List Mgmt. Where are our kids at?

daddy_4_eyes

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Thread starter #1
Living in Melb I have limited visibility of our kids in the WAFL, let alone attending training to see where everyone's at. Wanted to gauge people's opinions on where our kids are it in terms of likelihood of getting games in 2018, likelihood of being genuine best 22 long term, etc.

2016: Venables, Rotham, Rioli, Waterman, Bayok, Watson.
2015: Allen, Mutimer, Cole (Parto, I think we've all seen)

I never understood the hype about Cole and suspect it's an inside joke on this forum.
 

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#3
Living in Melb I have limited visibility of our kids in the WAFL, let alone attending training to see where everyone's at. Wanted to gauge people's opinions on where our kids are it in terms of likelihood of getting games in 2018, likelihood of being genuine best 22 long term, etc.

2016: Venables, Rotham, Rioli, Waterman, Bayok, Watson.
2015: Allen, Mutimer, Cole (Parto, I think we've all seen)

I never understood the hype about Cole and suspect it's an inside joke on this forum.
Assuming they stay fit and have a full pre season I fully expect venables and rioli to be playing round 1. Watson and Waterman played good footy in wafl when they weren't injured and I suspect they should both make their debuts at some point in the first half of the season if opportunity arises. Rotham and Bayok are less likely but both showed signs of improvement last year.

Of the 2015 draftees Allen was starting to string together some form before getting injured and I suspect him and Waterman may end up fighting it out for a spot. Cole actually impressed me when he played, I think he has the tools to become a quality player. He's quick and evasive, and is willing to take the game on. He also has a fairly tidy disposal, once he adds a bit of size and learns to find the ball a bit more at AFL level I think he will be good for us. Mutimer I'm not too sure about, he did fairly decent in the WAFL but I'm not sure if he has the same scope for improvement that some of the other guys have. Parto should get a bit of midfield time this year instead of being plonked on a hff at AFL level and I think he will find a spot for himself.
 

RookiePick

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#4
Mutley sized up a lot and I think it was a bit of a two edged sword. Probably helped him at WAFL level but left him short of run in his AFL stint.

I think there is potential there. He ran to the right spot a lot of the time and looks like one of the few on our list who might find it easy to add the muscle required to play big minutes at the coal face if required. He just needs to find a better balance in his body, which should come with another pre-season or two.
 

Chris_6678

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#5
I think there is potential there. He ran to the right spot a lot of the time and looks like one of the few on our list who might find it easy to add the muscle required to play big minutes at the coal face if required. He just needs to find a better balance in his body, which should come with another pre-season or two.[/QUOTE]

Muitmer just needed to be given time in the centre.. he wasn't to bad at AFL level.
 

matt_bas

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Pretty sure they are all overseas holidaying
 

Carbine Chaos

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#7
Strong username to post content correlation.

We are definitely struggling in the kids department. We lack the depth of other clubs in terms of developing players coming through.

Mutimer and Partington appear middling talents at best to me. I prefer Cole to those two but even he doesn’t exactly project to being an amazing player at this stage.

Venables and Waterman are the clear standouts for me, should do very well.
 

WCErevival

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#8
Our 2016 crop looks good. Rotham is too underdeveloped physically atm and Bayok is unlikely to do anything but Venables, Rioli, Waterman and Watson all look like they could crack the 22 next year. I'd say Venables and Rioli are locks providing they stay fit. A lot of people that dont follow us closely have completely forgot these guys since they were injured for a lot of the year but they could all play a big part in our rebuild

2015 guys aren't as good. Partington looks to be a handy mid rotation or HF. Mutimer I dont think is going to feature much unfortunately. He's solid bodied but not that polished. Cole looked really good at WAFL level at times and if he comes on ok should move into defence at some stage.

As for Allen he has been injured so much but looks good when he is playing. Kicked 6 goals in 2 league games this year then got injured again.
 

dajesmac

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#9
2015:
Partington: Low impact accumulator, I think he will play a fair few games without ever really getting much attention ala Hutchings.
Cole: Strong bodied, physical and quick across the deck - has potential to be a good AFL level defender.
Mutimer: Not a total bust but looks like a good WAFL inside mid at best. We shall see.
Allen: When fit he's been decent for EP - needs to do well this year to retain his spot on the list.

2016:
Venables: An elite talent as a goal scoring inside mid - fingers crossed this one pans out.
Rotham: A supremely damaging outside mid on his day but has struggled playing in defence in his first season. Despite his talent, he has some obvious physical disadvantages and needs to improve next year to earn another contract. I'm optimistic though.
Rioli: Another excellent talent that may be battling weight and injury issues throughout his career - best 22 when fit though, already.
Waterman: Talent that exceeds that of most pick #77's, I'm confident he will have a decent career at AFL level as a third tall.
Watson: Talented but like Rotham has obvious flaws. He got close to a debut this year but needs to recapture that form to stay relevant.
Bayok: Seems talented but is a long shot to make it - anything we get from him above WAFL seniors is a bonus IMO.
 

daddy_4_eyes

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Thread starter #10
2015:
Partington: Low impact accumulator, I think he will play a fair few games without ever really getting much attention ala Hutchings.
Cole: Strong bodied, physical and quick across the deck - has potential to be a good AFL level defender.
Mutimer: Not a total bust but looks like a good WAFL inside mid at best. We shall see.
Allen: When fit he's been decent for EP - needs to do well this year to retain his spot on the list.

2016:
Venables: An elite talent as a goal scoring inside mid - fingers crossed this one pans out.
Rotham: A supremely damaging outside mid on his day but has struggled playing in defence in his first season. Despite his talent, he has some obvious physical disadvantages and needs to improve next year to earn another contract. I'm optimistic though.
Rioli: Another excellent talent that may be battling weight and injury issues throughout his career - best 22 when fit though, already.
Waterman: Talent that exceeds that of most pick #77's, I'm confident he will have a decent career at AFL level as a third tall.
Watson: Talented but like Rotham has obvious flaws. He got close to a debut this year but needs to recapture that form to stay relevant.
Bayok: Seems talented but is a long shot to make it - anything we get from him above WAFL seniors is a bonus IMO.
Sounds like Venables is the only genuine chance of being an A-grader?
Otherwise Sheed & Duggan have a lot riding on their shoulders.
 

Mincho

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#11
I think Partington will be the pick - just an outsider looking in.

Playing him as a high half forward is dumb.
 

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dajesmac

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#14
Havent seen DV in AFL fixture.
What makes you like Parto, if you don't mind me asking? You have made the 'vanilla' criticism of our midfield recruiting before so this comment surprises me.
 

Mincho

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#15
What makes you like Parto, if you don't mind me asking? You have made the 'vanilla' criticism of our midfield recruiting before so this comment surprises me.
He's a footballer. Natural smarts. Ok legspeed - makes good decisions.

Sheed is a one trick pony who, no legspeed and platued in his 18's year. One of the dumbest recruiting decisions I've seen.
 
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#16
He's a footballer. Natural smarts. Ok legspeed - makes good decisions.

Sheed is a one trick pony who, no legspeed and platued in his 18's year. One of the dumbest recruiting decisions I've seen.

have a look at this flog...stick to WAFL mate it's where most of your players belong
 

dajesmac

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#17
He's a footballer. Natural smarts. Ok legspeed - makes good decisions.

Sheed is a one trick pony who, no legspeed and platued in his 18's year. One of the dumbest recruiting decisions I've seen.
Even speaking as someone who preferred Acres at the time, I think that's going a bit far. Is it really up there with even the worst first round selections you've seen? I doubt it. I'd prefer to avoid the WC-Frem slinging match but can't help but feel you only have to look in your own backyard in recent years to find worse first round drafting decisions.

Lack of hurt factor is what has held Parto back so far. He put together a good season but I'd be surprised if he's better than Sheed over the stretch.
 
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#18
He's a footballer. Natural smarts. Ok legspeed - makes good decisions.

Sheed is a one trick pony who, no legspeed and platued in his 18's year. One of the dumbest recruiting decisions I've seen.
Not sure if you've seen much of Sheed at all if that's what you think. Obviously has plenty he could improve on, but for a month or 2 period this year he was comfortably our best mid. Sure he isn't quick, but he has a great kick, can stand up in tackles and knows how to kick a goal. He's only 22 and I think he's only had 1 full pre season since being drafted, and missed pretty much all of last year. He will be a quality player given time. Not sure where you freo supporters seem to get the idea that he's rubbish from.
 

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#19
Not sure if you've seen much of Sheed at all if that's what you think. Obviously has plenty he could improve on, but for a month or 2 period this year he was comfortably our best mid. Sure he isn't quick, but he has a great kick, can stand up in tackles and knows how to kick a goal. He's only 22 and I think he's only had 1 full pre season since being drafted, and missed pretty much all of last year. He will be a quality player given time. Not sure where you freo supporters seem to get the idea that he's rubbish from.
I've watched Sheed since his first year in the Subi colts program.

The problem with Dom is he simply grew quicker than his peers, he was stronger, able to shake a tackle, pushed through it simply from being stronger across his shoulders at a younger age. He never learnt the art of "freeing his arms'" and you will see it when you watch him in traffic, he does this awkward one arm wrestling manoevoure where he tries to flip the tackler over his lead shoulder. It worked a treat in 16's, worked ok in Colts for 2 years - worked ok in the 18's but there were signs he was leveling out.

Sheed doesn't have burst away legspeed, nor does he have a high octane cruising speed - he is workman like at best from contest to contest. He bought himself time at junior levels by being stronger, by waiting for the oncoming tackler to commit and dispatching them, then he'd use his very good footskills to hit a target. Not questioning the footskills in space.

As he transitioned through the colts in the Subi league team he came up against opponents who couldn't be as easily shrugged off, his kicking efficiancy went down and the number of times he was caught holding the ball went upward at a rate of knots. A casual observer would say "he's just getting used to the speed" or some other meaningless hogwash - the problem is technical, and an ingrained method of dealing with pressure.

So West Coast now have an average sped, predominantly outside midfielder - who is too slow to move away from a stoppage to use his footskills, doesn't get his arms free in traffic, because up until the AFL he hasn't needed to and as such gravitates toward the outside where he knows he can use his only weapon - his left boot.

Here's the rub and the main issue - West Coast's recruiting is an unfettered boys club - look at who is on the payroll in that department and tell me what qualification they all have to be there? It's a group of yes men and tickets from daddy picking your crop - as such you end up with limited scopes and safe picks.
 

Lyyynnnchy

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#20
I've watched Sheed since his first year in the Subi colts program.

The problem with Dom is he simply grew quicker than his peers, he was stronger, able to shake a tackle, pushed through it simply from being stronger across his shoulders at a younger age. He never learnt the art of "freeing his arms'" and you will see it when you watch him in traffic, he does this awkward one arm wrestling manoevoure where he tries to flip the tackler over his lead shoulder. It worked a treat in 16's, worked ok in Colts for 2 years - worked ok in the 18's but there were signs he was leveling out.

Sheed doesn't have burst away legspeed, nor does he have a high octane cruising speed - he is workman like at best from contest to contest. He bought himself time at junior levels by being stronger, by waiting for the oncoming tackler to commit and dispatching them, then he'd use his very good footskills to hit a target. Not questioning the footskills in space.

As he transitioned through the colts in the Subi league team he came up against opponents who couldn't be as easily shrugged off, his kicking efficiancy went down and the number of times he was caught holding the ball went upward at a rate of knots. A casual observer would say "he's just getting used to the speed" or some other meaningless hogwash - the problem is technical, and an ingrained method of dealing with pressure.

So West Coast now have an average sped, predominantly outside midfielder - who is too slow to move away from a stoppage to use his footskills, doesn't get his arms free in traffic, because up until the AFL he hasn't needed to and as such gravitates toward the outside where he knows he can use his only weapon - his left boot.

Here's the rub and the main issue - West Coast's recruiting is an unfettered boys club - look at who is on the payroll in that department and tell me what qualification they all have to be there? It's a group of yes men and tickets from daddy picking your crop - as such you end up with limited scopes and safe picks.
Agree with your last paragraph...and thats it. As mentioned earlier there was a run of 3 or 4 games where Sheed was our best mid over that period.
 
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#21
I've watched Sheed since his first year in the Subi colts program.

The problem with Dom is he simply grew quicker than his peers, he was stronger, able to shake a tackle, pushed through it simply from being stronger across his shoulders at a younger age. He never learnt the art of "freeing his arms'" and you will see it when you watch him in traffic, he does this awkward one arm wrestling manoevoure where he tries to flip the tackler over his lead shoulder. It worked a treat in 16's, worked ok in Colts for 2 years - worked ok in the 18's but there were signs he was leveling out.

Sheed doesn't have burst away legspeed, nor does he have a high octane cruising speed - he is workman like at best from contest to contest. He bought himself time at junior levels by being stronger, by waiting for the oncoming tackler to commit and dispatching them, then he'd use his very good footskills to hit a target. Not questioning the footskills in space.

As he transitioned through the colts in the Subi league team he came up against opponents who couldn't be as easily shrugged off, his kicking efficiancy went down and the number of times he was caught holding the ball went upward at a rate of knots. A casual observer would say "he's just getting used to the speed" or some other meaningless hogwash - the problem is technical, and an ingrained method of dealing with pressure.

So West Coast now have an average sped, predominantly outside midfielder - who is too slow to move away from a stoppage to use his footskills, doesn't get his arms free in traffic, because up until the AFL he hasn't needed to and as such gravitates toward the outside where he knows he can use his only weapon - his left boot.

Here's the rub and the main issue - West Coast's recruiting is an unfettered boys club - look at who is on the payroll in that department and tell me what qualification they all have to be there? It's a group of yes men and tickets from daddy picking your crop - as such you end up with limited scopes and safe picks.
You'll get no arguments from me on the boys club, I don't think we're going anywhere meaningful until someone says enough and starts holding these guys accountable. The problem starts at the top with Nisbett, he has to go and only then will we start seeing the necessary changes.

However I have to disagree on Sheed. He isn't anywhere near as prone to getting caught HTB you make him sound, he only averages 0.5 frees against a game, and I don't think majority of those would be HTB. Personally I find his ability to stand up in a tackle and get his arms free as a strength of his, and I think he will only improve in that area as time goes on as he hasn't been able to build and maintain as much muscle as he could've if not for shoulder and chest injuries the last couple of years. 60% of his disposals are kicks so I'm not sure how you think he's too slow to move away from stoppages to use his footskills? Despite the high kick to handball ratio, he still has a disposal efficiency of 71% which is relatively good. Stats will tell you he's predominantly outside at the moment but you also have to consider he hasn't been given as much on ball time as he should've because of Priddis' lack of flexibility to play anywhere else and Mitchell's inclusion this year, so Sheed has been forced to spend more time in the forwardline or on the outside of contests. He still managed 40% contested possessions, and that will only increase next year.

Fair enough you seem to have seen more of Sheed than I gave you credit for, but I think your assessment of his trajectory is way off the mark. Between round 8 and 20 he averaged 25 disposals, 10 contested possessions, 4 clearances and just under a goal a game. Those are great numbers for a guy playing his 3rd full year as 4th or 5th fiddle in the midfield. Not sure what else you can expect? If he can get similar output to that over a full year then he will be a weapon for us.
 

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#22
Agree with your last paragraph...and thats it. As mentioned earlier there was a run of 3 or 4 games where Sheed was our best mid over that period.
You don't have to agree. Just an observation, but given what West Coast could have had, and what they now have - it was a monumental error.
 

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#23
So West Coast now have an average sped, predominantly outside midfielder - who is too slow to move away from a stoppage to use his footskills, doesn't get his arms free in traffic, because up until the AFL he hasn't needed to and as such gravitates toward the outside where he knows he can use his only weapon - his left boot.
You may want to edit this bit
 
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#24
I agree that our drafting has generally been pretty poor. And that rather than seeing the club acknowledging this and expending lots of energy and resources in an ongoing quest for sustained improved performance in this area the blokes running the club seem to be feeling very comfortable and happy with themselves and are not striving for anything.

And, as for the the drafting department themselves instead of recognising their poor performances and obvious limitations they are doubling down on their poor records by trading out picks in a strong draft for multiple picks in a week draft and therefore backing themselves to be smarter than and to outdo all the other clubs and find winners in a weak draft where the other clubs are not expecting to see many.

Need a clean out at the top of the administration and somebody to come in who is prepared to ruthlessly and relentlessly push for better performance, upend a few apple carts by sacking underperformers and recruit some footy department talent from other clubs. Won't happen while Nisbett is there though.
 
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