoon)
2007 - 15th
2008 - 11th
2009 - 7th (elimination final)
2010 - 8th (elimination final)

2011 - 5th (semi final)
2012 - 10th
2013 - 8th (semi final)
2014 - 13th
2015 - 18th (wooden spoon)
2016 - 14th
2017 - 16th
2018 - 18th (wooden spoon)
2019 - 16th
2020 - 11th

Three finals wins, five finals appearances (their most recent of which they didn't really earn), five wooden spoons, nine bottom 4 finishes and six mid-ladder finishes that were outside the finals.

Essendon cop a lot of grief for their lack of success in the last 20 years yet they've had double the amount of finals wins Carlton have had in the last 20 years and have received 1/5 of the amount of wooden spoons Carlton have.

I know my club has performed poorly for the last 10 years as well but the media have never really talked us up as finals chances but Carlton are constantly getting pumped up by the media.

I don't get it. What's with the media love affair for Carlton?

The idiot Malbun boys club media still views everything through a 1980s VFL prism. That's why.

 

[leph]

What the hell is with him? I’ve got it in the past when he was shot after a long season, but it’s Round 2. He’s walking around the forward line like a 75yo. He stands up in contests obviously given his size, but bloody hell... slower than a wet week

I reckon it’s a mental thing now too. No other reason to look so cooked around the ground in Round 2. He just couldn’t be bothered, and kind of fair enough.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

If I was a member of Carlton I would be annoyed with who is running the club agreeing to these big blockbusters early every year. The club needs to win games as a priority and gain some confidence. Each and every year they agree to play these big games and it puts them behind the 8 ball. The coach should be demanding they get some lower placed sides to get off to the start they need to build their season on. Keeping your name in lights is not the priority, that comes with becoming a good side.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Carlton remind me of us a few years ago. Overpaying for other club's recruits because they think they have the pieces in place to push for a flag. But Dow and Setterfield look shit, Curnow can't get on the park, Cripps will likely leave, and a lot of their best 22 mainstays (Williamson, Gibbons, Newnes, Murphy) are bog average at best. They have some nice young players but I doubt this Carlton squad achieves anything of note.

 

[JHF1870]

I honestly think this is a huge issue. As a carlton supporter, I do not want to commit to him with a massive long term deal. The big games have been few and far between for a long time now.

Not really. Let's wipe off 2020, and he was top 5 in 2091