WHERE ARE WE AT? WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

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12kilos

Club Legend
Sep 25, 2014
1,028
698
AFL Club
Collingwood
Hi everyone, i thought i would just put it out there .
Buckley and the match commitee have been quite conservative in team selection for the first 3 rounds.
Do we persist with the same players finish between 8th to 11th roughly , with no chance of being an impact team in the finals IF we make it.
Also concerning many of the players in our team in the first 3 rounds due to age/form are heading at a downward spiral.
J Thomas, Mayne , WHE , Roughead ad Greenwood to that list he will get a game in the next week or 2.
Great servants like Pendels, Sidebittom Howe Elliot have peaked , and have 2 maybe 3 years left?
Its time in my opinion to reset asap , give players like Wilson Keane Tohill Rantall Bianco Ruscoe ganes .
I would give the first year players a few vfl ganes first, then eventually late April early May give them senior games also.
Many of the players being selected in the first 3 rounds are taking us no where its time to bite the bullet start a rebuild hopefully in 3 years time players Like Moore Grundy Daicos boys Quanor Kelly can take us to the promise land.
Personallly i think its a great time to rebuild players like Pendels Sidebittom Howe Elliot who still have something to offer can help the kids.
 

chop_me

Club Legend
May 8, 2007
1,100
368
Hong Kong
AFL Club
Collingwood
Hi everyone, i thought i would just put it out there .
Buckley and the match commitee have been quite conservative in team selection for the first 3 rounds.
Do we persist with the same players finish between 8th to 11th roughly , with no chance of being an impact team in the finals IF we make it.
Also concerning many of the players in our team in the first 3 rounds due to age/form are heading at a downward spiral.
J Thomas, Mayne , WHE , Roughead ad Greenwood to that list he will get a game in the next week or 2.
Great servants like Pendels, Sidebittom Howe Elliot have peaked , and have 2 maybe 3 years left?
Its time in my opinion to reset asap , give players like Wilson Keane Tohill Rantall Bianco Ruscoe ganes .
I would give the first year players a few vfl ganes first, then eventually late April early May give them senior games also.
Many of the players being selected in the first 3 rounds are taking us no where its time to bite the bullet start a rebuild hopefully in 3 years time players Like Moore Grundy Daicos boys Quanor Kelly can take us to the promise land.
Personallly i think its a great time to rebuild players like Pendels Sidebittom Howe Elliot who still have something to offer can help the kids.
Optimistically, I see us finishing no higher then 7th or 8th this year.

I would like to see us swap this type of final replacement with the rebuilding project too. 2-4 young guys in the team at any one time would be nice.



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No SPIN

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 14, 2009
6,227
5,072
Vic
AFL Club
Collingwood
Hi everyone, i thought i would just put it out there .
Buckley and the match commitee have been quite conservative in team selection for the first 3 rounds.
Do we persist with the same players finish between 8th to 11th roughly , with no chance of being an impact team in the finals IF we make it.
Also concerning many of the players in our team in the first 3 rounds due to age/form are heading at a downward spiral.
J Thomas, Mayne , WHE , Roughead ad Greenwood to that list he will get a game in the next week or 2.
Great servants like Pendels, Sidebittom Howe Elliot have peaked , and have 2 maybe 3 years left?
Its time in my opinion to reset asap , give players like Wilson Keane Tohill Rantall Bianco Ruscoe ganes .
I would give the first year players a few vfl ganes first, then eventually late April early May give them senior games also.
Many of the players being selected in the first 3 rounds are taking us no where its time to bite the bullet start a rebuild hopefully in 3 years time players Like Moore Grundy Daicos boys Quanor Kelly can take us to the promise land.
Personallly i think its a great time to rebuild players like Pendels Sidebittom Howe Elliot who still have something to offer can help the kids.
Buckley wants another contract and will Coach, just like any Coach in the last year of a contract.
Therefore he will try to maximise wins and ladder position, which means giving priority to experience and team cohesion.
Consequently there will be minimum experimentation and kids will only be given games if they show excellent form in the VFL or if injuries hit.

what you are suggesting will not happen IMO.
 

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
22,465
30,680
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
Buckley wants another contract and will Coach, just like any Coach in the last year of a contract.
Therefore he will try to maximise wins and ladder position, which means giving priority to experience and team cohesion.
Consequently there will be minimum experimentation and kids will only be given games if they show excellent form in the VFL or if injuries hit.

what you are suggesting will not happen IMO.
I think that's the way to go anyway. There's a ridiculous amount of impatience going on here.

Would Sidey have had a better career if we debuted him before Round 7 of his draft year?
Would Quaynor be tracking any better if we played him from day dot?
 

Timmy from Thomastown

TheBrownDog
May 25, 2006
56,512
32,135
Beach
AFL Club
Collingwood
I think that's the way to go anyway. There's a ridiculous amount of impatience going on here.

Would Sidey have had a better career if we debuted him before Round 7 of his draft year?
Would Quaynor be tracking any better if we played him from day dot?
Imagine how good Pendles could have been!! His career didnt start until round 10!!!
 

Carringbush2010

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 6, 2016
11,419
7,040
Perth
AFL Club
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Other Teams
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WTF is going on here?, the amount of wish for bringing in unused kids for 'development' is insane. Not just this thread, all threads on the Pies board.

Development means developing where you develop best - not the top elite standard, so yes VFL, 2nd tier, develop the kids there. They're not fargin robots, throwing them in the cauldron in 'hope' for a miracle season is akin to throwing them under the bus. Throw em in too early and you could damage their confidence permanently.

Do we really wanna do that?

Look I get the frustration of looking at floating aimlessly mid table for years coz all of our so so hacks aren't getting better but getting older, and yes that means accepting we've thrown another window out the window, time for a regen I get it. But what some are suggesting is throwing the baby out with the bathwater type desperation.

I know it's not much and it really burns but the one positive we can look forward to IS game development and player development, that means give the kids time to flourish in the magoos and the ones experiment with game - that's most simplistic way I can put it. And the quickest way to get back to contention.

I couldn't catch the game last night coz I was flying home from work at the time, the result is we lost, meh don't care SO LONG AS the game and structure of our team is moving in a positive direction. - I'll watch the replay and give my two bob on the right thread.
 

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Jelly Bean

Premiership Player
Dec 12, 2010
3,872
3,190
AFL Club
Collingwood
This has flow on effects to our FA attraction.

Even though we have salary room to pursue a Merrett/Bont/etc, not many elite players choose to go to clubs that are on the way down and with a list that isn't particularly young and promising (even if we offer more $$$). If it looked like we had a list that would be in and amongst the finals over the next few years it is better, but at this point we still project to be trending downwards for the next few years given our poor return from first round draft picks over the last 5 years.
 

12kilos

Club Legend
Sep 25, 2014
1,028
698
AFL Club
Collingwood
We temporarily learned from our mistake though. Debuting Peter Yagmoor in the first game of his first year at the club was an inspired decision that maximised his development.
In any rebuild mate every club has debuted players that are not up to it like Yangmmor.
But on the flip side that is how you find your next bunch of kids that will play 200 games
Thats how it works.
 

12kilos

Club Legend
Sep 25, 2014
1,028
698
AFL Club
Collingwood
Buckley wants another contract and will Coach, just like any Coach in the last year of a contract.
Therefore he will try to maximise wins and ladder position, which means giving priority to experience and team cohesion.
Consequently there will be minimum experimentation and kids will only be given games if they show excellent form in the VFL or if injuries hit.

what you are suggesting will not happen IMO.
I think you a right mate it wont happen.
Buckley in my opinion would gain more credablity if he played the kids even if the team bottomed out becouse of this.
 

Aussie pie

All Australian
Jul 29, 2017
874
1,630
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
76ers
Hi everyone, i thought i would just put it out there .
Buckley and the match commitee have been quite conservative in team selection for the first 3 rounds.
Do we persist with the same players finish between 8th to 11th roughly , with no chance of being an impact team in the finals IF we make it.
Also concerning many of the players in our team in the first 3 rounds due to age/form are heading at a downward spiral.
J Thomas, Mayne , WHE , Roughead ad Greenwood to that list he will get a game in the next week or 2.
Great servants like Pendels, Sidebittom Howe Elliot have peaked , and have 2 maybe 3 years left?
Its time in my opinion to reset asap , give players like Wilson Keane Tohill Rantall Bianco Ruscoe ganes .
I would give the first year players a few vfl ganes first, then eventually late April early May give them senior games also.
Many of the players being selected in the first 3 rounds are taking us no where its time to bite the bullet start a rebuild hopefully in 3 years time players Like Moore Grundy Daicos boys Quanor Kelly can take us to the promise land.
Personallly i think its a great time to rebuild players like Pendels Sidebittom Howe Elliot who still have something to offer can help the kids.
The only one I disagree with is Roughead. He’s a solid defender with size and the ability to pinch hit in the Ruck in an emergency. He’s the type that you keep around while building a side. We have skilful talented backmen, he’s the rock. He played very well last night.
 

Buckley is my hero

Club Legend
Jul 13, 2007
1,211
1,183
Elwood
AFL Club
Collingwood
WTF is going on here?, the amount of wish for bringing in unused kids for 'development' is insane. Not just this thread, all threads on the Pies board.

Development means developing where you develop best - not the top elite standard, so yes VFL, 2nd tier, develop the kids there. They're not fargin robots, throwing them in the cauldron in 'hope' for a miracle season is akin to throwing them under the bus. Throw em in too early and you could damage their confidence permanently.

Do we really wanna do that?

Look I get the frustration of looking at floating aimlessly mid table for years coz all of our so so hacks aren't getting better but getting older, and yes that means accepting we've thrown another window out the window, time for a regen I get it. But what some are suggesting is throwing the baby out with the bathwater type desperation.

I know it's not much and it really burns but the one positive we can look forward to IS game development and player development, that means give the kids time to flourish in the magoos and the ones experiment with game - that's most simplistic way I can put it. And the quickest way to get back to contention.

I couldn't catch the game last night coz I was flying home from work at the time, the result is we lost, meh don't care SO LONG AS the game and structure of our team is moving in a positive direction. - I'll watch the replay and give my two bob on the right thread.
The answer is if you’re good enough the earlier you’re played the better you become and the club reaps the benefit. That’s been the history of the last 120 years of Aussie Rules football, but by all means invent any number of reasons why we shouldn’t be selecting youth in the team, particularly at this junction when the team is treading water.
 

12kilos

Club Legend
Sep 25, 2014
1,028
698
AFL Club
Collingwood
WTF is going on here?, the amount of wish for bringing in unused kids for 'development' is insane. Not just this thread, all threads on the Pies board.

Development means developing where you develop best - not the top elite standard, so yes VFL, 2nd tier, develop the kids there. They're not fargin robots, throwing them in the cauldron in 'hope' for a miracle season is akin to throwing them under the bus. Throw em in too early and you could damage their confidence permanently.

Do we really wanna do that?

Look I get the frustration of looking at floating aimlessly mid table for years coz all of our so so hacks aren't getting better but getting older, and yes that means accepting we've thrown another window out the window, time for a regen I get it. But what some are suggesting is throwing the baby out with the bathwater type desperation.

I know it's not much and it really burns but the one positive we can look forward to IS game development and player development, that means give the kids time to flourish in the magoos and the ones experiment with game - that's most simplistic way I can put it. And the quickest way to get back to contention.

I couldn't catch the game last night coz I was flying home from work at the time, the result is we lost, meh don't care SO LONG AS the game and structure of our team is moving in a positive direction. - I'll watch the replay and give my two bob on the right thread.
WTF? We have too many holes weaknesses in our list.
Many of the 25 or 26 players Buckley persists with are in there late 20s or 30s and are just going on a downhill spiral.
Our perfomances since 2018 are getting worse, we have the most players 29 yrs and over, out of any afl team.
Do you really think we should persist with Mayne, Greenwood, WHE , Thomas , Madgen , Roughead? just to name a few.
Have these players have any upside?
If we play the kids we have enough experience in Howe Sidey, Pendels Elliot to show them the ropes.
Players like Grundy Moore and Adams also play leadership roles
 
Last edited:

Collingwoodity

Norm Smith Medallist
May 29, 2008
9,010
7,260
Australia
AFL Club
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SS Lazio
I think that's the way to go anyway. There's a ridiculous amount of impatience going on here.

Would Sidey have had a better career if we debuted him before Round 7 of his draft year?
Would Quaynor be tracking any better if we played him from day dot?
Individual progression is not what the OP is on about. He is talking about a cultural shift toward rebuilding. Personally would love to see one or more youngsters play next week in place of underperforming players.

In furtherance of your point of playing the best team for the now, based on form, it is still meritorious to play youngsters in lieu of underperforming “seasoned” players like WHE etc.
 

Collingwoodity

Norm Smith Medallist
May 29, 2008
9,010
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Sack Buckely. Bottom out, accumulate early draft picks and rebuild list. Hire a stooge coach who can develop players. Blame a few years of poor results on said stooge. Break open the bank to lure one of the elite established coaches after the initial rebuild phase.
Bold and courageous. Not gonna happen at Collingwood.
 

Collingwoodity

Norm Smith Medallist
May 29, 2008
9,010
7,260
Australia
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
SS Lazio
This has flow on effects to our FA attraction.

Even though we have salary room to pursue a Merrett/Bont/etc, not many elite players choose to go to clubs that are on the way down and with a list that isn't particularly young and promising (even if we offer more $$$). If it looked like we had a list that would be in and amongst the finals over the next few years it is better, but at this point we still project to be trending downwards for the next few years given our poor return from first round draft picks over the last 5 years.
Bont?! The only reason for him to move to Collingwood is so that he doesn’t need to drive across town to Footscray from his home in Kew. If Dandrews builds west-east link he will not come.
 

magpie_marty

Premium Platinum
Apr 30, 2017
4,863
5,525
AFL Club
Collingwood
We evolve and rebuild it's going to take time,
What do we need you may ask?
Tall forwards and smart smalls that kick goals.
A knew midfield with pace and skills.
An eye on our older defense players to be replaced.
Please Santa.
 

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