When will we contend again?

[Crow_Sting]

Thanks for that. Probably realistic for where you are now. Frustrating for you, but realistic.

Hope this years draft and trading is kinder to you.

Not complaining with last year. Ivan Maric came over. Ellis looks a good type but may be too early to call how far he will go.

 

[d_rose1]

3 years time. i remember reading somewhere that watters said we will be a legitimate force in 3 years.

 

[benny_cousins]

Suppose StKilda had somehow won four of the games we narrowly lost in 2012.
We would have finished top 4.
Does anyone here feel that beating Sydney or Hawthorn would have been a hopeless task?
Now add an effective full back. Add a ruckman in case McEvoy is injured for a couple of weeks.
Assume Saad, Milera, Stanley, Newnes, Cripps, Ledger, Simpkin, Siposs, Dunnel and even Wilkes are all that bit better after another pre-season.
Assume the whole team is megafit and super pumped up ( even if some of it is the placebo effect ) by their altitude training.
Assume that Lenny who already had the most heart in the club, has even more after his operation.
While some players succumb to injury as they age, players like Milne, DalSanto, and Montagna have been remarkably injury free throughout their career. They will be the posterchildren for footy players in their 30's. ( does that make sense )?

Now tell me why we wont be challenging next year.

Maybe Goddard wont be there, but he hardly carried us this year. Maybe he'll motivate the team to show whats what ( like the Cats after Ablett left ).

All very good points but you have to remember, Reiwoldt, Kosi, Dal Santo, Montagna, Fisher are all on the decline as much as it hurts to say (left Hayes and Milne out because they seem to get better with age, may play in our next flag in their 40's )

I'd be very happy if we can hang around that top 8 for the next 3 years, build a big core of players 21-26 and push for a flag in 4 years.

Everyone seems to be over the fact that we may lose Goddard. It always hurts to lose a top player but I think it will be good for the club. I would be much dirtier if we did decide to pay him $800,000 a year after the last two years he's had. This way we free up a heap of money and hopefully have two 1st round draft picks. Really sets us up for that window Watters is talking about in 3 years time!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

All very good points but you have to remember, Reiwoldt, Kosi, Dal Santo, Montagna, Fisher are all on the decline as much as it hurts to say (left Hayes and Milne out because they seem to get better with age, may play in our next flag in their 40's )

I'd be very happy if we can hang around that top 8 for the next 3 years, build a big core of players 21-26 and push for a flag in 4 years.

Everyone seems to be over the fact that we may lose Goddard. It always hurts to lose a top player but I think it will be good for the club. I would be much dirtier if we did decide to pay him $800,000 a year after the last two years he's had. This way we free up a heap of money and hopefully have two 1st round draft picks. Really sets us up for that window Watters is talking about in 3 years time!

I'm not sure that DalSanto and Montagna will decline dramatically though, while I'm hoping some of the youngsters improve dramatically.
Kosi= Depth.
I agree that Fisher seems to be slowing down a little.
I like the idea of altitude training though. Basically they can improve fitness without having to do as much work - ie easier on the body, better for aging bodies.

 

[hayes]

I don't think Dal has slowed down at all yet, just frustrating that after all these years he still can't break a tag.

Out of all our midfielders I think he'll be the hardest to replace.

 

[benny_cousins]

I'm not sure that DalSanto and Montagna will decline dramatically though, while I'm hoping some of the youngsters improve dramatically.
Kosi= Depth.
I agree that Fisher seems to be slowing down a little.
I like the idea of altitude training though. Basically they can improve fitness without having to do as much work - ie easier on the body, better for aging bodies.

Dal Santo and Montagna were All Australian elite midfielders 2 years ago. While they weren't bad this year, I can't see them getting back to their best form. I'm not saying we are going to drop right off with our current list but we wont win a flag in the next 3 years. If we trade and recruit well, we can be right up their after that.

 

[stkildathunda]

Dal Santo was elite midfielder & All Australian LAST YEAR

 

[God Save Max King]

I don't think Dal has slowed down at all yet, just frustrating that after all these years he still can't break a tag.

Out of all our midfielders I think he'll be the hardest to replace.

Vic Metro MVP Nathan Hrovat has been labelled a 'Dal Santo clone'. He would be a terrific pick up for the Saints for our 2nd round pick. I really like his game. If we do decide to draft him, he will get games in his first-year. Hrovat is pretty-much ready made for AFL football, although he will probably have to be subbed on or off during the game.

 

[God Save Max King]

I think Dal Santo should be able to play for another 4 years. He has not slowed down at all. His best is outstanding, but his worst is frustrating (similar to Goddard). We should be legitimate contenders in 5 years, when Ross, Newnes, Markworth and the 2012 draftees are 22-24 and Stanley, Steven and Armitage are about 28.

 

[hayes]

Vic Metro MVP Nathan Hrovat has been labelled a 'Dal Santo clone'. He would be a terrific pick up for the Saints for our 2nd round pick. I really like his game. If we do decide to draft him, he will get games in his first-year. Hrovat is pretty-much ready made for AFL football, although he will probably have to be subbed on or off during the game.

Yeah I saw your thread on him in the draft watch. Looks like an interesting player. Would kill for another Dal Santo, do you have any concerns over his height?

 

[mysainters]

Why not next year?

If you want to be a great club, you don't drift off into the sunset.

You do the basic things well and consistently, you rejuvenate a little, and you keep believing.

 

[TassieSaint]

Chris Scott - 1 season as coach
John Longmire - 2 seasons as coach.

Granted Horse was a bit different to Scotty having been assistant previously, but still both took over an experienced list who had been up and about recently, took a fresh outlook and some tinkering with an already strong list and came up with a flag.

Who could realistically see Watters pulling this off? I'm a pessimist but two in a row isn't bad.

 

[saintersown]

I think we still have 1 year to contend. I mean i don't want to bring up a lot of what ifs but basically this season when it came down to the close ones (we had about 4) we lost all of them, ontop of that we had some loses to teams like port, bad umpiring (collingwood), aswell as basic skill errors. There were alot of improvements on the other hand, like pace, goals and youth.

I think really we are a chance next year, we beat teams like Sydney, and against the top 4 we were mostly competitive but prety much 90% of the time blew it in the last 5 minutes. Also we did have injuries to Mcevoy and then Stanley making Blake and Kosi Ruck which really did cost us a bit, not having a second ruckman (Blake really stood up).

Now im blaming it on these, im just saying these were things that helped push us down the ladder, you can't blame it on these factors because every team had issues on and off the field.

I guess what im trying to say, if we have a n O.K year with injuries, our youngens stand up as they did in 2012, i don't see why we can't challenge in 2013. But most likely after that we will either drift down or be one of those teams near the bottom of the top 8 that make finals but really, are just pretenders.

After that our next shot will be for the likes of Saad, Simpkin, Armo... its a shame to think that champions like Lenny, Dal Santo, Roo wont have a flag to their name, but i guess thats footy, just because you deserve it doesn't mean you'll get it.

 

[TassieSaint]

With Goddard leaving (and Cripps) and 2 of our direct competitors this year potentially picking up BJ, Chaplin and Knights I may choose to reconsider my previous choice

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If we can find a full back, Fisher and Gwilt can potentially be better playmakers.
I'm hoping Gwilt can get back to his pre-injury form.
Simpkin to essentially replace Blake in the backline, whether or not Blake is still on the list.
With Geary and one of the younger guys, Gram may be able to play more in the midfield.

Lenny with a whole heart will be unstoppable.

I believe that players like Fish, Gwilt ( off injury ), Lenny and Gram will benefit a lot from the altitude training.
I'm expecting to see a certain amount of rejuvination from them.

Where the team needs to improve is contested posessions and hitouts.
Goddard averaged 8.2 contested posessions per game, behind Steven, and barely in front of Armitage. He will be missed in this area.
But Ross got 7 contested out of 8 disposals in his only game. Ledger no slouch despite critisism against him.

But BJ is a terrific mark isn't he, we all saw the hanger in the GF. Nope he's behind Kosi, Raph, Riewoldt, Wilkes, McEvoy, Dempster, Stanley, Fisher, Ray, Dunnel, Sippos, average more contested marks than BJ.
Good kicking and good marking means rapid ball movement.

We do need a full back and a backup ruck. And maybe the forward line with Stanley, Riewoldt and Wilkes is a bit flimsy. We'll see.

Hitouts. I just hope McEvoy can get a bit better each year and that Stanley can stay on the ground.

 

[hayes]

^^Just on Ross, I was at the game played in against GWS and he was born for contested football. There's things you don't see when you watch on tv, same for Ledger. Both are probably a couple of preseasons away from being regulars so maybe they can be rotated through the season to help with contested ball.

If we can get a key defender and have Simpkin take the second tall to free up Fisher and Gwilt it can't be understated how much that will help the defense as well as the attack. If Simpkin can't play key position then Fisher takes the second tall with Gwilt, Siposs or Dunell to do the creating. Should be more than enough to have a crack for one more year.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

With Goddard leaving (and Cripps) and 2 of our direct competitors this year potentially picking up BJ, Chaplin and Knights I may choose to reconsider my previous choice

It's not great viewing at the moment is it. But remember we still have a lot of time to land someone as well. Who knows, ending the year with Stevens, Caddy, Hickey and someone the likes of Jaksch or Stringer might not put us in too bad a spot.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's not great viewing at the moment is it. But remember we still have a lot of time to land someone as well. Who knows, ending the year with Stevens, Caddy, Hickey and someone the likes of Jaksch or Stringer might not put us in too bad a spot.

The draft is hardly ever relevant to next seasons chances. Best bet is a bit more from Ross and Newnes.
Siposs, Cripps ( if he stays ), and Ledger should be arriving soon too.

 

[puppy_dog7]

^^Just on Ross, I was at the game played in against GWS and he was born for contested football. There's things you don't see when you watch on tv, same for Ledger. Both are probably a couple of preseasons away from being regulars so maybe they can be rotated through the season to help with contested ball.

If we can get a key defender and have Simpkin take the second tall to free up Fisher and Gwilt it can't be understated how much that will help the defense as well as the attack. If Simpkin can't play key position then Fisher takes the second tall with Gwilt, Siposs or Dunell to do the creating. Should be more than enough to have a crack for one more year.

Played all my junior football with Bastie at Horsham. He is a gun and, as you said "Born for contested footy" he won our U 17's Best and fairest in his first year when he was 14-15 years old, we also won the flag that year. When you think it's going to be a Ball up bastie would come in and rip it out from the bottom of the pack and just break out into open space. He is also a very good leader, and wouldn't be surprised if he ever became captain. Seriously great kid with a good personality and is always happy

 

[Terror Time]

All depends when we can get a hard working midfield. We should have it now but somethings not clicking in there as our clearance rate is poor. With Lenny getting on and Jones on the outer and even a mediocre player like McQualter gone who applied the 1%ers i don't know where the midfield grunt is going to come from.

Dal Santo and Montagna have done fantastic to turn themselves into inside mids but it's not enough.

Hope we draft grunt mids

 

[SaintsSeptember]

All depends when we can get a hard working midfield. We should have it now but somethings not clicking in there as our clearance rate is poor. With Lenny getting on and Jones on the outer and even a mediocre player like McQualter gone who applied the 1%ers i don't know where the midfield grunt is going to come from.

Dal Santo and Montagna have done fantastic to turn themselves into inside mids but it's not enough.

Hope we draft grunt mids

According to the post before yours we did. Also Curran and Ledger. We'll see if Cook or Cockie get a shot, and maybe we're a decent shot at the GC kid.

 

[Terror Time]

According to the post before yours we did. Also Curran and Ledger. We'll see if Cook or Cockie get a shot, and maybe we're a decent shot at the GC kid.

Then i hope they hit the weights mister universe style as we need then ready to go round 1

Why does a side like Sydney always seem to find and introduce quality midfield rotations while we are stuck with three guys carrying most of the workload year after year. This really needs to change.

 

[hayes]

This thread deserves a bump.

With possibly both first round picks and maybe more being traded away I think it's fair to say our intentions for next year are pretty clear.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Man, if we get Brown, things are really setting themselves up for a big year in 2013. A big full-back is the missing link. While I love Jones, I think our clearance work got MUCH better when we dropped him for younger insiders like Ledger and Ross. You throw those boys into the midfield, along with possibly Tom Curren, and I think our midfield will be much more dangerous. The forward will not have anything to worry about with Stanley, Riewoldt, Milne, Schneider, Wilkes, Milera, Saad, Sippos, Dunell, Markworth all factoring in it. Stanley rucking at the centre-bounces, then Macca doing the around the grounds, with (hopefully) Hickey playing supporting roles if either of those go down.

Bring on 2013.

 

[eskabah]

Interesting reading this thread... No one put Goddard into their calculations for our future.... Well before the deal was done - seems people know more about him than I did, not that that means a lot!