Analysis Where are we actually at as a club?

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gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
43,148
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Well there’s no doubt we’ve been successful in bringing in quality trades. And now the club is making a concerted effort to bring in quality draft picks. So we can’t really judge which worked better until next year. But they’re making the right moves and are obviously aware of the ratio being skewed

The normal way to build up is bring in bulk kids, play them together, fill the gaps with some missing pieces through trades and FA and have a crack. We have culled the list, replaced with the top ups that you usually take while in challenge mode and are now topping up with kids.

It has the danger of being a middling list with no youth coming through and a bunch of GOPs who are too old to do much with. Essendon and Carlton have followed similar top up models and with Essendon it was going hard at top end youth that seems to have made the biggest difference. Fremantle is more the traditional model of rebuild where they carry over a few older players and top up heavily with youth.
 

ScrappyDo

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 29, 2018
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I think our biggest problem is we dont have much home grown talent. Our midfield has been traded from other clubs.

Steele
Crouch
Jones
ryder

Look at all of the great premiership teams hawthorn richmond geelong melb bulldogs wc. They All have homegrown talent who have come through the ranks organically together to form dynasties. You need to have a solid base of homegrown stars then add to that as you need. We are doing everything backwards. Useing bandaids to fill holes instead of growing our own. Shows how poor we have been at developing talent plus poor draft pick choices have set us back.

I hope this is now on the agenda to fix this otherwise we could be in no mans land for a very long time.
In another year or two our primary group of home grown players aught be Hunter, Coff, Pato, King, Bytel, Bynes, Wilkie, Highmore, Bytel, Gresh, Marshall, Ross, Billings and you can probably put Membrey and one or two of this years draft draftees in there too.

I'm not sure it matters too much with guys like Steele, Snaggs, Jones and Doogs either. These guys bring heaps and will bleed for the jumper.
 

ScrappyDo

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The normal way to build up is bring in bulk kids, play them together, fill the gaps with some missing pieces through trades and FA and have a crack. We have culled the list, replaced with the top ups that you usually take while in challenge mode and are now topping up with kids.

It has the danger of being a middling list with no youth coming through and a bunch of GOPs who are too old to do much with. Essendon and Carlton have followed similar top up models and with Essendon it was going hard at top end youth that seems to have made the biggest difference. Fremantle is more the traditional model of rebuild where they carry over a few older players and top up heavily with youth.
The thing is we couldn't follow the traditional model because those older guys in Roo, Joey, Dempster, Armo and Stuv were all expired or destroyed in the first attempt. We had to bring older guys or we'd have ended up like the Suns did in their first 7 years having a bunch of kids getting belted week in week out.
 

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Saint Watto

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Oct 24, 2016
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The thing is we couldn't follow the traditional model because those older guys in Roo, Joey, Dempster, Armo and Stuv were all expired or destroyed in the first attempt. We had to bring older guys or we'd have ended up like the Suns did in their first 7 years having a bunch of kids getting belted week in week out.
That's the thing ScrappyDo.......we lost a lot of experience very very quickly........

Armo and Dempster as you say.

2017.......Roo and Joey retire at the end of the season

2018.......Koby Stevens(concussion).....Robbo(heart condition).

2019........Stuv(personal issues)

2020......Nathan Brown.

At the end of 2019....we had a side with many GOP's and some gaping holes in the list

I often think about this ....what if we just went to the draft in 2019/20 and just took our picks with minimal trades coming it.

I absolutely dread to think where the club would be right now.

We certainly couldn't afford in any shape or form several years again down at the foot of the ladder
 

Ephemeral Hope

Club Legend
Apr 24, 2021
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The normal way to build up is bring in bulk kids, play them together, fill the gaps with some missing pieces through trades and FA and have a crack. We have culled the list, replaced with the top ups that you usually take while in challenge mode and are now topping up with kids.

It has the danger of being a middling list with no youth coming through and a bunch of GOPs who are too old to do much with. Essendon and Carlton have followed similar top up models and with Essendon it was going hard at top end youth that seems to have made the biggest difference. Fremantle is more the traditional model of rebuild where they carry over a few older players and top up heavily with youth.
bowing completely out of the trade this year and investing completely into the draft would be their roll of the dice to see if we can do a Port Adelaide 2018 or an Essendon 2020. If these kids can come in as a group and develop together into a solid core then we're laughing and the list is in a good spot. If not then they'll have to reassess. But I'm glad to see they've identified the issue and are taking a chance. Only way we'll know if its worked is at the end of next year or at least half way through.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
43,148
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The thing is we couldn't follow the traditional model because those older guys in Roo, Joey, Dempster, Armo and Stuv were all expired or destroyed in the first attempt. We had to bring older guys or we'd have ended up like the Suns did in their first 7 years having a bunch of kids getting belted week in week out.

I think commercially it would have been catastrophic as well.
 

PlayerNumber9

Number 9
Mar 6, 2017
75
330
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Well you are obviously happy with half full stadiums mostly filled with opposition supporters. The club winning games will fix it but the game day experience will need work too. The club has a sense of lacking energy and it gives that vibe on game day.
What do you want in the “game day experience”? I don’t see the other Melbourne clubs doing a whole lot different (e.g. Melbourne, Collingwood, North) although the dogs do get to play Who Let The Dogs Out ad nauseam. Do you want us to all cry to a silly song like Port Adelaide, or should we put a guitarist on the roof like the sandgropers?

What I want in my game day experience is stands packed with saints supporters all cheering for their team, and I think that’s what most want - a sense of belonging. No amount of songs or games can improve on that.


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PlayerNumber9

Number 9
Mar 6, 2017
75
330
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Again, downplaying us as a weak club. Set the bar low, so when we fail it isn't far to fall.

Membership levels mean nothing to how many people turn up to a game. What they are going to see when they get there means everything. I'd pay for three seats if I was guaranteed of a decent spectacle.

What they have been serving up for the last 10 years means our attendance is low.
Historically we have had low membership and attendance, that is a plain fact.

I would argue that too many saints fans don’t turn up unless they expect to see a good win, so far too many stay at home. That’s why gringo feels like we’re outnumbered by oppo supporters.

How do we fix it? The easy answer is to win almost all of our home games, then after a couple of seasons doing that, crowds might improve.

Just don’t confuse a real problem with an excuse.


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MordySaint

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Jun 2, 2012
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What do you want in the “game day experience”? I don’t see the other Melbourne clubs doing a whole lot different (e.g. Melbourne, Collingwood, North) although the dogs do get to play Who Let The Dogs Out ad nauseam. Do you want us to all cry to a silly song like Port Adelaide, or should we put a guitarist on the roof like the sandgropers?

Tell you what would make a game day experience for me:

Pre Game - right before we run out:

  • Play the last minute of the 1966 grand final on the big screen

  • Inter dispersed in the video show some modern highlights

  • At the 50 second point of the video - show Riewoldts mark against Sydney

  • At the 40 second point of the video - show Gehrig slotting his 100th

  • At the 30 second point of the video - show Goddards mark in the 2010 Grand Final

  • At the 20 second pont of the video - show Winmar taking his mark of the year

  • Then show the last 20 seconds of the 1966 grand final


Do that I will be frothing before every game....
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
43,148
110,198
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Historically we have had low membership and attendance, that is a plain fact.

I would argue that too many saints fans don’t turn up unless they expect to see a good win, so far too many stay at home. That’s why gringo feels like we’re outnumbered by oppo supporters.

How do we fix it? The easy answer is to win almost all of our home games, then after a couple of seasons doing that, crowds might improve.

Just don’t confuse a real problem with an excuse.


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You can help the experience so that people come to games. Kayo makes attendance optional.
 

tomjoad

Club Legend
Jun 17, 2018
1,843
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Yeah, I'm attracted to the feral animal enclosure stuff and Saints disco stories. It's not a history full of glory but it's a nut job club with an inglorious past. Celebrate the past aim high for the future. We are the Keith Richards of footy clubs, you can't kill us no matter how much self destructive stupidity we put ourselves through. Some won't get it and think it's all a bit tragic but I love an outsider and an under dog who defies the system.
...but are we talented enough to get away with it? Old Keith is a handy guitar player...St. Kilda is the club handed a set of clackers and told to hide behind the curtain opposite the ding dong with the feckin' triangle.
 
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tomjoad

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Jun 17, 2018
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In another year or two our primary group of home grown players aught be Hunter, Coff, Pato, King, Bytel, Bynes, Wilkie, Highmore, Bytel, Gresh, Marshall, Ross, Billings and you can probably put Membrey and one or two of this years draft draftees in there too.

I'm not sure it matters too much with guys like Steele, Snaggs, Jones and Doogs either. These guys bring heaps and will bleed for the jumper.
Until it's contract renewal/ & or free agency time anyway. The environment is very different to what it used to be for both club and player. Loyalty is conditional upon dollars over years...and even then it doesn't necessarily transfer. Sometimes you just get a bog average mercenary, or a coasting shadow chaser, that you're stuck with for years.
 
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tomjoad

Club Legend
Jun 17, 2018
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bowing completely out of the trade this year and investing completely into the draft would be their roll of the dice to see if we can do a Port Adelaide 2018 or an Essendon 2020. If these kids can come in as a group and develop together into a solid core then we're laughing and the list is in a good spot. If not then they'll have to reassess. But I'm glad to see they've identified the issue and are taking a chance. Only way we'll know if its worked is at the end of next year or at least half way through.
The roll of the dice had better be mid orientated...mids, mids, and more mids. We need an army of them coming through. Operation Bing will cripple us for the next couple of years, so we need to be clever and switched d'fook ON for this draft.
 

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jwikked

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Sep 20, 2009
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Tell you what would make a game day experience for me:

Pre Game - right before we run out:

  • Play the last minute of the 1966 grand final on the big screen

  • Inter dispersed in the video show some modern highlights

  • At the 50 second point of the video - show Riewoldts mark against Sydney

  • At the 40 second point of the video - show Gehrig slotting his 100th

  • At the 30 second point of the video - show Goddards mark in the 2010 Grand Final

  • At the 20 second pont of the video - show Winmar taking his mark of the year

  • Then show the last 20 seconds of the 1966 grand final


Do that I will be frothing before every game....
LOVE IT
 

austinnn

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What do you want in the “game day experience”? I don’t see the other Melbourne clubs doing a whole lot different (e.g. Melbourne, Collingwood, North) although the dogs do get to play Who Let The Dogs Out ad nauseam. Do you want us to all cry to a silly song like Port Adelaide, or should we put a guitarist on the roof like the sandgropers?

What I want in my game day experience is stands packed with saints supporters all cheering for their team, and I think that’s what most want - a sense of belonging. No amount of songs or games can improve on that.


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Disagree.

 

austinnn

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Tell you what would make a game day experience for me:

Pre Game - right before we run out:

  • Play the last minute of the 1966 grand final on the big screen

  • Inter dispersed in the video show some modern highlights

  • At the 50 second point of the video - show Riewoldts mark against Sydney

  • At the 40 second point of the video - show Gehrig slotting his 100th

  • At the 30 second point of the video - show Goddards mark in the 2010 Grand Final

  • At the 20 second pont of the video - show Winmar taking his mark of the year

  • Then show the last 20 seconds of the 1966 grand final


Do that I will be frothing before every game....
Just off the top of my head:

Have a Jack To The Future camera: Play the vision of The Boy Who Would Be Snags in the crowd of that epic match against Brisbane where we beat them by 120 pts and Milney scored 11, then switch to some highlights of the current day Snags as a Saints player, then switch again to a live roving camera picking out really young Saints fans in the crowd. What kid would not want to be the Snags of the future?

Have a Saint Killing It! Busking Competition outside the stadium, Battle Of The Buskers, each doing their very different version of our club song, and inside the ground play videos of the different versions at half time and get the crowd to vote on the best version with their cheers. Winner goes into the comp for the next home game, winner at the end of the season gets video uploaded onto club website. Live roving camera picks out someone cheering for the winning busker each week, that person wins a signed T shirt.

Academy pre-match Scratch match, look to the future kind of thing, live interview from Academy head talking about the most promising players.

Play that awesome membership ad from a couple of years ago with Eric Bana narrating, and update it a little. You know the one:


In fact, play a selection of different membership ads from different years, the retro feel and old cult heroes should entertain people.

When we score a goal, have an animation of our cartoon mascot (St Trevor?) ascending to heaven, which I guess would be a big premiership cup or RSEA park with a 2022 premiership flag proudly flying. The crowd has to make a noise (a "Whoa!" or just screaming or yelling), and the mascot goes higher and higher depending on how loud the noise is. The power of prayer, innit ;)

Get Ed "Sherrin" Sheehan to record a song for us, play it while the team comes out. Not a massive fan of his music but it's very popular and its a shitload better than Weddings Parties Anything.

That fat bogan YouTube comedian with the mullet who's a Saints fan, get him in for a bit of stand up before the game starts, bit of comedy loosens everyone up and makes for a happier night.

G-Train's Arm Wrestling Competition with a non-playing player or coach and an adult Saints fan from the crowd. If the fan wins, they get a t-shirt signed by the elusive Fraser Gehrig.

Who Wants To Be A Millionaire Saint. Choose a kid from the crowd; play a video of the grandfather of one of the current players who was a Saints fan when they were young, grandad is talking about his grandson, how he was as a kid and how he came to be a saints fan, no names or identifying elements. The kid has 4 possible choices of players to choose from. They use the information and what grandad looks like to help them guess. If they get it right, they get a photo taken with that player. EDIT: although we do have a handful of players who were Saints fans, would probably have to extend this to all players, regardless of their previous allegiances.

Who Wants To Be A Millionaire Saint Vintage edition. Have photos of some of 4 of our less famous players from long ago, choose an adult from the audience, if they can identify all 4 players, they win a $100 voucher at the Social Club restaurant or something like that.

I'm sure you guys could think of more ideas too.
 
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Red White Black

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Sep 22, 2016
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Just saw Callum Wilkie, Ivan Soldo, and Jason Johannisen at the Burleigh Pavilion

Johannisen with his Mrs, Ivan surrounded by blokes and Wilkie chasing tail. On this information alone Wilkie is primed for a big 2022, lock for AA
 

sunny3193

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Sep 28, 2016
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Just off the top of my head:

Have a Jack To The Future camera: Play the vision of The Boy Who Would Be Snags in the crowd of that epic match against Brisbane where we beat them by 120 pts and Milney scored 11, then switch to some highlights of the current day Snags as a Saints player, then switch again to a live roving camera picking out really young Saints fans in the crowd. What kid would not want to be the Snags of the future?

Have a St Kilda busking competition outside the stadium, Battle Of The Buskers, each doing their very different version of our club song, and inside the ground play videos of the different versions at half time and get the crowd to vote on the best version with their cheers. Winner goes into the comp for the next home game, winner at the end of the season gets video uploaded onto club website. Live roving camera picks out someone cheering for the winning busker each week, that person wins a signed T shirt.

Academy pre-match Scratch match, look to the future kind of thing, live interview from Academy head talking about the most promising players.

Play that awesome membership ad from a couple of years ago with Eric Bana narrating, and update it a little. You know the one:


In fact, play a selection of different membership ads from different years, the retro feel and old cult heroes should entertain people.

When we score a goal, have an animation of our cartoon mascot (St Trevor?) ascending to heaven, which I guess would be a big premiership cup or RSEA park with a 2022 premiership flag proudly flying. The crowd has to make a noise (a "Whoa!" or just screaming or yelling), and the mascot goes higher and higher depending on how loud the noise is. The power of prayer, innit ;)

Get Ed "Sherrin" Sheehan to record a song for us, play it while the team comes out. Not a massive fan of his music but it's very popular and its a shitload better than Weddings Parties Anything.

That fat bogan YouTube comedian with the mullet who's a Saints fan, get him in for a bit of stand up before the game starts, bit of comedy loosens everyone up and makes for a happier night.

G-Train's Arm wrestling competition with a non-playing player or coach and an adult Saints fan from the crowd. If the fan wins, they get a t-shirt signed by the elusive Fraser Gehrig.

Who Wants To Be A Millionaire Saint. Choose a kid from the crowd; play a video of the grandfather of one of the current players who was a Saints fan when they were young, grandad is talking about his grandson, how he was as a kid and how he came to be a saints fan, no names or identifying elements. The kid has 4 possible choices of players to choose from. They use the information and what grandad looks like to help them guess. If they get it right, they get a photo taken with that player.

Who Wants To Be A Millionaire Saint Vintage edition. Have photos of some of 4 of our less famous players from long ago, choose an adult from the audience, if they can identify all 4 players, they win a $100 voucher at the Social Club restaurant or something like that.

I'm sure you guys could think of more ideas too.
Were you living in Melbourne in 97?
If you were, did you get down to Moorabbin for the last training run?
Thousands were there.
The team ran out then faced the Grandstand and then Stan took them through a haka style warm up.
The crowd went crazy.
He’d pinched it from the US Marines from memory.
Choreographed like a military drill and intimidating AF like the Haka.
I have always thought that would be a great choice for us, but at home games only.
Would definitely get our fans involved!
Others might remember it too.
 

SaintsSeptember

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The normal way to build up is bring in bulk kids, play them together, fill the gaps with some missing pieces through trades and FA and have a crack. We have culled the list, replaced with the top ups that you usually take while in challenge mode and are now topping up with kids.

It has the danger of being a middling list with no youth coming through and a bunch of GOPs who are too old to do much with. Essendon and Carlton have followed similar top up models and with Essendon it was going hard at top end youth that seems to have made the biggest difference. Fremantle is more the traditional model of rebuild where they carry over a few older players and top up heavily with youth.
When you say normal, you mean the 2002 draft, which is not normal.
 

austinnn

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Were you living in Melbourne in 97?
If you were, did you get down to Moorabbin for the last training run?
Thousands were there.
The team ran out then faced the Grandstand and then Stan took them through a haka style warm up.
The crowd went crazy.
He’d pinched it from the US Marines from memory.
Choreographed like a military drill and intimidating AF like the Haka.
I have always thought that would be a great choice for us, but at home games only.
Would definitely get our fans involved!
Others might remember it too.
Yes I was. I did go to a training run the week before GF, not sure which day. I remember it being big though. That was my first full year of properly following the footy, went to quite a few games, didn't really have much experience to compare it to though, so perhaps didn't appreciate how big it was at the time. Don't remember the haka, but i've heard about it since. Not sure if the players would expose themselves like that nowadays. Great idea from Stan, but it didn't end up helping the '97 team much in the end.
I would hate for something as intense and culturally meaningful as the haka to be met with derision and indifference by the fat beer-swilling peanuts in the crowd, tittering away at their funny faces and whatnot.
 

austinnn

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Would the Liverpool players really have appreciated and understood that welcome?
How could you not? I guess they saw it for what it was, a rare opportunity for international Reds fans on the other side of their planet to actually watch a live match. I doubt the players took the actual match itself seriously but they must have loved the crowd!
 

PlayerNumber9

Number 9
Mar 6, 2017
75
330
AFL Club
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Yeah, we'd all choose a flag, not 1 person arguing otherwise, but 5 years ago, we were one of the worst clubs on and off-field wise, in Seaford, couldn't get staff and the players hated the joint.
Moorabbin is a tool, you are right, but it's a tool that's helped attract staff AND players, even the journalists get out there for training nowadays.

So in the last 3 years since we've got Moorabbin sorted as a home base, we've significantly reorganized the footy dept, managed to trade in players who we couldn't have dreamed of earlier, where at Seaford we had portables behind the main building for offices and facilities, we've managed to house an entire team worth of women's facilities within the main building, a grandstand, soon to be a pool and extended indoor facilities.

Gringo called it soulless earlier and maybe he's right, I'd love to see a bit more StKilda. A statue of Barker and Frawley out the front door, a little more spirit( very hard to capture though) But as a workplace, no comparison, and that's the point.

also to note that we play AFL(preseason) AFLW and VFL(some games) all at Moorabbin.

But the Pies, Hawks, Essendon, Melbourne have all changed bases in the last 20 years without losing the essence of what they are.
Anyone who’s saying they don’t feel a connection to Moorabbin needs to get down there for a game sometime - either AFLW or JLT. It is different to the ‘old’ days, but it’s still a wonderful experience. I love getting down to see the girls, and I’m coming from the other side of town.


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