When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[zeggie]

Obviously not what your suggesting and it's hard having a discussion around this when you keep jumping to extremes.

I have no idea what changes would be required. I'm not the yet to be announced coach. Probably would centre on personnel. Maybe it's trading out more experienced players? Perhaps rolling out Lyon's schemes will take the team more than one interrupted pre-season. Part of my point is sustainable success is the goal, not just making finals next year and if you have to sacrifice 2022 to be better across 2023-2025, this doesn't sound like an option now.

But once again you haven't answered my question which makes me think you don't like the answer.

It's not extremes at all, I would suggest your idea that a new coach who has just completed and succeeded in an interview process to get the job would walk in day 1 and tell us something they hadn't already, that "bigger changes" are required, would never occur. I suggested something that could be considered a "bigger change" and you agreed it's very unlikely. So I fail to see what bigger change could occur that would drastically alter the team's ability to make finals nor the coach's job to achieve that.

 

[master bate]

I look at it from another perspective.

'expecting to play finals' puts everyone on notice that from this point on, close enough is not good enough, mediocrity will not be tolerated and most importantly, explains why people have been pushed out the door.

If we don't want to set higher standards and work to them, we have nothing more of substance & belief to offer anyone

I don't think it particularly matters because it's better to have some standards than none, and whoever Carlton hire should also be given the year to reset expectations anyway.

But it's worth remembering that Malthouse made finals (from 9th) and ended in disaster. Where as Ross Lyon at St Kilda took over a mature finals team, missed finals the first year, snuck in to 4th but really was never a threat the next year, then peeled off back to back grand finalists. The first year and a bit was rough sailing.

I think it's better to set the standard as a commitment to success and the full club uniting towards a strategy to win a premiership. It's a loftier goal but gives you a bit more wriggle room if the incoming coach has to go backwards to go forwards.

If Carlton truly have no idea how to defend then there's a lot of easy meat on the bone for someone like Lyon, but it's also going to take more than one preseason to sort out I'd imagine. If Essendon finished 9th this year they still would've had a really good season, with a huge jump in improvement from the start to the end of the year. Rutten actively made them younger, made a lot of players settle in new positions, was willing to give up some big scores with leaking goals in order to get them playing pressure/high intensity/fast ball movement footy. Now the longer the season goes the more they are tightening their defensive mechanisms. If Essendon were getting hammered at 2-6 and didn't stick to the plan they might not be in the great position they are now for the future.

 

[bjwilliams]

It's not extremes at all, I would suggest your idea that a new coach who has just completed and succeeded in an interview process to get the job would walk in day 1 and tell us something they hadn't already, that "bigger changes" are required, would never occur. I suggested something that could be considered a "bigger change" and you agreed it's very unlikely. So I fail to see what bigger change could occur that would drastically alter the team's ability to make finals nor the coach's job to achieve that.

Thanks for the chat - don't think it's worthwhile continuing the discussion as your suggestion of a "bigger change" was trading out Walsh and McKay which is obviously ridiculous and this is the extremes I was talking about. The suggestion of me not agreeing with this as a possible outcome is my agreeance with you that "no bigger changes would be needed" is ridiculous.

Hope your club turns it around.

 

[HBF]

So when do we think Lyon will be announced as coach?

 

[Star]

So when do we think Lyon will be announced as coach?

Once Cerra and Weitering sign off on it?

 

[demondavey]

Making him sit in death row for a week was embarrassing. How’s that for a red flag Rossco

He won’t care. He is a good coach but a mercenary.

 

[demondavey]

Teague was a horrendous coach, there’s no two ways about it.

His winning percentage dropped every single year despite additional senior players added each off-season, the club sat 17th for wins against top 8 clubs, played a cooked Marc Murphy to get him to 300 games (who then decided to call it quits after his milestone match, the snake) and couldn’t coach his way out of a paper bag on game day.

His time was up.

He only coached for two years.

 

[Mesc]

He only coached for two years.

Exactly ! And it was screwed up by COVID.

 

[La Dispute]

He only coached for two years.

2 and a half, and went backwards at a rate of knots every year.

Shocking coach.

 

[Robertio]

He only coached for two years.

Mate it's not sinking in with you. he was no good.

 

[Robertio]

Exactly ! And it was screwed up by COVID.

What did Covid have to do with the way he coached?

 

[Mesc]

What did Covid have to do with the way he coached?

It didnt affect his coaching, but the fact that you guys had to play 7 games in QLD and 3 in Perth would have tested most teams

 

[demondavey]

Didn’t realise 17 other clubs weren’t impacted by COVID.

Hardwick and Clarkson took over their respective clubs at the very commencement of their rebuilds. Teague formally took over in year 5!

No self-respecting footy fan should be trotting out this asinine comparison at this point in time.

Teague basically got sacked because he wasn’t defensive enough. That’s what seemed to be the message Sayers and Liddle provided. It’s pretty obvious Sayers had his mind made up really early on, hence Teague mentioning on several occasions he didn’t get much support. It’s also obvious if this was the issue that the club should have developed the defensive side of the footy program and brought in people to facilitate that.

Teague has been absolutely hung out to dry, and it’s a pathetic representation of not offering support for your head coach. Sayers was on the board when the guy was appointed. Either MLG just appointed him without anyone having input or it was a universal agreement that Teague was your main man. Either you didn’t sound him out properly and perform due diligence in choosing your coach or you did and got it wrong.

You’re going for your 5th coach in 9 years. You dumped Ratten for a big name because you seemed obsessed with getting a name and ignoring Ratten’s progress. Bolton clearly didn’t work but Teague was given no time and clearly inadequate support. Again, you’ve opted (or will most likely) opt for Ross Lyon.

Your treatment of Teague is beyond unprofessional and embarrassing. Sayers is a pretty typical example of ‘one of the boys’ and falls into the ‘toxic masculinity’ basket. I’ve known plenty of people in the finance world who have worked with and for him and he isn’t very progressive.

 

[demondavey]

Mate it's not sinking in with you. he was no good.

Yet you backed him to the hilt only a few years back with Sayers a part of that.

 

[La Dispute]

Teague basically got sacked because he wasn’t defensive enough. That’s what seemed to be the message Sayers and Liddle provided. It’s pretty obvious Sayers had his mind made up really early on, hence Teague mentioning on several occasions he didn’t get much support. It’s also obvious if this was the issue that the club should have developed the defensive side of the footy program and brought in people to facilitate that.

Teague has been absolutely hung out to dry, and it’s a pathetic representation of not offering support for your head coach. Sayers was on the board when the guy was appointed. Either MLG just appointed him without anyone having input or it was a universal agreement that Teague was your main man. Either you didn’t sound him out properly and perform due diligence in choosing your coach or you did and got it wrong.

You’re going for your 5th coach in 9 years. You dumped Ratten for a big name because you seemed obsessed with getting a name and ignoring Ratten’s progress. Bolton clearly didn’t work but Teague was given no time and clearly inadequate support. Again, you’ve opted (or will most likely) opt for Ross Lyon.

Your treatment of Teague is beyond unprofessional and embarrassing. Sayers is a pretty typical example of ‘one of the boys’ and falls into the ‘toxic masculinity’ basket. I’ve known plenty of people in the finance world who have worked with and for him and he isn’t very progressive.

Clearly you haven’t watched enough Carlton games, he wasn’t just bad defensively he was also poor offensively and it was a complete grind having the team attack.

He plain sucked at coaching.

Still waiting for any opposition supporter to confirm they’d be happy to have him as senior coach.

 

[demondavey]

Clearly you haven’t watched enough Carlton games, he wasn’t just bad defensively he was also poor offensively and it was a complete grind having the team attack.

He plain sucked at coaching.

Still waiting for any opposition supporter to confirm they’d be happy to have him as senior coach.

Carlton looked phenomenal when they attacked. Everyone wanted to attack and score. Your problem was nobody wanted to run the other way. Probably Walsh excluded.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Not sure why Carlton copping flak for saying finals are what they expect

So they should. Almost half the teams in the bloody competition make the finals each year. It really isn’t that special an accomplishment and should be very clubs goal

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Not sure why Carlton copping flak for saying finals are what they expect

So they should. Almost half the teams in the bloody competition make the finals each year. It really isn’t that special an accomplishment and should be very clubs goal

Probably Puts the job of the new coach slightly more pressure filled, but generally I agree with you.

 

[La Dispute]

Carlton looked phenomenal when they attacked. Everyone wanted to attack and score. Your problem was nobody wanted to run the other way. Probably Walsh excluded.

Nah we looked no better than even the bottom teams when attacking.

Kudos on doing some research post Teague’s sacking though.

 

[schmuttt]

So Carlton are guaranteed finals in 2022 then? This review seems to have gone swimmingly and they’ve got all the right people in the right positions off the field.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Not sure if you're serious or not, but I took almost the exact opposite.

What interview did you watch?

Liddle had to meekly ask Sayers for permission to speak and then later Sayers shut him down from answering the only only question presented to him lol

Did you guys not see sayers nodding his head whilst Liddle was speaking ?

He was backing Liddle all the way. Liddle is now the 'MAN' at Carlton
Sayers wont be there full time as he has too much on his plate and will be guided by Liddle

 

[beema limapep]

I hope they get Ross Lyon and he fu**s that club up like he did the last two. They deserve it, awful how they have handled the last week.

2/2 clubs left in unusual circumstances. What are the chances, especially with a club where so many people have suggested its so poorly run? Will we be here at the end of 2024? Again?

 

[beema limapep]

So Carlton are guaranteed finals in 2022 then? This review seems to have gone swimmingly and they’ve got all the right people in the right positions off the field.

Surely they wont miss finals now that the review has so assuredly reached that conclusion.

No club has ever doubled down like this. Its more of the same culture from the board of promises.

 

[beema limapep]

Clearly you haven’t watched enough Carlton games, he wasn’t just bad defensively he was also poor offensively and it was a complete grind having the team attack.

He plain sucked at coaching.

Still waiting for any opposition supporter to confirm they’d be happy to have him as senior coach.

Please change username to La Defense compleye with Paris skyline.

 

[HTPunter]

Prove there is a leak mate and I'll stop posting in this thread, come on how easy is that?

Blues concerned about the amount of leaks coming out of the club

Carlton president Luke Sayers wants to put a stop to the leaks coming out of the club.

www.sen.com.au