When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[owen87]

Proof players develop differently. Stats mean very little

Settle down Tiger he wasn't comparing them as players.

It was a terrible comparison. There was no proof or point to make, it’s simply a bad take.

You cant compare the development environment that Parish entered to the genuine build from nothing situation that Dow and his other fellow mid recruits entered into at Carlton. Parish is a far more accomplished mid than Dow is - there is no debate that can be made about that - all one has to look for is kicking ability.

Dow was and still is - an undersized inside mid playing next to a bunch of other under-sized inside mids- getting smashed week in week out for his first 2 years and injured the next. At the grand old age of 20 he has some time to develop - the tough thing for him will be to actually cement a spot in the starting midfield at Carlton - there are a few likely prospects in development in VFL right now he has to get over - I can't see him being preferred over Wiliams/Cripps/Walsh or Ed Curnow atm and he currently lacks the polish to be a HFF/mid rotation - where Martin/Williams/Fisher//Fogarty/Cuningham ( I won't mention 2-3 other you've never heard about in VFL ) all having better credentials - not to mention SPS who has (finally) been kicked out of HBF.

What Dow does have is fast hands and genuine burst speed - time will tell if he develops any other tricks.

Parish walked in to a side that had almost every senior player suspended and played full time midfield for 20 games. He was then sent to the HFF for 3 seasons. And is now playing in the middle again, and showing he’s a good AFL standard midfielder.

Even when exiled to the HFF he performed far and away better than Dow.

Dow is also not 20. He’s 21, coming up on 22, with 4 years in the system.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Parish was literally averaging better numbers than Dow from the time he was 18. Dow is now 21 and in 4 seasons has yet to put together one where he averages Parish's first season numbers.

It's a terrible comparison.

Calm down mate. The point is players take time to develop.

There were plenty of Bombers supporters bemoaning the fact that Parish was yet another smol midfielder to add to the likes of McGrath and Merit. Now Parish has overtaken them all.

 

[owen87]

Calm down mate. The point is players take time to develop.

There were plenty of Bombers supporters bemoaning the fact that Parish was yet another smol midfielder to add to the likes of McGrath and Merit. Now Parish has overtaken them all.

The criticism was always that he was vanilla, not enough of a POD to what else we have.

Nothing like Dow. The criticism about Dow is that he’s not even shown to be AFL standard.

I’m perfectly calm, it’s just a s**t take and people (who all happen to be Carlton supporters) and trying to double down and pretend it’s not.

 

[Juddernaut08]

The criticism was always that he was vanilla, not enough of a POD to what else we have.

Nothing like Dow. The criticism about Dow is that he’s not even shown to be AFL standard.

I’m perfectly calm, it’s just a sh*t take and people (who all happen to be Carlton supporters) and trying to double down and pretend it’s not.

And what was the lack of POD about? It's because you already had a bevy of smol mids.

You went off your rocker taking offence at people mentioning Parish and Dow in the same sentence. You completely missed the point that it was about patience and development. If anything it was more of a compliment to Parish, in that he's what we are hoping for.

 

[owen87]

And what was the lack of POD about? It's because you already had a bevy of smol mids.

You went off your rocker taking offence at people mentioning Parish and Dow in the same sentence. You completely missed the point that it was about patience and development. If anything it was more of a compliment to Parish, in that he's what we are hoping for.

It was, and remains, a poor comparison.

Parish is what he was from day one, an AFL standard midfielder in a midfield with too many similar types.

Dow hasn’t even demonstrated the AFL standard midfielder part, after 4 years in the system, let alone how he fits in to the team.

One is the opposite of the other.

Pretend I’ve gone off my rocker if you want to somehow make yourself feel better about Dow. It’s simply a bad comparison.

One came in to the AFL and has demonstrated from their very first game they’re up to the level. The other has had 4 seasons and has failed to do so.

It’s about as relevant as comparing Walsh and Dow.

 

[JustaBattler]

It was, and remains, a poor comparison.

Parish is what he was from day one, an AFL standard midfielder in a midfield with too many similar types.

Dow hasn’t even demonstrated the AFL standard midfielder part, after 4 years in the system, let alone how he fits in to the team.

One is the opposite of the other.

Pretend I’ve gone off my rocker if you want to somehow make yourself feel better about Dow. It’s simply a bad comparison.

One came in to the AFL and has demonstrated from their very first game they’re up to the level. The other has had 4 seasons and has failed to do so.

It’s about as relevant as comparing Walsh and Dow.

Reads like you purposefully have missed the point about player development and insist on making something out of nothing - relax, no one really cares about Dow V anyone including Parish. Carlton supporters are well aware of Dow being a pick#3 and underperforming (so far) based on his 'cost' as far as picks go. Fortunately - it doesn't really matter.

 

[Robertio]

It was, and remains, a poor comparison.

Parish is what he was from day one, an AFL standard midfielder in a midfield with too many similar types.

Dow hasn’t even demonstrated the AFL standard midfielder part, after 4 years in the system, let alone how he fits in to the team.

One is the opposite of the other.

Pretend I’ve gone off my rocker if you want to somehow make yourself feel better about Dow. It’s simply a bad comparison.

One came in to the AFL and has demonstrated from their very first game they’re up to the level. The other has had 4 seasons and has failed to do so.

It’s about as relevant as comparing Walsh and Dow.

Mate you've gone off on the wrong track here and you've been told three times now, he was not comparing Dow and Parish as players. Now sit down shut up and think about it.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

The criticism was always that he was vanilla, not enough of a POD to what else we have.

Nothing like Dow. The criticism about Dow is that he’s not even shown to be AFL standard.

I’m perfectly calm, it’s just a sh*t take and people (who all happen to be Carlton supporters) and trying to double down and pretend it’s not.

Dow’s criticism is his kicking and his lack of a second position. Which we highlighted by playing him on a half forward flank for 2 years.

Leave him in the guts and he’s a clearance machine. Had 4 in 15 minutes on Sunday before the head knock. A bit of a one trick pony as it stands but he has what it takes.

More worried about LOB than Dow.

 

[Juddernaut08]

It was, and remains, a poor comparison.

Parish is what he was from day one, an AFL standard midfielder in a midfield with too many similar types.

Dow hasn’t even demonstrated the AFL standard midfielder part, after 4 years in the system, let alone how he fits in to the team.

One is the opposite of the other.

Pretend I’ve gone off my rocker if you want to somehow make yourself feel better about Dow. It’s simply a bad comparison.

One came in to the AFL and has demonstrated from their very first game they’re up to the level. The other has had 4 seasons and has failed to do so.

It’s about as relevant as comparing Walsh and Dow.

You're still missing the point. It's time you sat down and listened for once in your life.

 

[owen87]

Reads like you purposefully have missed the point about player development and insist on making something out of nothing - relax, no one really cares about Dow V anyone including Parish. Carlton supporters are well aware of Dow being a pick#3 and underperforming (so far) based on his 'cost' as far as picks go. Fortunately - it doesn't really matter.

Mate you've gone off on the wrong track here and you've been told three times now, he was not comparing Dow and Parish as players. Now sit down shut up and think about it.

Keep shifting those goal posts. It was a poor comparison, Parish was ready to go from day one so development is a weird line to take.

If you want a player that took a few years of being maligned by supporters try Kyle Langford.

 

[owen87]

You're still missing the point. It's time you sat down and listened for once in your life.

Nope. It was a poor comparison. Sorry.

Seems all the Carlton supporters are up in arms about this. Weird that.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

If you want a player that took a few years of being maligned by supporters try Kyle Langford.

Soooo.... Parish?

 

[Robertio]

Keep shifting those goal posts. It was a poor comparison, Parish was ready to go from day one so development is a weird line to take.

If you want a player that took a few years of being maligned by supporters try Kyle Langford.

Mate i don't think you know where the goal posts are.

 

[JustaBattler]

Nope. It was a poor comparison. Sorry.

Seems all the Carlton supporters are up in arms about this. Weird that.

What is weird is the gentle treatment you are getting from a bunch of happy Carlton supporters enjoying a (yet another) win against your mob - despite having to play against the games #1 superstar in Parish - who no doubt will win multiple Brownlows and Norm Smith medals in coming years....

PMSL @ you M7.

 

[Milanista28]

Dow reminds me of Elliot Kavanagh, that's a good comparison, output and development speed very similar.

 

[La Dispute]

It was, and remains, a poor comparison.

Parish is what he was from day one, an AFL standard midfielder in a midfield with too many similar types.

Dow hasn’t even demonstrated the AFL standard midfielder part, after 4 years in the system, let alone how he fits in to the team.

One is the opposite of the other.

Pretend I’ve gone off my rocker if you want to somehow make yourself feel better about Dow. It’s simply a bad comparison.

One came in to the AFL and has demonstrated from their very first game they’re up to the level. The other has had 4 seasons and has failed to do so.

It’s about as relevant as comparing Walsh and Dow.

Parish showed no real signs of further development until this year. Basically looked like a player who'd plateaued and could easily be out of the system in a couple of years.

Being 'up to the level' is one thing, but it also means you're expendable if there are players who offer something better or different. Someone like Michael Gibbons has always looked like an AFL standard player, but when you're competing for a spot with other players who are also AFL standard your value in a given team diminishes.

Good on Parish for kicking on after a few mediocre years, but his form this year was by no means guaranteed.

 

[Ambrosia]

Parish showed no real signs of further development until this year. Basically looked like a player who'd plateaued and could easily be out of the system in a couple of years.

This just isn’t an accurate take on Parish’s production at all and it’s probably overrating his current form.

There’s a lot more too footy than racking up touches and Parish’s current form isn’t really any big leap in development it’s just more opportunity. His kicking is still suspect and still struggles with the defensive side of the game.

 

[Soapy V]

Keep shifting those goal posts. It was a poor comparison, Parish was ready to go from day one so development is a weird line to take.

If you want a player that took a few years of being maligned by supporters try Kyle Langford.

The comparison was young players take time. That's it. Stop twisting it to be more than it was

 

[Soapy V]

More worried about LOB than Dow.

Shouldn't be. Both will be fine. Both recruited as very "young" players and would always take time. Poor development, injury and covid last year didn't help either. They are barely 21

I have been really impressed with both this pre season and now into games. Playing a role and look fitter and more mature. FINALLY playing games against quality opposition week in week out in their correct positions.

Dow is ready to play midfield and O'Brien has been working on a couple of things that have improved immensely. That is from the Coaches.

Personally, it's the best and most consistent I have seen him play since he arrived and he looks much more settled. The positive is and what the club wants is he will come in ready, with a good block of football behind him and into a role that suits and allows him to play to his strengths.

One thing about Lochie is he will bring massive improvement to our delivery inside 50.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Parish is easily better than Dow lol Carlton supporters

 

[Soapy V]

Parish is easily better than Dow lol Carlton supporters

Has anyone said any different?

Parish is also 2 years older and played 60 more games. I would hope he is better

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Parish is easily better than Dow lol Carlton supporters

Nice comprehension. Severely lacking :')

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

That’s great mate but blatant trolling like your post, the one I replied to and the ones quoted beforehand are all crap and should be deleted.

Welcome to EVERY main board Carlton thread. Regular repeat offenders too.

 

[Yoda_]

It will take 3-4 years for Jones Perkins Cox Reid to be genuine finals players. That is just reality. They need 80 plus games and the body to do it

Evidence suggests three of the 4 could easily contribute in a finals side.


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[Yoda_]

Parish showed no real signs of further development until this year. Basically looked like a player who'd plateaued and could easily be out of the system in a couple of years.

Being 'up to the level' is one thing, but it also means you're expendable if there are players who offer something better or different. Someone like Michael Gibbons has always looked like an AFL standard player, but when you're competing for a spot with other players who are also AFL standard your value in a given team diminishes.

Good on Parish for kicking on after a few mediocre years, but his form this year was by no means guaranteed.

Oh dear...


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