Analysis Where does Buddy Franklin rank amongst the greats?

Buddy's rank of all time players


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HairyO

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Franklin will be remembered the same as brereton.
If you were around to see him, you'll tell stories about him.
He won't rate amongst the greats in 30 years though

Depends. The value of forwards seems to be in decline. He could well be the last player to kick 100 goals in a season, so will be talked about forever.

Reminds me. I should go post in the Joe Danniher next 100 goal forward thread :)
 

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craffles

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If we are talking purely about entertaining to watch forwards Tony Modra is life.

Him and Buddy are / were an absolute joy to watch
 

RUNVS

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I remember being quite sceptical when Sydney signed Buddy. I though the contract was too long and the pay too high. It wasn't until a game against Port Adelaide in 2014 at the SCG when the game was in the balance and in the space of 10 minutes Buddy kicked 3 goals that almost no other player in the competition could kick that he won me over, and he completely won me over as well.
 

Happy Mastenator

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Wait, someone is aruging that Gunston was more important in finals?

Buddy was double and triple teamed whereas Gunston never saw a double team in those GF's. Unbelievable. You do your argument no favours by trotting out stupid comments like Gunston > Buddy.
 

owen87

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Not sure where you're going with this but no I don't think there will be a player who weighs over 100 kgs and at 199 cm runs like the wind , is cat like when the ball hits the ground, baulks past players at ease ,. Spins in tackles all the while dishing off handpasses to teammates , does the hard running up the field , doesn't mind tacking a bounce or two at full tilt, unloading on one step from 70m from any angle , kicking all sorts of goals from any area of the Frwd half of the field and most importantly not shying away from doing the hard yards like tackling, chasing or getting to the loose ball before most others!!! The kitbag is full mate.

KPF's have been getting taller and taller, we'll almost certainly see a player who's taller and more athletic than Franklin at some point.
 

Happy Mastenator

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KPF's have been getting taller and taller, we'll almost certainly see a player who's taller and more athletic than Franklin at some point.
Yeah, it's the natural progression. In due course people will look back and question whether Franklin could have cut it going against Full Backs and Center Half Backs that are 205cm+ and super athletic. Just like Dunstall, Lockett and co are far too short to play key position in todays game.
 

owen87

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Yeah, it's the natural progression. In due course people will look back and question whether Franklin could have cut it going against Full Backs and Center Half Backs that are 205cm+ and super athletic. Just like Dunstall, Lockett and co are far too short to play key position in todays game.

Agreed, people underestimate how the game moves and changes, especially when it comes to the size and athleticism of the players.

Franklin would have been a ruckman once upon a time, Polly Farmer would be a midfielder or medium sized KPP in the modern era.

Dangerfield is a great example, if you picked him up and dropped him in a past era, he'd absolutely monster sides given his size and athleticism.
 

Angak

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KPF's have been getting taller and taller, we'll almost certainly see a player who's taller and more athletic than Franklin at some point.
Human evolution suggets that we will see a player more athletic, taller and with better skills. in saying that none of current crop of youngsters have the buddy factor as far I can see.
 

catscollector

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Human evolution suggets that we will see a player more athletic, taller and with better skills. in saying that none of current crop of youngsters have the buddy factor as far I can see.

Ugle-Hagan has all the traits. Just as agile as Franklin at 197cm tall.
Curnow had it all. Not sure that is the case these days after so many injury hiccups.

You are right though. Seems a player blessed with all the athleticism of a Buddy Franklin are few and far between.
 

Noidnadroj

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Without looking at his stats, I feel like 2017 was the year where he was at the high level just about every week. Since then he's been a bit up and down during the HA season but obviously at his best at the pointy end. Not sure whether that's him saving himself or whether it just isn't possible to hit those highs all the time.

Winning a 4th NS would be insane.

Not sure people realise but from 2017-2021 Dusty has the most Brownlow votes in the competition (plus he has won one). A pure H&A award and he sits number 1. In that 5-years he also has 3 x AA. And for coach’s votes in that period he sits second only to Bont.

So you could easily argue that in the last 5-years Dusty is the best H&A player in the competition. He’s certainly top few.

As for his finals record …. From 2017-2020 : 79 coach’s votes from 120 maximum…. just crazy stuff.


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Noidnadroj

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Wait, someone is aruging that Gunston was more important in finals?

Buddy was double and triple teamed whereas Gunston never saw a double team in those GF's. Unbelievable. You do your argument no favours by trotting out stupid comments like Gunston > Buddy.

Gunston has been a better player in Grand Finals than Buddy, averaging 3-goals to Buddy’s 2.2.

Buddy’s overall finals record is superior, averaging 2.88 goals to 2.33 across all finals.

Of course you take Buddy over Gunston every day of the week, but it’s hard to argue that Gunston has not performed marginally better on GF day.


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owen87

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Human evolution suggets that we will see a player more athletic, taller and with better skills. in saying that none of current crop of youngsters have the buddy factor as far I can see.

2016 / 2017 Daniher looked like he might have 'it', had all the physical tools required but just didn't make it to be anything special.

For all the criticism of Buddy, he's actually worked very hard to be as good as he is. There's guys with the raw potential that won't make the most of it.
 

Guardian Hawk

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Does this mean Lloyd is up with the greats?

View attachment 1298822

On the next tier IMO.

There is the all time greats group - Carey, Lockett, Hudson, Ablett, Coleman, Coventry, Dunstall and now Franklin.

and then the next tier of "generational talents" - Lloyd, Wade, Quinlan, Kernahan, etc.

The gap is there and isn't too hard to see if you look closer between Franklin and Lloyd.

Franklin has been All Australian 8 times, Lloyd 5.
Franklin, despite playing further up the ground much more often has more Coleman medals (4 v 3).
Franklin will end up with 100+ goals more than Lloyd (in an era of lower tallies and again, despite playing further up)
Franklin has twice as many Brownlow votes
Franklin has more big finals, more flags (FWIW) and is capable of things that Lloyd is not.
Lloyd averaged 15 disposals for one season of his career, Franklin has done it for 10 (emphasising his influence outside of goals)
Franklin has nearly triple the amount of tackles.

The last two are part of the changes of the modern game but also illustrate the non goal contributions of Franklin as this part of the game has gone significantly the other way (much lower individual goal tallies). Lloyd was an incedible player in his own right and deserves to be ranked high enough on all time lists but Franklin has the edge and is elevated to the "greatest of all time" convo as per this thread whilst I don't think Lloyd is.
 

Happy Mastenator

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2016 / 2017 Daniher looked like he might have 'it', had all the physical tools required but just didn't make it to be anything special.

For all the criticism of Buddy, he's actually worked very hard to be as good as he is. There's guys with the raw potential that won't make the most of it.
Buddy got a lot of grief for his partying ways early in his career, but he's now at 300+ career games, and a chance at 350+ by the time he's done. The longevity and consistency of performance over that time can't be discounted. There's a good chance that when he's done only a handful of key positoin players would have played more games, Madden, Goodes, Pav, Fletcher, and Roos
 

lumpinee

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Wait, someone is aruging that Gunston was more important in finals?

Buddy was double and triple teamed whereas Gunston never saw a double team in those GF's. Unbelievable. You do your argument no favours by trotting out stupid comments like Gunston > Buddy.
:tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: try explaining this ridiculousness to the Hawks faithfull,nah nah,Roughead n Gunston n Mitchell n Hodge were better:astonished::astonished::astonished: i guess the grapes are still sour
with em
 

sr36

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Hudson closer to Dunstall. Clinical in how they played. Lead, mark, goal. Lead, mark, goal. But would handball or kick to a teammate if they didnt think they would kick it.

Unlike Lloyd who would always take the shot. He cost Essendon as many games as he won them. The talk always was that his contract was heavily linked to his goals which is why he never looked for a teammate in a better position. At least that would be a better explanation than him just being a selfish flog.

Lloyd actually had a better goal conversion rate than Dunstall and 0.2% below Hudson.
 

Superstar swan

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Split buddys career in two. First half at hawks second half at swans

Hawks : 182 games, 580 goals , 2 x coleman 4 x all australian

Sydney : 136 games, 415 goals and counting , 2 x coleman , 4 x all australian

That’s two half’s of a career that both are individually hall of fame careers.

Remarkable
 

Lego23

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Split buddys career in two. First half at hawks second half at swans

Hawks : 182 games, 580 goals , 2 x coleman 4 x all australian

Sydney : 136 games, 415 goals and counting , 2 x coleman , 4 x all australian

That’s two half’s of a career that both are individually hall of fame careers.

Remarkable
Also the fact that if you break down how he played in his early days at the Hawks was different to how he played in his last few years at the Hawks, which was again different to how he played at the Swans.

Hard to compare across eras but he is easily the best key forward of this era and one of the all time greats.
 

SSwans2011

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A joy to watch.

He is all time, such a special player. I never thought he would see out his contract at Sydney, his longevity is incredible

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And not just see out his contract, if he plays even half of next year, there's a pretty strong case to be made that he should go around again (if he wants to). I'd certainly keep him around for another year, because even if he only played half a dozen games, he has the class, skills, and smarts for it to potentially make a big difference to our season.
 

Superstar swan

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It is incredibly hard to compare players when they played so far apart.

It’s easy to say Lockett or ablett kicked more goals therefore they’re better. They also played at a time where the ff was the extreme focal point of any team. 80% of the ball would go through them when teams went forward. Yea you can say they played in an era where it was easier for defenders as they could hold more and punch the arms etc. yes buddy isn’t a great mark and that was the cornerstone skill of the locketts , Alberts and dunstall of the world. But if you could transport prime buddy into that era, there wasn’t a man alive that could stop him getting the ball,he’d put 20m on guys like sos over a 30m lead.

Impossible to compare eras
 

Superstar swan

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Personally for me the greatest ever players to play the game are buddy and gaj.

Wouldn’t argue with anyone who picked either
 

HairyO

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Lloyd actually had a better goal conversion rate than Dunstall and 0.2% below Hudson.

With the quality of balls, boots and the fields always improving, not to mention it being an actual profession, the accuracy should improve massively over time.