When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[Bic]

12th on the ladder with 3 wins. Never seen a supporter group so up and about being at that level.

Up and about? I think we're just happy we won a freakin' game.... Even better it is against Essendon.

We're not the Dees, mate.

 

[Le Archie]

Somehow 15th with 2 wins (coming off an embarrassing loss) are more up and about.

I get that you're trying to get a reaction but most logical Carlton fans could admit the kids at Essendon are showing a lot at the moment. Plenty to be optimistic about, future looks bright.

 

[dumb]

12th on the ladder with 3 wins. Never seen a supporter group so up and about being at that level.

Hey now. 3 wins is a lot of wins for us. Especially at this point of the year.

 

[Soapy V]

Melbourne have shocked me but good to see.

Melbourne is proof that supporters go too early on players and clubs. Petracca took until he was 23 before he really stepped up.

So many young players are now just starting to produce consistent high level performances. It also takes time to form combinations and trust. Melbourne now seem to be putting these things together

For most sides and players it takes time and longer than most expect

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I get that you're trying to get a reaction but most logical Carlton fans could admit the kids at Essendon are showing a lot at the moment. Plenty to be optimistic about, future looks bright.

For sure. But your using your kids to undermine a decent win. Parks, Stocker, Owies and Cottrell all under 10 games weren’t out of place either.

 

[Fadge]

12th on the ladder with 3 wins. Never seen a supporter group so up and about being at that level.

It's all relative, my friend...

 

[Robertio]

Kane Cornes said even tho Carlton won and we'll done to them he still rather Essendon long term in winning a premiership

Going to be a few salty tweets coming Cornes way from Carlton fans I reckon LOLs

Now that Cornes has said that it'll be Carlton to win a flag first, you can bookmark it.

 

[Robertio]

12th on the ladder with 3 wins. Never seen a supporter group so up and about being at that level.

Melbourne supporters wouldn't know anything about a good supporter group.

 

[Aphrodite]

12th on the ladder with 3 wins. Never seen a supporter group so up and about being at that level.

1964!

 

[Yoda_]

Wierd flex by Carlton and there cohort of supporters.

I mean kudos for winning an easy game the hard way against a side many tipped to be in the bottom handful of sides.

Don’t bludgeon me with “we were missing x, y, z”, Essendon had there fair share of ours and notwithstanding, every team has them.

Again, I maintain, most educated people would still like to have Essendon’s list over Carlton’s for the future.


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[owen87]

Wierd flex by Carlton and there cohort of supporters.

I mean kudos for winning an easy game the hard way against a side many tipped to be in the bottom handful of sides.

Don’t bludgeon me with “we were missing x, y, z”, Essendon had there fair share of ours and notwithstanding, every team has them.

Again, I maintain, most educated people would still like to have Essendon’s list over Carlton’s for the future.


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*their

 

[Ambrosia]

Wierd flex by Carlton and there cohort of supporters.

I mean kudos for winning an easy game the hard way against a side many tipped to be in the bottom handful of sides.

Don’t bludgeon me with “we were missing x, y, z”, Essendon had there fair share of ours and notwithstanding, every team has them.

Again, I maintain, most educated people would still like to have Essendon’s list over Carlton’s for the future.


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Its a tough call. With Essendon’s rebuild being in its infancy we have more variance in terms of what can happen.

I’ve been really encouraged by our season but I think Carlton are the safer bet going forward given they’ve got more sure things.

 

[bourbons]

Alright, enough ball sh*t.

Here's what they need to do.

Put Liam Stocker IN THE CENTRE and bloody retire Marc Murphy already, he can't have consistent impact anywhere anymore.

Lachie Plowman is one of the weakest 1 on 1 defenders in the entire comp IMO. He doesn't deserve AFL time.

SPS is horribly overrated for a first-round pick and literally can't play anywhere. Give him one last chance up forward or delist.

Eddie Betts would've retired at the end of 2019 if Carlton didn't decide to throw free money down the drain on him, put time into the younger small forwards.

Levi Casboult... May as well play Cripps at CHF the way he's going. Needs to move over, can't even compare to big Harry.

Mitch Mcgovern was a waste, a tiny bit better than Casboult, but still needs to have more forward impact.

I honestly think Cripps needs to go forward so he can make room in the midfield for the younger picks Carlton has refused to give thorough time to, he's of a decent height so should be able to help pitch in.

All in all, this is a list with a couple of diamonds in the rough (Walsh, Mackay, Weitering, Jones, Saad) but some seriously horrible and at times bottom 4 worthy list depth which has continued to leak into the best 22. The next few years in the draft need to be clean for Carlton. Curnow and Gibbons will only work in the 22 if the rest of the list is top class, and Cripps and Docherty, while brilliant individual performers in their own rights are not standing up as particularly noble leaders at the moment, the leadership at Carlton will need to change before long without a doubt.

Yeah to summarize lots of work to do, and plenty of players who need to be binned.

Agree with just about all of that - except Cripps forward. Has been tried heaps and never works.

Just about time to give Cripps 6 weeks off and see if we can get his body right I reckon. I know yesterday wasn't his worst game and he got that late running goal for some good feels, but dude is still clearly not right. Moving like a 35 year old.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Wierd flex by Carlton and there cohort of supporters.

I mean kudos for winning an easy game the hard way against a side many tipped to be in the bottom handful of sides.

Don’t bludgeon me with “we were missing x, y, z”, Essendon had there fair share of ours and notwithstanding, every team has them.

Again, I maintain, most educated people would still like to have Essendon’s list over Carlton’s for the future.


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Would like to see a McKay, Walsh and Weitering emerge from Essendon’s kids before making that call. That’s forgetting about Charlie who’d be a great bonus at this stage, and Cripps if he ever gets back to his best. Cox and Perkins look great long term.

Don’t think we’ll be poor for a while with such a strong talented core. Bottom 6 wins flags as they say. At risk of levelling out as a bottom half finals side if the likes of Cuningham, SPS, Dow and Fisher don’t become consistent performers.

 

[bourbons]

Our 2017 premiership side contained 6 players from the Wallace era. Cripps, Docerty, Betts, Murphy remain for the Blues from the pre Bolton era. Tuohy, Yarran and Henderson are the trade aways that SOS discarded but had the choice to keep.

Henderson and Tuohy wanted out from memory.

 

[Ambrosia]

Henderson and Tuohy wanted out from memory.

Fairly sure he was pushed out as Carlton didn’t come close to offering market value for him. Was a weird move to seemingly push him out and get peanuts for him at the trade table.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Kane Cornes said even tho Carlton won and we'll done to them he still rather Essendon long term in winning a premiership

Going to be a few salty tweets coming Cornes way from Carlton fans I reckon LOLs

If only we had drafted Rozee instead of Walsh he wouldn’t be saying that.

 

[chunkylover53]

Wierd flex by Carlton and there cohort of supporters.

I mean kudos for winning an easy game the hard way against a side many tipped to be in the bottom handful of sides.

Don’t bludgeon me with “we were missing x, y, z”, Essendon had there fair share of ours and notwithstanding, every team has them.

Again, I maintain, most educated people would still like to have Essendon’s list over Carlton’s for the future.


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Enlighten me on where this has come from?

I'm under no illusions that we have serious work to do and aren't even a finals side yet. But how has this rhetoric come so quickly? Let's look at the star power:

Cripps (26) & Docherty (27) are both former All-Australian, neither are in the best form right now but they're proven players, and have plenty of years ahead of them.

Walsh (20) is in genuine Brownlow contention and is a lock for AA at this stage.
McKay (23) is 2nd in the Coleman and also a big chance for AA if his form continues.
Weitering (23) is in AA form again after making the squad last year.

That's pretty close to an AA-ability player on every line for the next 6-7 years at least.

Below them are guys like

Saad (26), Williams (26), J. Martin (26)

That's a decent top 8 for any club, and they all have plenty of footy ahead of them.

Do we need to make changes? Absolutely. Are we underperforming? Probably. Have we completely butchered this entire rebuild? No.

People are genuinely carrying on like we're carrying an old as list with no time to turn it around.

So tell me why Essendons is brighter?

Hooker (32) is having a great year but as I just mentioned, he's 32.
McGrath (22) and Parish (23) are probably your best mids now - big tick. Neither are at the level of Walsh though.

Other key players are Stringer (27), Heppell (28), Shiel (28), and Tippa (28). All some good footy ahead of them but likely to be well on the way out when you plan on contending.

As I said, enlighten me.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Enlighten me on where this has come from?

I'm under no illusions that we have serious work to do and aren't even a finals side yet. But how has this rhetoric come so quickly? Let's look at the star power:

Cripps (26) & Docherty (27) are both former All-Australian, neither are in the best form right now but they're proven players, and have plenty of years ahead of them.

Walsh (20) is in genuine Brownlow contention and is a lock for AA at this stage.
McKay (23) is 2nd in the Coleman and also a big chance for AA if his form continues.
Weitering (23) is in AA form again after making the squad last year.

That's pretty close to an AA-ability player on every line for the next 6-7 years at least.

Below them are guys like

Saad (26), Williams (26), J. Martin (26)

That's a decent top 8 for any club, and they all have plenty of footy ahead of them.

Do we need to make changes? Absolutely. Are we underperforming? Probably. Have we completely butchered this entire rebuild? No.

People are genuinely carrying on like we're carrying an old as list with no time to turn it around.

So tell me why Essendons is brighter?

Hooker (32) is having a great year but as I just mentioned, he's 32.
McGrath (22) and Parish (23) are probably your best mids now - big tick. Neither are at the level of Walsh though.

Other key players are Stringer (27), Heppell (28), Shiel (28), and Tippa (28). All some good footy ahead of them but likely to be well on the way out when you plan on contending.

As I said, enlighten me.

Because like us a few years ago, all of their kids are going to reach their potential

 

[Bunk Moreland]

At the moment I reckon they’re probably 7th-8th in a good year and 10-12th in an average year

 

[bourbons]

...
Would be huge if Carlton looked at a guy like Dow and said thanks for coming and tried to get a second rounder for him. Mitch McGovern? Get a second, go for it. The easy ones are bleedingly obvious. Retire Murphy/Betts.

lol

Who is parting with a 2nd rounder for McGovern currently, let alone Dow?

 

[Ambrosia]

lol

Who is parting with a 2nd rounder for McGovern currently, let alone Dow?

McGovern probably has negative trade value atm given his inflated salary.

 

[Soapy V]

Agree with just about all of that - except Cripps forward. Has been tried heaps and never works.

Just about time to give Cripps 6 weeks off and see if we can get his body right I reckon. I know yesterday wasn't his worst game and he got that late running goal for some good feels, but dude is still clearly not right. Moving like a 35 year old.

Not suited to Teague's run and gun game style. Struggles to keep up. When fatigue kicks in and pace slows he comes back into it.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

McGovern probably has negative trade value atm given his inflated salary.

They farked up with the McGovern trade not worth the money he's on he'll be close to delist worthy the way he's playing

 

[La Dispute]

Wierd flex by Carlton and there cohort of supporters.

I mean kudos for winning an easy game the hard way against a side many tipped to be in the bottom handful of sides.

Don’t bludgeon me with “we were missing x, y, z”, Essendon had there fair share of ours and notwithstanding, every team has them.

Again, I maintain, most educated people would still like to have Essendon’s list over Carlton’s for the future.


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It's not difficult to play with a bit of freedom when no one expects you to win. Essendon still had plenty of senior experience and youngish players who were exposed early on. Look at the age differential - it's not actually a whole lot different. The Bombers have some decent young players coming through, but all rebuilding clubs have a set of names that can raffle off. That's part and parcel of having access to early picks and blooding them early on.

Carlton supporters also went through a similar phase from 2016. It's a good feeling - your young players have seemingly infinite potential, they're often bullet proof in their first couple of years and don't have the same trepidation as guys who've been in the system for a few years. They're just happy to be out there and contributing. Development and form isn't linear though, and they'll struggle at times as they're working out their game and fitting in with how the club wants them to play. At the start of their careers coaches just let them play on instinct, and don't complicate things.

Biggest plus for Essendon fans is at least they've got some key pillars locked in. Jones, Reid et al.